hubby is drunk again...grrrrrrrrrrrr

[greenbriar]

I hate this

[Inchworm]

1. sorry GB

Drunk and snoring I hope.

:hug:

[greenbriar]

2. no being obnoxious

I am about ready to go to bed to avoid it

[Inchworm]

5. Oh dear

I have that go on here sometimes with my brother. I close thwe door and fake sleep so I don't have to talk ..well.. listen to him repeat himself.

I'm sure I'm a handful too on occasion. I keep to myself though.. loudly. :blush:

Be safe chicky.

:hug::loveya::hug:

[Robeson]

3. Hopefully, sound asleep.

[graywarrior]

4. Get to ALA-NON. You need support.

Seriously. They can help you live through this. Don't do it on your own.

[greenbriar]

6. I am starting to think you are right...I can't do it anymore...but..if I go and he finds out...

it may make it worse for me and our daughter


It had been since Tuesday that he had not drank

[1]

7. green...

i'll be blunt with you. and i'm not going to tell you anything you don't already know.

if someone drinks, they will most likely continue to drink. a day or two means nothing, or a month or two. a very few can stop forever. a very few.

if your man chooses to walk down the road of never, ever, having a drink again then your choice is simple. i wish this for you.

but. if he ever has a drink, even just one, your choices are actually very simple.

accept the drinking (maybe even start drinking with him) or run away as fast as you can.

pack a bag, hop in the car with your daughter and drive away. forget the house, forget the possessions, forget the bills... you can take care of that later. run.

go to your family, they love you and want to support you even if you think they do not. don't be ashamed. you will be pleasantly surprised. it will be better.

i may be wrong. but i don't think so...

[KC]

63. You are so right

!!!!!!!

[elleng]

10. It will get worse,

whether you go or not, whether he finds out or not.

If he's SO not willing to face it, that's a signal that it will just get worse.

As hard as it sounds, I agree with CasualWatcher; one way or another, get out. Your daughter will understand, especially if she is old enough to have recognized the problem.

And there is the possibility that once you're gone, he'll agree to seek help to stop. If he does, grab it.

Believe me; I know.

(((gb)))

[michreject]

56. That don't work

And there is the possibility that once you're gone, he'll agree to seek help to stop. If he does, grab it.

It's all a con game to the person that's drinking. You can't stop for someone else. You have to want to stop for yourself and only yourself. Otherwise there's resentment and the drinking starts again.

I've been there. Sober for 13 years.

[elleng]

59. Congratulations for your 13 year sobriety, michr.

You're correct; I didn't go into the details about why he might stop 'after you're gone.'

If after your absence he feels he's hit bottom, has nothing else, might help him recognize he has to change things. Might then recognize that he is alcoholic (self-diagnose) and needs help.

Sorry about all the 'ifs.' Its a terrible disease.

[greenbriar]

60. I have thought about that

One night, I almost a bottle and our wedding picture side by side and then was planning to leave, but he woke up and I chickened out

[elleng]

62. IMO the best way to do it

is to discuss things when he's sober, like in the morning, and tell him that if he doesn't stop, you will leave because of his behaviors etc. A peaceful, sober conversation.

Just leaving, without making the connection, won't do.

[FloridaJudy]

11. *Not* going will make it worse for both of you

As a sober alcoholic I can tell you no one will stop drinking until he or she wants to. You can't sober him up, his boss can't, his other family can't. What's important is to protect yourself and your daughter until either he gets serious about stopping drinking, or you give up the relationship as a lost cause. Alanon can teach you ways to do that.

And if that involves leaving either temporarily or permanently, so be it. Your daughter's safety should be your primary concern, and it's not safe having a small child around a practicing alcoholic.

[graywarrior]

14. That's what happens when one person in the family starts to get healthy

It spreads through the rest of the family and sometimes it ain't pretty. Your daughter needs ALA-teen, and eventually, Adult Childrens of Alcoholics meetings to grasp what you're both dealing with. Otherwise, she's going to be one messed up little girl filled with guilt and shame.

You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it--that's ALA-NON. Trust me, you will never feel so accepted and supported. Don't let your husbands disease infect you and keep you away from the help you need. You need to take care of yourself and your daughter.

[Sweet Freedom]

20. Alcoholics are alcoholics even when they're not drinking

It took me forever to figure that out, but it's true. My STBE acts like an alcoholic (the ridiculous mountain-out-of-molehill, nothing-is-ever-my-fault, you-have-to-have-sex-with-me-to-relieve-my-stress rage) even when he's not drinking. He claims he hasn't had a drink in over a month, but he's still an abusive a**hole.

