About "the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs"

[Orrex]

Poll question: About "the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs"

Carl Sagan famously decried Solo's statement as a serious misunderstanding of terminology and indicative of society's poor knowledge of general science. However George Lucas alleges that he really did mean "parsecs" as a measure of distance, rather than time as Solo's phrasing implies.

I don't buy Lucas' story. What do you think?

[Pierre.Suave]

1. Not only is it CYA...

it is also BULLSHIT!

[Orrex]

2. Good point

The poll entry has been edited

[Pierre.Suave]

7. HAHA

nice...

[DarkTirade]

3. It's CYA ret-conning.

In this case, the 'distance' they came up with was because Kessel is near a black hole cluster, and Solo shaved some distance and time off his trip by skimming ridiculously close to the black hole cluster.

*edit*

And this is coming from someone who bought a T-shirt that says '12 Parsec' on it. :P

[leeroysphitz]

4. Lucas has his own "special" brand of physics that works for him (and only him).

It was good enough for me when I was eight years old. I'm willing to pretend, for old times sake, that it's good enough for me now.

[Alexander]

5. Almost as bad a ret-con as "Greedo fired first".

[DarkTirade]

6. Hey, watch your language. There could be kids in here!

I wouldn't want my kids hearing about crazy shit like that. :P

[Aristus]

8. Lucas also ret-conned the impossibility of sound in space.

He rather lamely asserted in an interview once that in his Galaxy, there WAS sound in space. I wish he had just said "Look, I know sound can't travel in space, but I had this great Stuka-like sound effect for the TIE fighters and I wanted to use it."

[Orrex]

9. Good grief, that's lame

He should have kept his mouth shut about it. He might as well explain why English is the dominant language of the Old Republic, The Empire, and The New Republic.

:eyes:

[Aristus]

10. Well, I can draw a distinction between transliterating a language from another galaxy

into one we understand for the purpose of enjoying the film, and ignoring the laws of physics that seem to be the same everywhere.

On a side note regarding languages, Aurebesh is really cool!

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aurabesh

[DarkTirade]

16. Unfortunately just about every movie ignores some of the basics of space.

Flight works just like it does in an atmosphere in most movies. If a ship turns to the left, it banks left first. No real need to in space. But they do. Engines are running constantly, yet the ship stays at a constant speed. :shrug: C'est la guerre.

[PVnRT]

45. Don't get me started on acceleration forces and times

At least Star Trek made up "inertial dampers," even if there's no justification otherwise.

[Benfea]

43. Technically, they're speaking Basic, not English. -NT

[Lethe]

11. i dunno, i mean, what he says is plausible

he says that the difference in speed is really based on distance, that is, the computer has to plot the exact trajectory of the ship that is going into hyperspace to avoid everything in it's path. If you have a ship with an awesome computer than can plot a course that is a lot smaller distance, then you will arrive in a shorter amount of time.

Edit: Carl Sagan smoked weed. :D

[Orrex]

12. I don't dispute that the explanation would work

But I really doubt that it's what he had in mind when he penned the script back in the 70's.

I think that he goofed and got tired of getting beaten up about it, so he murdered Carl Sagan and came up with that "black holes" explanation.

[Benfea]

13. The only problem with your retcon BS....

...is that a rickety hunk of junk like the Millennium Falcon is unlikely to have a more powerful computer than every other ship in the galaxy.

[Recovered Repug]

14. A shorter distance may be due to the daring of a pilot and not

the power of a computer. If other pilots took longer, safer routes to avoid some hazard, Solo could have cut it down to a shorter distance and rely on the Falcons speed to get him through safely. But I still think Lucas used "parsec" because it sounded cool.

[DarkTirade]

15. Oh no, you did not speak ill of the Falcon in a Star Wars thread...

:P

[Benfea]

17. It's described as a hunk of junk in the MOVIE

Even Han treats it like a jalopy.

[Dr. Strange]

21. What the hell's an aluminum falcon?

[Orrex]

25. I laughed my ass off when I heard that

I'd hate to have to make that call!

