Why are some people so proud of their own ignorance?

[peruban]

Why are some people so proud of their own ignorance?

I was brought up to appreciate new experiences and to learn how to enjoy different things. This ranges from traveling to new environments, eating new foods, and learning new ideas to taking in different customs, learning new languages, and understanding different ways of perceiving things. My dad, bless his soul, always taught me that "when in Rome, you do as the Romans". He taught me how to eat with chopsticks when I was four and introduced me to parts of the animal not commonly eaten in this country like tripe, heart, liver, kidney, etc.

This line of thinking has sometimes shocked me (like when I learned people eat things like fertilized duck eggs, cats, puppies, suckling pig, and cui (guinea pigs)) and sometimes delighted me (like when I discovered ceviche, sushi, sashimi, and the endless variety of raw and steamed shellfish and other seafood). I’ve learned to eat a variety of exotic fruits - like akee and maranñon - and vegetables - like cassava, yucca, and bok choy - and I’ve never come across anything that I haven’t learned to at least appreciate, if not enjoy.

It helped me in college when learning abstract mathematics, advanced physics, world philosophy, and biochemistry as well as when I did my own individual studies of world religions.

What takes me aback, however, is how some people are entirely content to sit within a "safety shell", dismiss the world around them, and revel in their own ignorance - much like a chimpanzee sitting in its own waste. I never understood it.

I'll give you an example, I'm from South Florida, but my ex-wife was from North Georgia, not too far away, right? When we visited her family I offered to take her sister and boyfriend out to some fast food. First thing on my mind was Taco Bell, why not? Can you even guess what the boyfriend said? "I'm not much for them foreign foods." :wtf: Taco Bell? Foreign food?

First off, Taco Bell is about as far from real Mexican food you can get without completely reinventing the ingredients, it's basically how the U.S. views Mexican food through a kaleidoscope - very, very wrong.

And I've met people through the years, mostly freeper-religio-types, who have this impression that their way is THE way, and that other ways of thinking, eating, dressing, acting, and entertaining themselves are somehow disgusting, wrong, perverse, or even heretical and demonic. They actually take pride in their ignorance and consider it some form of purity, heritage, patriotic pride, or something. It even goes so far as to be apparent in their lack of mastery of their own language, English. They'll speak with what I believe has been politely termed as "Queen's English", i.e. backwoods hick speak and think nothing of it.

I just don't get it. Is it (in)breeding, fear of the unfamiliar, outrageous vanity, or what? What makes a person close their mind so much that any new or different experience is either rejected or dismissed and discarded?

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Probably not a good idea to bring up Taco Bell.

:scared:

The bald douchebag comes to mind.

[Forkboy]

2. You answer your own question. They're ignorant.

:)

[peruban]

3. It's not that. We're ALL ignorant of something or other.

Most things, in fact. That's the definition of ignorance. I'm ignorant of how nuclear power plants work on a subatomic level, I'm ignorant of the Mandarin language, I'm ignorant of Milton's Paradise Lost, I'm ignorant of the taste and smell of durian fruit, yet, when given the chance I listen and try to learn something about them or anything else whenever I can.

The type of person I'm referring to is also aware of their ignorance but make no effort and even try to avoid contact with these new experiences or knowledge. They sit in a shell of their own making and do nothing to excite their experiences. I just don't understand that line of thinking. Again, like an ape sitting in its own waste.

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. Fear.

And in Taco Bell's case, fear of "running for the border".

[peruban]

8. I thought about that, too.

But, then, what is there to be afraid of? Especially in the case of learning the literature of one's own language, or even speaking it properly. Is it fear that if someone says "have you eaten?" instead of "have you ate?" that they will be made fun of or somehow chastised for using proper grammar? Or maybe using a word with more than three syllables will mark them as an "egghead" or something? Is there really a fear of intellect?

And, if so, why? Why would intellect and understanding ostracize someone? Does it make others feel inferior and, hence, point out their ignorance even further? Do they feel insulted if someone challenges their understanding of things and so take personally the mental obstacle presented as an offense?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. Your thinking is awfully narrow

You're assuming that everyone is as strong and has as solid a background as you do. That's where you fuck up.

