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LuckyTheDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:15 PM
Original message
Smooth jazz in the workplace
If my employer subjected me to smooth jazz in the workplace, would I be able to make the case that the company has created a hostile work environment? This is not a hypothetical situation. It's going to happen.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. You might, Smooth Jazz
is worse than Muzak IMO.


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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes
It would make me hostile to listen to it all day.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
36. hmm. Maybe that's what's wrong with me lately!
I listen to smooth jazz when I work and actually enjoy it!
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DarkTirade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. I would tell the boss straight up that you aren't willing to listen to that crap.
No job is worth that.

I could be getting paid a thousand bucks an hour to sit there and get blowjobs all day, and I don't think I'd be willing to put up with 'smooth jazz' even for that.
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LuckyTheDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. That won't be an option
But, for other reasons, I am already looking for a new job.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. If I were the judge, you'd have a lock-tight case. Same with Nu-Jazz, and Fusion Jazz.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'd think you'd have a damn strong case for "Inflicting Deliberate Cruelty Upon
Helpless Employees," if that's an actual crime...and if it's not, it should be.

Jesus God, how do they expect you to retain any shred of sanity after enduring an entire day of "smooth jazz?"

No sarcasm here. That's a genuine form of torture.

Redstone
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's justifiable homicide.
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. Isn't he afraid to run customers off?
:shrug:

I can't imagine any potential customer wanting hang around the shop listening to that, which is what music is supposed to do.
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. Try to sneak in some Dexter Gordon..
...if people object, bite them. Hard.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. "smooth jazz" is usually code for "SUCK".
John Tesh and Kenny G and shit like that.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Is there any more appropriate shortcut to suggest the idea of "Music that's
Guaranteed to Drive You Utterly Insane" than the pithy shortcut you suggested: "Kenny G?"

I can't think of one. How the HELL can that guy face himself in the mirror in the morning, after having inflicted so much pain on so many people?

Redstone
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I don't like to brag, but...
As a trained saxophonist, I say with confidence that I can fart better than Kenny Gorelick can play. Circular breathing and loads of pentatonic scales? Yeah, big fucking deal, Ken!

If you ever want to piss off a sax-player, compare him/her to Kenny G. Then duck.

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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'll bet that's the truth, indeed. Talent has NOTHING do do with success in
the world of music.

(Part of why I got out of that world when I was young enough to do so and find something else to do for a living.)

Redstone
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Pat Metheny on Kenny G: (long but a good read)
Kenny G is not a musician I really had much of an opinion about at all until recently. There was not much about the way he played that interested me one way or the other either live or on records.

I first heard him a number of years ago playing as a sideman with Jeff Lorber when they opened a concert for my band. My impression was that he was someone who had spent a fair amount of time listening to the more pop oriented sax players of that time, like Grover Washington or David Sanborn, but was not really an advanced player, even in that style. He had major rhythmic problems and his harmonic and melodic vocabulary was extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic based and blues-lick derived patterns, and he basically exhibited only a rudimentary understanding of how to function as a professional soloist in an ensemble - Lorber was basically playing him off the bandstand in terms of actual music.

But he did show a knack for connecting to the basest impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in them) at the key moments to elicit a powerful crowd reaction (over and over again). The other main thing I noticed was that he also, as he does to this day, played horribly out of tune - consistently sharp.

Of course, I am aware of what he has played since, the success it has had, and the controversy that has surrounded him among musicians and serious listeners. This controversy seems to be largely fueled by the fact that he sells an enormous amount of records while not being anywhere near a really great player in relation to the standards that have been set on his instrument over the past sixty or seventy years. And honestly, there is no small amount of envy involved from musicians who see one of their fellow players doing so well financially, especially when so many of them who are far superior as improvisors and musicians in general have trouble just making a living. There must be hundreds, if not thousands of sax players around the world who are simply better improvising musicians than Kenny G on his chosen instruments. It would really surprise me if even he disagreed with that statement.

