The worst episode of ST:ENT is better than the best episode of ST:VOY

[Orrex]

Discuss.

[DarkTirade]

1. I haven't seen enough Voyager to be certain of that claim...

but from what I've seen of Voyager, I wouldn't be surprised. :P

[TZ]

2. I strongly disagree.

I found a lot of the storylines with the Borg to be quite good. I enjoyed the episodes with the "equinox" I believe, the rouge Starfleet officer/ship.
Unfortunately, even though I loved Scott Bakula in Quantum Leap, I could only endure 3 episodes of ST:ENT before I gave it up.

[Orrex]

5. I think that they made the Borg a little too touchie-feelie

I liked them better in their ST:TNG incarnation, when they were almost a force of nature, rather than an oppressed society. To her credit, Jeri Ryan did a fantastic job as Seven, even though the show took a lot of shit because she's a curvy blonde. IMO she and the Doctor were the two best characters.

The last dozen or so random episodes of Voyager that I've managed to catch on The Sci-Fi Channel have been entirely based on holodeck stories, and it gets to be a little much after a while.

[TZ]

7. I agree with you on the holodeck stories

I never liked many of them even in TNG (with the notable exception of the episode where Picard goes into the Holodeck to escape Lwaxana Troi..that was hilarious)

I liked the fact though that they made the Borg not so much a faceless enemy--They kind of started that with Hugh in TNG....

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Uh... (I hate myself for entering this conversation)

But didn't ST:TNG make them all touchy feely with there "Hugh" episode where they, literally, made a borg touchy feely and he brought down their whole society?

Man, nobody could come up with a good sci fi notion like the "Borg" and ruin it like ST.

[Orrex]

17. That's a good case to make, but hear me out...

Yes indeed, Third of Five became Hugh in that episode, and he was returned to the Collective in what Picard speculated might be "the most pernicious plot" of all; potentially "infecting" the group-mind with a sense of individuality.

As was later seen in Descent, Hugh's effect on the Collective was catastrophic but limited in scope. In essence, the Collective isolated the infected ship and abandoned it to chaos, until Lore showed up and gave these newly awakened Borg a leader.

The difference between Hugh and the kindler, gentler Voyager Borg is that Hugh was awakened to humanity, as were the others of his ship. Seven of Nine et al (Echeb, those three half-Borg people, etc.) were portrayed as individuals whose individuality was more or less suppressed by their link to the Borg. Unimatrix Zero, in fact, presented a sort of consciousness resort wherein the subconscious minds of drones could express their individuality, albeit in a solely mental environment.

The killer, for me, is that the Borg are originally presented as unstoppable, incomprehensible species to be fought or avoided. In Voyager, they became little more than radically different humans who just needed a little love. Janeway, in fact, chats with and bargains with the Queen on several occasions. Even post-First Contact, such chummy interaction is wildly off-tone IMO.

Man, nobody could come up with a good sci fi notion like the "Borg" and ruin it like ST.

That much is certainly true. The mighty team of Berman/Bragga can fuck up even the most unfuckuppable concept.

[Orsino]

3. I dunno about that...

...not having seen all that much of Voyager. But I really, really liked Enterprise, being then ready for a grittier Trek with more-or-less normal people in the cast, and scripts full of small talk. It was good, and the acting was superb--even if the scripts often tended toward the blah.

[Orrex]

6. I thought that, from the first episode, it was the best acted of the various series

Sure, the characterizations were a little sketchy at first, but the performances were solid througout.

[Posteritatis]

18. Porthos is still my favorite character from it, though (nt)

[mochajava666]

4. ST:ENT started out pretty slow

Both ST:NG and ST:ENT took a while to establish a convincing rapport and dialog among the crew. I thought ST:NG was rather stilted for the first season, and there was a lot of whining in the first half of ST:ENT.

[Phoonzang]

8. I'd agree.

The last season of ST:ENT was arguably the best of any Star Trek series. Voyager was....ech.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. I enjoy all the Trek series. We watch Voyager here the most because that

is the one my little boys latched onto first. I think we have watched the series about 6 times through now. I ask them if they really need to see it again since they know all of it by heart, but they insist they'll never get enough. I wonder how many other kids in their generation will always think of Voyager with more fondness than the rest of the series?

[Sequoia]

16. Your kids can never get enough they say?

Well, I still can't get enough of the original Star Trek, I still love it even though I've seen them over and over and over. Some I can do without, I never much cared for the mad robots but those Romulans with their cool bird of prey ship was awesome then and awesome now.