A lot of people, maybe the majority of them, I don't know, have factors in their lives that make your kind of cultural curiosity just not possible. They don't have adults who can show them new things, they don't have the opportunity for travel. They, in short, live lives very different from what you portray as yours.

Count your blessings. Not all folks are as lucky as you are, and I might add that your patting yourself on the back for being such a wonderfully open-minded and experienced person makes me just the slightest bit uneasy. You really are setting up with ends up being an invidious comparison, a game of "Look at me! Why can't you be like me?"

The answer, as I'm sure you understand, is so obvious, you might want to rethink your "I'm so much more open than you" stance and perhaps see that people - so many people - have limitations on their lives that you, perhaps, have never noticed.

Here's a suggestion - use your wonderful courage and daring and curiosity and get to know a kid who doesn't have a father, whose mother works a minimum wage job, who doesn't have anyone to help him or her with homework, who maybe doesn't get enough to eat. Get to know that child, and then consider who's gong to give him the opportunities that you have been so fortunate to have.

In the meantime, quit your crowing. It's decidedly unattractive and I suspect you're smarter than your post suggests, but your need for admiration is causing you to - as they say - step on your own dick.

Oh, and welcome to DU.

[peruban]

44. You make an awfully good point.

Reminds me of the opening lines of "The Great Gatsby":

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Whenever you feel like criticizing any one,” he told me, “just remember that all the people in this world haven’t had the advantages that you’ve had.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Advantages and influences can vary, and these can have great effects on a person's tendencies for curiosity. I never meant to seem superior or boastful in any way, just that I've always had curiosity and interest in different things. Things that seem foreign to me seem to spark my curiosity and the lack of curiosity in others just doesn't make sense to me sometimes. The way you put it, however, fills me with a sense of pity - surely not what you were going for but effective just the same. I feel sorry for those people who lack the intellectual curiosity I pride myself in having, and the clinging to that lack of curiosity now gives me a sense of sadness rather than irritation. Maybe I have been a bit blind to the effects disadvantages can have on a person's personality. I'll try to be more cautious of that in the future, thank you.

Oh, and thanks for the welcome, I've actually been on DU since 2000 or so under the name "kixot", I just left for a few years and lost my e-mail and password so I created a new s/n. :hi:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

48. Wow, did I fail.........................

Your blindness is astonishing.

You feel pity.

Well, I guess that's a start, but why not take that self-involved emotion that still leaves you sitting up there on your imaginary Mount Superiority and use that vaunted sense of curiosity that strikes me, from what you've written, as nothing more than opportunities you've been afforded, and perhaps go outside your own thin world and see what you can do to help expand the world of those who haven't been as fortunate as you?

How daring - you've eaten tripe. Take a bow.

Want to do something daring?

Adopt a child. Become a foster parent, or even a Big Brother. Be responsible for another life, for forming that kid's character, for making sure that child is safe in this world.

That's daring. Anyone can eat with chopsticks, suck up haggis, or dine on that heinous fugu that's just not even worth it.

I'm sure you're a very nice person, but, on this subject, you're operating on the level of a single-celled organism. Put your pride away and use all that energy spent congratulating yourself into lending a hand to someone who might enjoy getting to know the world as you have.

The people you decry here are, I think, able to teach you a whole lot more than you might be able to teach them

There are, believe it or not, folks who find Taco Bell's offerings exotic. There are more of them, I daresay, than there are of you. It's their view, and it's just as valid as yours. Please try to remember that.

Hell, I find Taco Bell exotic........................

[peruban]

51. I have enough on my hands with my nephew and first cousin once removed.

My sister and cousin also had the advantages I had but they don't seem to be as aggressive in passing them along to their boys. My sister's son is four and I've already got him multiplying and dividing single digit numbers in his head. I also try to teach him music appreciation, read to him, and play soccer with him whenever she brings him around. I do the same with my cousin's son who is about a year and a half younger. She was pretty much raised with my family and her mom and dad didn't have that much to do with her upbringing so she's more like a sister to me than a cousin.