Having said that, it has gotten me to thinking lately why so many jazz musicians (myself included, given the right "bait" of a question, as I will explain later) and audiences have gone so far as to say that what he is playing is not even jazz at all. Stepping back for a minute, if we examine the way he plays, especially if one can remove the actual improvising from the often mundane background environment that it is delivered in, we see that his saxophone style is in fact clearly in the tradition of the kind of playing that most reasonably objective listeners WOULD normally quantify as being jazz. It's just that as jazz or even as music in a general sense, with these standards in mind, it is simply not up to the level of playing that we historically associate with professional improvising musicians. So, lately I have been advocating that we go ahead and just include it under the word jazz - since pretty much of the rest of the world OUTSIDE of the jazz community does anyway - and let the chips fall where they may.

And after all, why he should be judged by any other standard, why he should be exempt from that that all other serious musicians on his instrument are judged by if they attempt to use their abilities in an improvisational context playing with a rhythm section as he does? He SHOULD be compared to John Coltrane or Wayne Shorter, for instance, on his abilities (or lack thereof) to play the soprano saxophone and his success (or lack thereof) at finding a way to deploy that instrument in an ensemble in order to accurately gauge his abilities and put them in the context of his instrument's legacy and potential.

As a composer of even eighth note based music, he SHOULD be compared to Herbie Hancock, Horace Silver or even Grover Washington. Suffice it to say, on all above counts, at this point in his development, he wouldn't fare well.

But, like I said at the top, this relatively benign view was all "until recently".

Not long ago, Kenny G put out a recording where he overdubbed himself on top of a 30+ year old Louis Armstrong record, the track "What a Wonderful World". With this single move, Kenny G became one of the few people on earth I can say that I really can't use at all - as a man, for his incredible arrogance to even consider such a thing, and as a musician, for presuming to share the stage with the single most important figure in our music.

This type of musical necrophilia - the technique of overdubbing on the preexisting tracks of already dead performers - was weird when Natalie Cole did it with her dad on "Unforgettable" a few years ago, but it was her dad. When Tony Bennett did it with Billie Holiday it was bizarre, but we are talking about two of the greatest singers of the 20th century who were on roughly the same level of artistic accomplishment. When Larry Coryell presumed to overdub himself on top of a Wes Montgomery track, I lost a lot of the respect that I ever had for him - and I have to seriously question the fact that I did have respect for someone who could turn out to have such unbelievably bad taste and be that disrespectful to one of my personal heroes.

But when Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis's tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined possible. He, in one move, through his unbelievably pretentious and calloused musical decision to embark on this most cynical of musical paths, shit all over the graves of all the musicians past and present who have risked their lives by going out there on the road for years and years developing their own music inspired by the standards of grace that Louis Armstrong brought to every single note he played over an amazing lifetime as a musician. By disrespecting Louis, his legacy and by default, everyone who has ever tried to do something positive with improvised music and what it can be, Kenny G has created a new low point in modern culture - something that we all should be totally embarrassed about - and afraid of. We ignore this, "let it slide", at our own peril.

His callous disregard for the larger issues of what this crass gesture implies is exacerbated by the fact that the only reason he possibly have for doing something this inherently wrong (on both human and musical terms) was for the record sales and the money it would bring.

Since that record came out - in protest, as insignificant as it may be, I encourage everyone to boycott Kenny G recordings, concerts and anything he is associated with. If asked about Kenny G, I will diss him and his music with the same passion that is in evidence in this little essay.

Normally, I feel that musicians all have a hard enough time, regardless of their level, just trying to play good and don't really benefit from public criticism, particularly from their fellow players. but, this is different.

There ARE some things that are sacred - and amongst any musician that has ever attempted to address jazz at even the most basic of levels, Louis Armstrong and his music is hallowed ground. To ignore this trespass is to agree that NOTHING any musician has attempted to do with their life in music has any intrinsic value - and I refuse to do that. (I am also amazed that there HASN'T already been an outcry against this among music critics - where ARE they on this?????!?!?!?!, magazines, etc.). Everything I said here is exactly the same as what I would say to Gorelick if I ever saw him in person. and if I ever DO see him anywhere, at any function - he WILL get a piece of my mind and (maybe a guitar wrapped around his head.)
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mainegreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. ...
:rofl:

:thumbsup:
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. All I can say is...
Brilliant.