[jmowreader]

38. It's got the most awesome computer ever built

Which explains why the Millennium Falcon was such a piece of shit spaceship: Han Solo spent so much money on his computer, he couldn't afford to fix up the hull.

[Benfea]

39. I presume you can back up this outrageous claim with something?

I thought not. :P

[Connonym]

18. It's the kind of lie only a scruffy-looking nerf herder tells

I have it on good authority...

[Rabrrrrrr]

19. It's explained quite nicely in one of the books

The Kessel Spice area was surrounded by high density stars and other stellar phenomena - thus, huge gravity wells that made navigation and travel difficult and very circuitous.

The fact that Han was able to make that run in less than 12 parsecs means he was daring enough to plot a course that went closer to those immense gravity wells than anyone else was willing to do, and thus, he traveled it in less time.

Han isn't bragging that he did the trip in a short amount of time - he's bragging that his course was dangerously short.

[Orrex]

26. Right. When was that book written?

It's retconning!

[DarkTirade]

31. It was written in 197... er... 90something.

:P

[Deja Q]

20. "Star Wars" was never exactly pegged as an intellectual's holiday treat.

And as the 1978 holiday special would solemnly confirm, but that's another story...

Lucas is playing everyone for chumps, and I wish Sagan were alive. After all, he wrote "Contact"; a very thoughtful and clever movie.

[DarkTirade]

22. Star Wars? Not high literature?

Surely you jest.

[Deja Q]

30. Well, I do have a sense of humor...

And don't call me Surely.



:rofl:

[SoxFan]

24. Sagan should have stuck to nonfiction

I was disappointed by the film version of "Contact". I found it overly long and more than a bit pretentious.

[Orrex]

27. Well, Sagan didn't write the film

The "take it on faith" was played a little heavy IMO, but overall I found the film to be an enjoyable treatment of the book and subject matter.

[kentauros]

44. Ya know, even Lucas disavows the existence of that fine piece of entertainment

known as the Star Wars Holiday Special :P
Everyone should know about and celebrate Life Day!

I thought the movie Contact was a great film, and very thought-provoking. I did try to read the book, but found it too dry for my tastes.

[Orsino]

23. I voted for retconning, but Sagan really is still dead. n/t

[DarkTirade]

28. 20 votes... and not a one for 'he meant it that way originally'.

:rofl:

[RetroLounge]

29. Geeks

that is all.

:rofl:

RL

[DarkTirade]

32. Hey, just because I know the serial number and name

of the stormtrooper who said, "Look sir, droids!" in Episode IV doesn't mean I'm...

... crap. I am a geek.

FYI, it's trooper number 1023, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Davin_Felth">Davin Felth. :P

[TommyO]

33. Hey, it was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away!

Then why the hell did most of them speak English?

[DarkTirade]

35. Not only that, but most of the bad guys spoke english with a british accent.

Despite the fact that they were in outer space and there was no britain.

[TommyO]

37. Well, the British Empire did try to expand it's control

All it would take was one who had The Force to draw the real Empire to him or her.

[kentauros]

46. If only Darth Vader had sounded like this:

Star Wars Trilogy - Eddie Izzard

:P

[Yavin4]

34. This Is The Kind of Thread That Gets The Ladies All Hot and Bothered

There's nothing like arcane scifi trivia that get the ladies going.

[DarkTirade]

36. Oh yeah... automatic +2 CHA right there.

[nemo137]

40. CYA retconning, and not even by Lucas!

It's from the Jedi Academy trilogy, by Kevin J. Anderson.

Although, as mentioned above, it makes Han more recklessly badass.

[cemaphonic]

41. retcon

but one which fits in well with the way that hyperspace travel has been presented for quite a while.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

42. Why not "twelve parsecs"?

I don't know how far the Kessel Run is, but let's say it's a million parsecs. By folding space, as done by the navigators in Dune, the distance can be reduced. If you gots a real badass space-folding hotrod, you could fold it all the way down to twelve parsecs. Imperial cruisers can't fold it to much below a hundred parsecs.

Piece of cake.

[mzteris]

47. Trivia FYI: the word "Kessel"

in Kessel run was used in reference to "John Kessel" - a scifi author, editor, and mentor . . .

more info on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kessel