I know that pity isn't the emotion you were going for but I can't help but feel sad. Like I quoted from "The Great Gatsby", not everyone gets the same advantages. That is sad. I come from a tightly knit family and can't help but feel sorry for those whose parents didn't, wouldn't, or couldn't do enough to prepare their children for the plethora of variety life has to offer. I'm sorry if sympathy is an offensive emotion for you but I find it to be perfectly human and suitable.

And as far as the Taco Bell comment, it's American fast food, that's all I was getting at. Whether you like fast food or not is your business but it's insulting to Mexicans to consider it Mexican food, or even "exotic". Hell, you can get nachos at any movie theater, stadium, or convenience store nowadays, there's nothing "foreign" or "exotic" about it any more than sauerkraut on a hot dog.

[stuntcat]

5. My stepfather won't eat at Taco Bell either

The only "foreign" food he'll eat is Italian.
His world is tiny towns, golf courses full of rednecks, and singing in church.
He wouldn't try sushi if you held him down and threatened his life.
He'll always be happy that way though, not the least curious about the world outside his town.

(NOTHING AGAINST SMALL TOWNS, GOLF, OR CHURCH, don't get me wrong, I'm just sayin! some people need to get outta their little world a few days)

[charlie and algernon]

15. Are you my sister??

That describes my dad almost to the letter. He'll also eat chinese food, but that's it, chinese and Italian. He's all about the small town he and my mom live in. Not at all interested in any big cities or other nations, except that he KNOWS the middle east is bad. :eyes: He's perfectly happy living in his small town, going to work in the day, doing stuff at church at night, and golfing on the weekend.

[unpossibles]

32. heh. I finally got my dad to eat more adventurously

He used to be notoriously bad, and still is sometimes.

I remember once when I asked him if he liked Chinese food. I was just trying to break up the monotony of his diet, and mine when I visit him, as he lives on cheap BBQ joints and I am a vegetarian who sometimes wants something more than a salad.

Anyway, he told me, "I tried it once, and I didn't like it." I later found out that he had tried it at some fast food "Chinese" restaurant (akin to the Taco Bell in the OP), and finally convinced him with help from his girlfriend, to try something at least of better quality before deciding. Lol. It's like eating at McDonald's once and deciding you don't like hamburgers or not liking Italian food based on a trip to Pizza Hut or Olive Garden or something.

He's still pretty bad, but he's gotten better.

[stuntcat]

35. it's totally THEIR loss

well they don't know it, but it is! lol

[HEyHEY]

6. The only people who speak the Queens English in North America live in Richmond Hill

As for the rest of it, I think it's comfort, plain and simple. Instead of admitting their frightened of new things they act as if they won't try them on principle.

[jobycom]

7. You'd make a lot of animals happy if you expanded your views to tofu, sietan, and tempeh.

:)

[peruban]

11. I enjoy tofu very much and have had it prepared many ways.

Sietan and tempeh don't ring a bell, but I usually try to eat vegetarian most of the time, anyway, so I'm sure I'd try them if I had the chance. I do feel some guilt when I eat meat but I try to give thanks to the animal who gave its life for my sustenance when I do so it doesn't weigh down on my soul so much. And the way they treat the animals sometimes makes my stomach churn, so I avoid it when I can. I just can't give up seafood, though, it's a personal/guilty addiction.

[jobycom]

16. Good job of sidestepping my trap.

:)

You're about where I was in the years before I became vegetarian (just as a point of conversation). I never made a decision to stop eating it, I just realized after a while that I no longer ate it. I'm not saying that to encourage you to go in that direction, or any direction, just making an observation. :)

[peruban]

19. Oh, I was a strict vegetarian all through college.

I did still eat dairy but avoided eggs whenever possible. I eventually started eating meat again because of its convenience and availability, but the guilt remained, though. I just live with it as a part of an imperfect world and an imperfect self. I'm a Buddhist Catholic, so I'm used to the guilt, LOL.

[Crazy Dave]

9. Oh it gets even worse

I recently met a good old boy who still thinks that only gays get AIDS.

[peruban]

13. WOW.

Now THAT'S clueless.