Your SO can stop drinking until the cows come home, but unless he understands and accepts the reason why he drinks, it won't change him.

[Blue_In_AK]

26. You are so right about that.

My ex quit for five years, and was still an asshole in just the ways you describe. I tried to hang in there with him because I felt like I owed it to him since he was clean, but when he started drinking again, that was it for me. I wasn't going to go through all that bullshit again, no way. Getting out of that 20-year relationship was the best thing I ever did for myself.

[Sweet Freedom]

41. I think everyone who goes through a breakup

with an alcoholic or abuser can honestly say it was the best thing they ever did for themselves. For a while, I felt so guilty, but now, I see how much of me had been lost, and how wonderful each day is, that nothing could make me go back to that type of relationship. Evah.

I'm glad you took that step as well. :hug:

[Connonym]

51. that's interesting

that's exactly the kind of behavior my ex used to do. He wasn't a drinker but his parents and twin brother are all alcoholic. I've always sort of had this feeling about my ex that he had the behavior patterns of an alcoholic without the alcohol. I wonder if that's a common thing.

[Sweet Freedom]

57. Maybe growing up in that environment

taught him that behavior? I know my STBE's mother and brother all act the same way as well. (Well, at least the ridiculous rage part, I can't vouch for the sex demands :P )

[TomBall Democrat]

22. There are online Al Anon meetings -

BTW, what happens at an AlAnon meeting stays there.

Unless you tell him.

[Orsino]

24. If you fear something worse, please get free.

At least free enough so that you can get help unafraid.

Perhaps things have to get worse, in some ways, but please don't let him keep you from doing what's right for you and your kid. Please, please, please don't let him keep you from seeking support.

[applegrove]

58. You and your daughter need the support. Why not tell him outright you

are going.

[RainDog]

19. graywarrior is speaking wisdom to you

no one here can or should tell you what to do about your situation. You will have to figure that out on your own. You cannot make your husband drink or not drink. He will decide that on his own.

You cannot make him react in one way or another. He will react based upon his own decisions.

If you live with an alcoholic, your thinking can get distorted because you may try to "force" solutions and then face all sorts of other issues when you cannot force the solution you want.

If your husband is working to become a non-drinking alcoholic, he would really benefit from AA, so I've heard from every alcoholic I've ever known who stopped drinking. If you live with or love an alcoholic, you and any family members can benefit from Al-Anon - this I know from experience. Not to say that I'm not still all messed up six ways from Sunday... when you stop trying to fix an alcoholic, you come face to face with yourself and your stuff.

I've never had a problem with alcohol. I could care less if I took a drink again (and when I was living with an alcoholic who was in recovery, I stopped drinking for 14 years to make life easier for him. To start drinking with your hub isn't sound advice, imo. Now that I am not with the alcoholic in my life, I drink sometimes, but I have pale ale and wine in my fridge that have been there for months and months..... I would never have done that while living with an alcoholic. --But I still have my own problems or issues, or whatever.

So, if I were you, I'd look at ways in which I could make myself healthier. I'm much better at talking the talk than walking the walk, of course.

[BarenakedLady]

8. I'm sorry

:hug:

take care of yourself and your girl.

[BarenakedLady]

9. dupe

delete.

[Ptah]

12. Get on the bus, Gus

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. ~

that looks like a train to me.

[Ptah]

30. jump that train, Lorraine

Cross that bridge, Midge

[Redstone]

45. And drop off they key, Lee. You're giving good advice here.

Not that I've taken such advice myself when I should have, but you're offering good advice nonetheless.

Redstone

[hobbit709]

15. Get out NOW!

I grew up with an alcoholic father. My mother put up with it for years "for the sake of us kids". She finally got fed up after I left home and divorced him. Speaking from experience, putting up with it for the kids is the worst thing you can do to the kids. Your daughter's health and well-being is the most important thing in this. I can guarantee you that if you don't get her out of this situation that it will mess up her head for a long time.
Been there and done that.

[Haole Girl]

16. This thread made me cry

Sometimes, often, I wish I could be an alcoholic. I envy the way they can escape reality. I envy the way they numb themselves. But your thread, greenbriar, made me glad I'm not... and it reminded me what my grandparents did to my mother. Both of them (both grandparents on my mother's side) were alcoholics. My mother was, according to a counselor I saw, a co-dependent. You know, I don't believe co-dependent is a strong enough word. My mother was messed up, plain and simple...just messed up. In many ways, I am too. The damage becomes irreparable. All I can do...all any of us can do who read through your threads about your husband....is hope you'll find the strength you need to deal with the situation. You have a daughter to think of. It's not just yourself. And I believe you know what you have to do. All the money in the world won't fix your daughter if she gets messed up by your husband's alcoholism. And, from all you've written, he definitely sounds like an alcoholic.