[PVnRT]

10. A Mirror Darkly > nearly any ST episodes

[Zavulon]

11. With all due respect, good sir, your assertion is an absolute pantload.

ENT is even worse than DS9, which is saying a lot, because DS9 sucked ass.

VOY had some GREAT episodes, my favorite of which was the classic "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy." The one in which the ship was fractured into 37 different time zones was great, the 100th episode (in which Harry goes back to right a wrong from 15 years earlier) was great, and I could name a lot more episodes in which I just LOVED.

In contrast, I can't even think of an ENT episode that I even LIKED. Sorry, but other than the smoking hot Vulcan babe that show was unwatchable, and if not for her that show probably would have been axed long before it actually was.

Don't even get me started on ENT's theme song.

[Orrex]

12. Voyager did indeed have a great theme song

And I'm sure that one or two non-Borg episodes of the series' run are even watchable more than once or twice.

:evilgrin:

[malta blue]

13. ...

:rofl::rofl:

It took me about 3 minutes to figure out WTF you were talking about :blush:

[Faygo Kid]

15. Enterprise sucked. Worst of the lot.

Scott Bakula was good in Quantum Leap, but Enterprise was hopeless.

Voyager wasn't The Next Generation, but it had its moments. And at least, it didn't have the all-time worst recurring character, soap opera princess Major Kira.

Yuck. At least Seven of Nine had - er - redeeming qualities.

[leeroysphitz]

19. Agree. Voyager & DS9 both SUCKED.

They were like the "Cop Rock" of science fiction.

[BlueIris]

24. Woah, I've never met anyone who disliked DS9. What was wrong with DS9?

Although "'Cop Rock'" of science fiction is an awesome expression and you may consider it stolen.

[Cannikin]

27. DS9 was Battlestar Trek. I pictured Gene rolling in his urn when I watched it.

I disliked ENT as well.

[Orrex]

28. Never met anyone who disliked it? Let me count the ways.

From the first episode to the last, I couldn't stand the way Sisko or Kira delivered any of their lines. Not one. And that's weird, since Avery Brooks is an accomplished actor with a commanding voice; in DS9 he always sounded like he was trying to resist a chuckle. Ditto for Nana Visitor; the extent of her range is "bemused outrage." Anything beyond that seems wholly out of reach for her.

The whole Bajoran spirituality theme got old for me before the end of the pilot episode, and the five hundred episodes about the Founders were just too much to take!

Guess I just didn't like its underlying concept.

[Flaxbee]

20. I like Voyager better; the f*cking Xindi storyline just

drove me insane, as did the history flashbacks, the Nazi what-if stories.

I liked the ENT concept, and Dr. Phlox cracked me up, but I'd prefer to watch a Voyager episode than an ENT episode. ST:TNG is my favorite, because it's the first one I really ever watched. The original, while I do understand its standing as a classic, I find almost unwatchable.

Most holodeck storylines, in every ST incarnation, seriously suck.

[Orrex]

21. IIRC Voyager had a two-part Nazi Holodeck arc

It was a perfect storm of craptacularity.

[Flaxbee]

22. lol - haven't seen it!

I'll make sure to avoid it.

I really am conflicted - ENT and VOY both had really good episodes, and it seemed as if the ENT crew were just hitting their stride when Brannon/Braga or whatever the hell their names are shoved them into Xindi hell. I mean, a few episodes, sure, but to me, it went on waaayyyyyy too long. And I think it got too dark, too, for what ST viewers expected or wanted. Not saying dark is bad, just that it probably didn't really sit well with your average ST fan.

[Orrex]

23. I agree about the overuse of the Xindi.

For a species that never appears anywhere else in the canonical chronology (ie., books don't count), they sure had a big impact on the arc of the series.

Some episodes within The Expanse were excellent, but some were just kind of flat.

However, Twilight and Carpenter Street, though dark, were IMO two of the best episodes in the entire franchise.

[ElboRuum]

25. No it isn't. Discussion complete.

[JTG of the PRB]

26. Must. Resist. Nerdly. Temptations. To. Disagree.

Must... Resist...

[baldguy]

29. The best ST episode of all time is Galaxy Quest

:hide:

[Orrex]

30. That's a pretty damn good film

An affectionate and spot-on spoof.