[Crazy Dave]

20. Yup

And it makes you want to shut up and just read the magazines or watch TV while waiting to get new tires instead of talking with the other people waiting.

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. Because for the ignorant, ignorance is all they have. So they have to be proud of it.

[billyskank]

14. There's a deep strain of anti-intellectualism in Anglo-Saxon culture.

It happens here too. For sure, intelligence does not make one any more worthy than somebody less intelligent, and nor does intelligence equate to wisdom: intelligent people frequently do very unwise things. But I don't see any virtue in ignorance either.

[peruban]

17. Intelligence may not equal wisdom

But you have to admit that with enough intelligence, wisdom can emerge. Though, I have to concede that wisdom can exist without a whole lot of intelligence, so... ok, an individual's worth can't be deduced by their intelligence or wisdom, but instead, by some other yet unmentioned metric.

[billyskank]

24. Intelligence coupled with experience, usually. And reflection.

Intelligence, as I understand it, is the capacity do understand and do complicated things. But wisdom is the power to tell what is favourable from what is unfavourable.

[unpossibles]

36. ever notice that if there is more than one way to say something

the Germanic word is almost always considered to be lower class/hoi polloi and the Latin-based word (often French) is usually considered fancier/more elite?

I sometimes wonder if it all goes back to Duke William II of Normandy conquering England. Hell, we're still not over it. :D

[billyskank]

37. That could well be the reason.

Truly.

[peruban]

39. Linguists often remark on "high" and "low" forms of speech within the same language.

They correctly deduce, in my opinion, that both are equally valid, though one is usually more acceptable in a given circumstance than the other. Many of our "high" words do derive from the Latin, or more properly French as you pointed out, but there are also many that are pure Germanic - so it's a "smorgasbord", lol.

[billyskank]

46. The Romans themselves had "classical" and "vulgar" latin.

The empire lasted for several centuries, and in that time spoken latin underwent changes. Vulgar referred to the spoken language, whereas classical latin was written and stayed the same as it used to be.

[Road Scholar]

12. It's a Republican trait. nt

[Inchworm]

18. I speak my ignorance to learn

Sometimes it comes across as me being odd and stupid though.

I'll ask any question that comes to mind to anyone I feel may know the answer.

I, too, was raised to enjoy the world. It has made me one eclectic mofo.

The acceptance of remaining ignorant always blows my mind.

There is so much to be learned from the humans that inhabit earth. :D

:hi:

[RebelOne]

21. Oh come on, I live in North Georgia

and not all of us think Taco Bell is foreign food, though I would not eat there, because I don't like fast food.

[peruban]

23. This was in Rome, GA

Not sure how far you are from there but no offense intended, and, yes, I know not everyone up thataways thinks that way.

[DarkTirade]

22. Ewwww... tripe.

Gross. :P

[peruban]

27. Yeah, tripe wasn't exactly my favorite experience.

The Peruvians prepare it with a sauce over rice in a dish they call "cau-cau criollo". A recipe follows:
http://peru-recipes.com/2008/04/cau-cau-criollo-creole-cau-cau

But at least having had it now I can stomach it.
:P
Get it? Stomach it?
:rofl:
Ok, I'll stop now.

[DarkTirade]

30. Sounds like a load of haggis to me.

:P

[redqueen]

25. As a warning to others, so they won't mate with them?

:shrug:

[DarkTirade]

26. ... that makes complete sense.

Now I understand. :thumbsup:

[Deep13]

28. I don't know why and that's awesome! nt

[av8rdave]

29. We even have a Presidential example of the behavior you described

He is dismissive and even contemptuous of those who are better educated or are experts in their fields. I get the feeling his hatred of science can be traced to his pandering to the extreme religious right. He actually seems proud of being an idiot!

[unpossibles]

31. some people thrive on new experiences, others run from it

many of us are somewhere in the middle.

This is interesting:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081201/sc_livescience/somebrainsarewiredforchange;_ylt=Ao5cn5BTm.xzYHZQeFjV8uOs0NUE

Some Brains Are Wired for Change

If you're among those who think it's time for change, your attitude may be strongly influenced by how your brain is wired.
People who welcome new experiences have stronger connections between their memory and reward brain centers than people who tend to avoid anything new, research now shows.