I'm sorry if this sounds judgmental. Some day, hopefully not to far away, I hope you'll take steps toward healing your hurt...and your daughters hurt. I would hate to see that pain turn inward, for either you or your daughter.

One observation about alcoholism: It's always amazed me how long it can go on. Both my grandparents drank until the day they died (one lived until 72 and one until 84) They left dozens, if not hundreds, of victims in their wake. Does that make sense? I'm sorry if I'm rambling.

Please take the advice people are giving you. At the very least, attend the meetings in your area.

here is a link: http://www.al-anonfamilygroups.org/meetings/meeting.html

Many hugs to you...
:hug: :hug: :hug:

[NC_Nurse]

17. Been there, done that....get thee to Al-Anon! It REALLY helps!

:hug:

[NJmaverick]

18. How is he when he is sober?

Can you talk to him about his drinking problem? Can you talk him into doing something about it?

[SPKrazy]

21. Others have said Alanon

I agree

getting out if he is violent or could be is important

I don't know how life would be worse, but it might not be as bad as it might be if you stay there.

Alanon won't stop him from drinking but it will help you change that within yourself that keeps you there and help you detach from his problem.

Eye opening thinking about this actually.

Sorry, but thanks also

:hug:

[Raven]

23. I have a very good friend whose husband has this problem.

He runs a very successful company and does not drink on the job but begins the minute he gets home. On the weekends he starts at 9 am and is passed out by 3 pm. He is a great guy when he's sober and very verbally abusive and physically threatening when he drinks. She handles all the details of their lives and his business because he can't.

She loves this man very much and hates the thought of leaving him. But she has begun to get counselling on her own and now she has her bag packed and money set aside and a place to go if she leaves. It took her a long time to get to the place that she is at. She had to set aside her own guilt and realize that only he can solve his problem. It took baby steps and you need to start taking those steps.

[Blue_In_AK]

25. Oh, GreenBriar, I am so sorry...

I went through this with my first three husbands (some of us are slow learners), and it just sucks. My most recent ex was the absolute worst. I wouldn't go back to that for anything. I know it's difficult, but try to take care of yourself and your child, and DON'T RESCUE HIM. He needs to really feel the pain if (and it's a big if) he's ever going to stop.

[mikita]

27. it worries me for you

that you have aired this so publicly, including pictures. I presume your DH doesn't access DU, but someone who knows someone might. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but still... Please take care. And best of luck. It appears you've gotten some great advice from others who've been this sad path.

:hug:

[PeaceNikki]

28. Yeah. I don't understand this at all.

Publicly airing the ups and downs, stating that she'd be filing for divorce if not for the money and then boasting about going on/planning cruises with him.

Perhaps figuring it out and either getting out or going for counseling is in order. But publicly airing the details of the difficulties could yield some rather undesirable results for all parties involved.

[greenbriar]

46. yea well I am so glad your world is black and white but I am pretty sure most others are not

I find it easier to share good and bad with my friends here and not have to worry about family and watching their opinions of my husband change.


My husband loves me and most times we have a normal life, but when he drinks things get really rough.


if you don't like my threads or my worries, then don't worry about me and do not post on my threads.

I find your following me and my postings disturbing and tiring.

[Sugar Smack]

29. Well, this is the first & last thing I'm going to say about your situation.

Someone described the definition of "insanity" as doing the same thing over & over and expecting different results. I know about that first hand, believe me. Maybe you can play the same number in the lotto and finally win, but that's the only exception I can think of.

I think we can all safely assume your husband's an alcoholic. He has a terrible problem; drinking excessively to the extent that it harms himself & his family. And when I say "we can all assume", I'm talking about the 700 or so people (acquaintances, friends, complete strangers) who viewed this thread since you posted it. You can multiply that number by the threads you've posted on the subject. If you're not somewhat alarmed by this, I don't know what to tell you.

I wish you well. This is so seriously painful for you and all of your family.

I would bear in mind that he cannot stop drinking without professional help and/or AA. It hurts you and your daughter. You've tried to help him in your own way. People in the Lounge have given you tons of caring and well thought-out advice and/or sympathy. They're gifts. But what you do with it is in your hands, now. If this sounds harsh, I'm sorry. But the situation itself is harsh and can only be helped professionally.