Pat pretty much sums it up. Mr. G did an in-store appearance years ago when we opened the new branch of the record store I was working at.

I was up in front filling balloons from the helium dispenser, and one of the managers came up and said, "Fudge, you wanna come meet Kenny??!"

My response? "Do I have to??" was overheard by the artist, and he did not look pleased.

:D
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. I love this part:
"spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing"

That's Ken Gorelick in a fucking nutshell.
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Most People think "Smooth Jazz" is Jazz that is smooth.. WRONG.
It's watered down pop intrumentals that just about anybody who's ever had a music lesson, can play.

As you can till I Fucking Hate the Term Smooth Jazz...Reminds me of putting 2 words together like "Turd" and "Gold"

Wtf!!!
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Kutjara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
27. Absolutely. I think of it as...
Edited on Wed Mar-26-08 08:41 AM by Kutjara
..."musical fast food." Just like fast food, smooth jazz includes many of the components one would normally associate with the original product, but pulverized, simplified, and blandified to the extent it bears little relation to anything recognizable as authentic. It's pure lowest-common-denominator drek that fools the sort of people whose musical sensibilities are streched by the Top 40 into believing that it is "serious" music.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. sneak in some Ornette Coleman and Sun Ra!
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I've got Cecil Taylor playing right now.
:hi:
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
37. wonderful!
:hi:


I have a copy of Albert Ayler's Hilversum Sessions I got for Christmas. Some serious squonking goin on there.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
17. Smooth jazz? Hells yes.
They use that stuff to violate the Geneva Conventions, I swear.

:scared:
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Actually, it's the 'loud music' they play at detainees at Gitmo.
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Lethe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. the only people who like jazz are jazz musicians
and the same can be said for electronic
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. ...and a good number of people..
..who understand what goes into making good music. If you seriously think this, you don't know anything about jazz.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. "Smooth jazz" scarcely qualifies as sound, never mind jazz.
Jazz musicians hate smooth jazz probably the most of anyone. :D
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. I love (real, non-smooth) jazz and can't play worth shit.
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Throd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. I like it, to me it is white noise
In more ways than one...

Puns aside, when I have to crank out dry architectural drawings and details it provides the perfect backdrop for the task at hand.

When the project requires some creativity I'll play hardcore punk, death metal, gutbucket blues or psychedalia. Whatever mood is appropriate. But when I need to channel that reptilian part of my brain to blow through the dry stuff and move on to the fun stuff, KENNY G RULES BABY!
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. I'd toss the radio out the window if that were to happen.
Thank god for Ipods.
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
23. "Smooth" as in, what's produced by loose bowels.
Same effect....repulsive and stinky.
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1gobluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
26. Yes
REAL jazz is mandatory at my workplace. It probably has something to do with the fact that I work at a jazz radio station. Smooth jazz is strictly prohibited.

I once interviewed someone for my assistant's job; when I took her for a tour of the offices she said "I won't be able to work with that radio playing all day."

She didn't get the job. :rofl:
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. I wish I worked at your company.
:D
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
31. Smooth jazz is not only all right for my workplace, it's preferred.
Some people want to listen to AM right-wing radio diarrhea, others want to kill us all with their so-called "Christian" limp dishwater, boring, banal, laughable "praise" music. :puke:

I'll take smooth jazz any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
32. It's a helluva lot better than the grunge/techno/metal derivatives
It's a helluva lot better than the grunge/techno/metal derivatives some of my co-workers play. At least the jazz can be quite easily tuned out. Today's mis-version of rock-n-roll is more difficult to tune out than a baby crying in church.

Consider yourself realtively lucky...
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
33. Jazzak? Justifies carrying a concealed weapon
Hate that shite.
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B3Nut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
35. It's not as bad as much modern pop
but it's still irritating. Hmm...Kenny G or Fergie....I think I'll just jump out the window, thanks...

:D

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OmahaBlueDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-26-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
39. I prefer smooth Jazz to the "Beautiful Music" of the 60s and 70s
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