Specifically, people who actively seek lifestyle changes may have a more developed connection between two specific brain areas: the hippocampus, a site for storing and retrieving new and old memories, and the ventral striatum, a reward system which is responsible for those carpe diem moments, said researcher Dr. Bernd Weber of the Life & Brain Center at the University of Bonn in Germany. Turns out, if the hippocampus identifies an experience as new, it then relays signals to the striatum to release neurotransmitters which lead to positive feelings.

"The strength of the connection is positively correlated to novelty seek ... but this does not imply that having weaker connections is a 'bad' thing," Weber told LiveScience.
...
"Brain 'wiring' and personality are not really one causing the other," Weber said. It's more likely to be an interaction between the two.

But beyond this, yes many people strongly defend and are proud of their own ignorance. I think part of it is being told over and over that only elites (or whatever) try to better themselves, and part of it is just a stubborn laziness to ever accept that they can (or should) change themselves for the better. The irony here being that those who call others "elite" apparently think they are better than we are.

I think it's similar to how people who never question what they are told by someone like Rush Limbaugh pretending to be 'the common man' will somehow romanticize how they see themselves; as some sort of rebel patriot.

[peruban]

45. That's incredible!

There's a mental link to preference to new experience on a Pavlovian-based reward conditioning? The brain actually transmits chemicals leading to positive feelings based on these new or familiar experiences? This could explain a lot. Mental conditioning plays such a large role in how we conduct ourselves that it makes sense, people get giddy when conditioned to experience new things while others feel innate comfort in things familiar. Why didn't I think of this before? That's brilliant, thank you for the link.
:yourock:

[WildEyedLiberal]

33. Maybe they cling to it because they feel condescended to by more "educated" people

It's a fairly standard defense mechanism: if someone feels threatened or patronized, they will cling much more rigidly to people, places, foods, culture, etc that are "safe" and comfortable. I don't mean to say in the slightest that you have ever been condescending to anyone's face, or that this reaction is even rational. But you asked why they "revel in their own ignorance," and I do believe the comfort factor is a huge part of it.

Deep down, these people are very afraid that "big city" or "highly educated" folk will never think of them as anything more than backwoods stupid hillbilly rednecks, so, paradoxically, they cleave to that identity in response. Perhaps they are aware that they'll never have what it takes to become highly educated (and that's not a slight against them; relatively few people have the necessary intelligence and critical thinking skills to succeed academically), so they think, "why bother? Those folks will always think I'm a stupid hick anyway." And they are not wrong. DU has proved time and time again that people from rural, "backwater" areas are condescended to as a matter of course. Their resentment and fear of the "elites" who are looking down on them is not just borne of paranoia; I have seen time and again the routine scorn that is directed at people from these areas of the country. Your "inbreeding" comment is just another form of that pernicious social bigotry - as if these people who for whatever reason are ignorant are so because they marry their own cousins, and as if such rare instances of "inbreeding" were limited to people you find socially distasteful.

Does that mean I don't get frustrated with people who are proud to be ignorant? No. I know people who think Taco Bell is "foreign" and who are afraid to travel because they don't like leaving their comfort zones. My mindset is the polar opposite of theirs and I honestly don't understand people who lack intellectual or cultural curiosity. But I also realize that they are this way in large part because of fear that they will be judged and found lacking by more "intelligent," "worldly" people, and that judging them in order to feel intellectually superior is cheap and tawdry and will only reinforce their insularity and suspicion.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. It's really discouraging, though, when COLLEGE STUDENTS

act like that: ignoring the many opportunities for cultural enrichment on campus, never interacting with the foreign students, avoiding opportunities to take electives outside their majors, avoiding low-cost opportunities to study abroad.

I'm talking about college students who flee the campus and go for fast food on the night when the foreign students take over the campus dining hall to cook their favorite foods from their countries--an event that the FACULTY at the college always appreciated as the only night when the fare there was edible.