Take care, greenbriar. I wish you and your daughter peace. I hope your husband gets the help he needs.

[LeftyFingerPop]

31. Life is not as black and white as what we read in a post.

We are here for support, not criticism.

It is no skin off our nose to provide support.

We don't know the whole story.

She could write a 10,000 page post on the subject, and we still would not know the whole story.

[PeaceNikki]

32. And I would argue that sometimes support IS criticism

Sometimes the proper guidance of how to deal with a difficult situation is very difficult to hear.

[LeftyFingerPop]

33. And I would argue that the implied harshness in the post that I responded to...

was out of place for such a difficult and complicated situation.

[PeaceNikki]

34. Well, mark me down as disagreeing with you.

Having lived through and gotten out of a situation very similar to that described by the OP, I can tell you that a swift kick in the ass MUCH more harsh than the post to which you responded is likely needed.

Platitudes and hugs get you through the day, but don't get you out of the situation.

[LeftyFingerPop]

35. I'm not talking about platitudes and hugs...

I think "paper hugs" sometimes even make you feel worse, rather than better.

What I am saying is this.

Having some people on the internet telling her to get out of the situation will probably not do much good. Gentle encouragement for her and her husband to both seek help probably will, but only when she knows in her heart that it is time to do so.

Criticizing her for posting about her cruises is counter-productive.

Diagnosing her husband as being an alcoholic because he drinks to excess may or may not be correct.

What if he is a binge drinker, but not a classic alcoholic?

What if he is in a fit of clinical depression, does not realize it, and is drinking to self medicate?

What if some repressed memories are surfacing from his childhood, and he is drinking to forget them?

We walk on a very slippery slope when we start to diagnose on the internet based on a one sided story.

Does she need help? Does her husband need help? Yes, it appears so...but that is really all we know.

We are getting one side of the story, and that is all. Dynamics are complicated...and the situation she is in may or may not bear little resemblance to anyone else's situation.

[greenbriar]

40. thank you

obviously, I am having issues

but it seemed like here was a good place to vent and bounce ideas and issues off each other without fear of reprocussions in the real life.


I have no one in real life to talk to with out serious drama unfolding.


I love my husband, I just hate what he does


so ... while trying to have a normal life, I get frustrated with issues

but deep down, I don't want to leave even tho sometimes I really think I do.


When he is sober, he is the kindest awesome guy,

he loves me, I know he does


so...yes while I am trying to have a normal life...ie planning for vacations ect...that are months away, I get really frustrated at the day to day issues that just about drive me crazy.


I also am aware that he could stumble onto these posts and if that happened.....


but when I vent or ask advice here, it helps me to survive

[hippywife]

47. I didn't find Sugar Smack's post harsh at all.

It sounded like she was saying what she honestly felt in a very calm manner and wishing the OP the best in figuring out her situation. I really doubt that Sugar even has it in her to be harsh in such a situation. And this is from someone who's maybe talked to her twice in all the time I've been here but have read many posts by many people here.

[LeftyFingerPop]

48. If you read the OP's recent responses, it looks like she found it...

to be harsh. And when someone says "if this sounds harsh, then I am sorry"...then the intent is harshness.

Anyway, that's not my real point. My point is that things like this are too complicated and dynamic to be solved here.

Many people have suggested that she leave her husband. People that have no skin in her game, and can walk away from their computer after they say that, while the OP lives with the consequences.

I would assume that the OP is trying to figure out right now if her life would be worse without him.

[hippywife]

49. I agree that people should

not seek advice here for such life-changing or threatening situations. None of us really knows what goes on in someone's life. It's usually their perception of what is happening and we all know there's a chance it could be correct or totally skewed. We have no way of knowing which we are hearing.

Now someone who has made their decision and wish to ask for information on where they can get help to take the steps they need to be successful in completion of what they decided to do, that's a different ballgame. I have no problem with that at all because information can be a very useful tool. That would be actual support, rather than the opinions that are so readily thrown out here when someone is still not sure what they want to do.

So I think you and I actually agree, do we not? :)

[LeftyFingerPop]

50. I think we may agree...

And I think that the only productive advice in situations like this is to recommend that they both get help, and perhaps how to get it.

I do not think that the OP should be criticized for her posts on the subject.

I think that any advice given on this subject needs to be done gently, because as you say, we will never know the full story in a forum such as this.

So yes, I think we agree. :)

[drmeow]

36. This is not true

"I would bear in mind that he cannot stop drinking without professional help and/or AA."

This is true about SOME alcoholics however not about all alcoholics

There are different types of alcoholism (depending on the theory anywhere from 2 to 4 types or more). AA is designed to treat one specific type of alcoholism. Based on my reading of the literature, I would consider it the most destructive type of alcoholism (the type George Bush has ... who, incidentally, is a dry drunk in the sense that he may not actually consume alcohol but he still acts like an alcoholic in all the really bad ways).

Whether greenbriar's husband can stop drinking without AA or professional helps depends on the age at which he started drinking and what alcoholic symptoms he has.

This is not to say that I don't think it is a good idea for greenbriar to remove herself from the situation or that she should expect him to be able to quit without help.

[Sugar Smack]

38. You could have a point.

I certainly don't know what's best for everybody, but I do agree that greenbriar would benefit from al-anon, which I hadn't stated before.

AA works for some people and for others it doen't; the truth of the matter no one here knows completely. Her posts lead one to believe that he has a serious drinking problem nonetheless, and that she and her daughter, while not threatened physically, are suffering a lot because of it.

My main point was that her situation from what she's described won't change until she seperates herself from it. I wish her strength & hope.

[drmeow]

39. My objection

to al-anon and ala-teen is the belief system within those organizations that everyone in the family has a disease. My own research does not support that theory. I wrote an entire paper on the problems related to pathologizing enabling (aka, codependency). Being an enabler is NOT necessarily a pathology. Being an enabler is often a normal (and socially desirable) response to an abnormal situation. Yes, there are enablers who have psychological problems that they need to address but not all of them. Yes, a support group can help family members of alcoholics stop enabling. But telling those people that they also have a disease is, to me, like telling women that menopause is an illness that needs medical treatment. I much prefer taking a resilience approach

While also not ideal, I think Save Our Selves (SOS) is a viable alternative to AA, al-anon, and ala-teen (http://www.secularsobriety.org/).

[Blue_In_AK]

43. I think you're correct there...

I tried Al-Anon while I was with my ex, but it didn't really do much for me. I've always had an issue with that "powerless" thing put forward by both AA and Al-Anon, and I don't believe I was "sick," just like I don't believe I was suffering from low self-esteem when my ex used to smack me around. It was always HIS problem, and once I got away from him, I was fine.

[elleng]

55. drmeow, I am SO happy

to hear of your disagreement with 'pathologizing enabling!'

I absolutely agree that it is/can be a normal and socially desirable response to an abnormal situation! Here we are (were) miserable, trying like heck to deal with a disagreeable situation, and on the other hand we were told that we have pathological problems!

While looking for a suitable program for my then-fiance, I 'interviewed' at what must have been a psych someting; they wanted to charge me for the interview, which ended up being about ME! I wish I could remember that I had said something like 'are you kidding?' but I can't; I'm afraid that I paid them, and ran!

[elleng]

52. fyi

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/UnderTheInfluence-Guide.htm

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/index.htm

[drmeow]

37. If you cannot leave the situation

it is important for you to be frank and honest with your daughter about the inappropriateness of her dad's behavior. The worst thing you can do is to pretend that it is OK or not a problem. Studies have shown that when the non-alcoholic parent refuses to normalize the behavior, children are able to escape some of the negative consequences of parental alcoholism. Don't hide dad's behavior, don't pretend dad's behavior is OK, don't deny her legitimate responses to dad's behavior, etc.

[derby378]

42. I am so sorry, gb...

I've only been drunk once in my life (I was in Las Vegas, and a footlong frozen mudslide daiquiri fortified with Everclear was to blame), and I can't say that I look forward to repeating that experience. When I got drunk, I got talkative, but also really mellow and soft-voiced, and I developed a headache and my head felt like it had gotten really warm inside my skull. I tended to repeat myself without meaning to. But at least I had enough of my wits about me to put the glass down, take extra precautions with my wallet, and keep an eye on ginbarn. All this while trying to put on a pair of Chinese-style trousers at a sidewalk kiosk that were three sizes too small. For a select few tourists, I was the entertainment on Fremont Street.

I can't imagine living my life like that, and I hope your hubby gets some help before things get worse. Hang in there. But above all else, take care of your kids - and yourself.

:hug:

[havocmom]

44. Starting over doesn't get easier with each passing year

Go to a CODA meeting or two and get on the road to making YOUR life better. His is out of your hands and he will drag you down the toilet with him if you just sit and growl.

[WCGreen]

53. The wife passed out after I made diner tonight....

It's getting old...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

54. I am sorry to hear that...

[TK421]

61. I could come over and keep him company?

just kidding... just trying to add some humor to the situation...I guess it didn't work