And it wasn't because the food was something the students had tried and disliked: Where is someone in the rural Pacific Northwest going to taste Malaysian or Jamaican food? (Both of which are delicious, by the way.)

It was that attitude of "New! Different! (But not promoted on TV!) Oh,no! Scary!" that popped up again in my college teaching career.

To my mind, such people are merely cluttering up the nation's colleges and would be happier in a purely vocational program.

[WildEyedLiberal]

42. Agree with your last sentence

I went to a big state school with a high international student population, so I didn't see a lot of those kinds of attitudes. Regrettably, the only students who were like that - who avoided the "foreigners" and didn't make much effort to enjoy the diversity readily available to them - were by and large the ag college students. I don't blame rural people with high school educations for being a bit wary of things that are radically different from what they've known, but there isn't any excuse for people who go to a large university to deliberately avoid encountering different people or things.

I absolutely agree that ignorance is far, far worse, and inexcusable, when it comes from educated people who have had the opportunity to experience things outside their comfort zone, and refuse to do so. People like that are almost invariably Republicans who wrap themselves in provincialism so they can manipulate less educated people and pretend to be "one of them" - exhibit A, George W. Bush.

I see no point in condescending to uneducated rural people, as the OP seems to do - I highly doubt most DUers would condescend to poor people in other countries, who likewise have very little knowledge or experience outside their own provincial culture. But ignorance from people who have had ample opportunity to travel, learn, and experience a variety of cultures is appalling.

[Pierre.Suave]

43. I like the way you think LL

keep it up.

I look forward to talking with you some more at the next meet up.

:hi:

[peruban]

49. Maybe that's why my marriage didn't work out.

When my ex-wife moved from rural Northern GA to metropolitan South FL she had a LOT of new experiences to take in. The only seafood she had ever eaten was frozen shrimp, so making my Spanish paella was like alien food to her. She had also never eaten a proper steak so having a filet mignon with bearnaise sauce on Las Olas Blvd. in downtown Fort Lauderdale was also a completely alien experience.

I would also often suggest books and short stories for her to read, she thought herself an English major, and that may have seemed to her as condescending. But what was I to do? The girl had never read anything outside of "Goosebumps" novels, Ann Rice, and Stephen King for Christ's sake! Suggesting Thomas Hardy, Jane Austin, the Bronte sisters, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Dorothy Parker, even H.P. Lovecraft must have overwhelmed her small town sensitivities. I have an extensive private library with over 1,200 entries in every subject I can think of which I pride myself of and am always reading something or other. I'm currently on a Nabokov kick and am reading "Lolita" and "Pale Fire" simultaneously. Ok, so now I rambling and showing off. Dumb-ass me.

So, ok, intellectual curiosity and its encouragement can definitely seem condescending to anyone, especially if it's suggested in an attempt to improve a person's range of interests. I can see how it would seem as "look how much better than you I am" and "you can be this great, too" - but does it have to be that way? Maybe it's not just how it's presented but also how it's perceived. Maybe that's where things went wrong. Too late to worry about that anymore, anyway - but the understanding does shine a different light on the subject.

[Initech]

34. Saying Taco Bell is foreign food is like giving Bush a medal of peace.

Oh wait... that already happened! :evilgrin:

[BurtWorm]

40. I don't know, and I'm goddamn proud of it.

:bounce:

[Deja Q]

47. Depends on the issue, but I'll by and large agree with your assessment.

Just don't say to be open-minded when a 14 year old goes out and, by her choice, gets pregnant by some male that's not going to care about from getting his jollies. That I will never be open-minded about. Too much evidence shows so much is wrong with 14 year olds getting pregnant, having babies, and the repercussions from that.

Controversial example, but I couldn't think of anything along the lines of atypical cuisine such as tripe or sparrow parts...

[hippywife]

50. Some people just aren't very adventurous and

I don't think it's too bad if that's the way someone is, except for their lack of curiosity depriving them of so much. What is bad is when people rip down other cultures based on their ignorance.

This is my favorite poster from Syracuse Cultural Workers:

http://syracuseculturalworkers.com/poster-other-cultures

[peruban]

52. I like that.

It puts my thoughts exactly, just more succinct.