I love small town America, and I don't care who knows it.

[crimsonblue]

I think small towns have gotten a bad name by liberals. The people in small towns are just the same as those in big cities on the coasts. I lived with my grandparents in a small town in Kansas for a time, and I loved it. The people were very nice, willing to lend a helping hand, and I didn't see bigotry or extremism. I think small towns get a bad rap for being home to "crazy christian fundamentalists" when this isn't really the case. Yes, religion is important to the people in small towns, but I think it is more out of a necessity than wacky belief.

I have lots of asshole friends in small towns, and I have lots of asshole friends in big towns. The size of the town does not determine its worth.

[Symarip]

1. I love all of America

I just happen to hold certain locations in a higher light based on their burrito content and weather.

[ogneopasno]

2. Agree. I live near a town of about 3,000 in one of the bluest counties in a blue state. Voter

turnout is so high here there's no point in doing GOTV stuff. I know so many people, there's always someone to help out if I need it, and I feel good stepping up and helping my neighbors when they need it. I loved living in the big city, and I love living near this small town. I know it depends on where you are and who you know, but not all small towns are the same, and I have to say mine is weird in its way, but it rocks.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

3. Depends on the small town

Is it a small liberal town or a small fundie town?

[HopeHoops]

4. Harrisburg, PA is the capital of the state, but it has the feel of a small town.

I picked my college because it was a small town (about 6,000 when college isn't in session). My daughters were all born in the same small town. And NO THIS IS NOT going to turn into a John Mellencamp song!!!!!

[TK421]

14. It sounds like thats good enough for you!

[sammythecat]

15. Lived in Hbg. from age 1 to 19

Bishop McDevitt, HACC. Steve Reed was 2 years ahead of me in high school. He was exactly the same then as he is now. I think it's cool that he hasn't succumbed to the Peter Principle and seems satisfied being a good mayor.

It's not spectacular in any way, but in it's own size category, it probably ranks near the top. HACC is a great community college, but Hbg. could use a full-fledged 4 year university of it's own though.

Been up here in Juniata county since '72. :hi:

[HopeHoops]

23. I'm in Enola - we love it here.

[AlCzervik]

5. i don't hear liberals bad mouthing small towns, i hear conservative nutjobs claiming

liberals hate america and "small town values". I also hear those same conservative nutjobs blast San francisco and the state of Massachusetts all the time.

[crimsonblue]

6. I think what irks me

is people associating small town = christian fundamentalism.

This isn't the case.

[AlCzervik]

7. i don't associate small towns with fundies, i associate Mega churches with fundies.

i lived Houston which is a huge city with lots of mega churches loaded with fundies. The great thing about Huston is the fact that titty bars are in the same general area as the Churches.

[crimsonblue]

8. Small towns don't have mega churches.

They have small churches, and from the ones I've been to, they don't have such crazy ideas. The last sermon I went to was in a small town, and the preacher was talking about the need to love your neighbors around you, irregardless of who they are. He even said, "if a person of a different religion moves next door, greet them as your neighbor and respect their religion. It is just as valid to them as christianity is to you."

[no name no slogan]

11. Right-- I associate them with the outer-ring suburbs and McMansions

That tends to be the reddest of the red areas, at least in my state.

MN-6, encompasses the northern suburbs of Minneapolis/St. Paul, and is represented in Congress by Michelle Bachman, a complete right-wing nutcase (Google her if you don't know how nutty she is).

MN-1 is a mostly rural district that encompasses the southernmost part of the state-- one of the least densely populated areas in the nation, and also one of the most Republican areas going back to the Civil War. It is represented by Tim Walz, a moderate Democrat with fairly socially conservative (yet fiscally liberal) views).

So no, I don't associate rural with being conservative. If anything, I would associate conservatism with the suburbs.

[Ava]

13. small towns in the south = about as conservative as they get

perhaps it's different in MN.. but in the south small towns are conservative, born-again christian, and red.

[crimsonblue]

18. There was an interesting theory I saw during the Pres. Primaries..

I can't remember where I saw it, but the gist of it was that people tended to view minorities more favorably in areas that either: a) had <5% minorities, or b) had >18% minorities. (I may be perverting the numbers a bit, but my memory is rusty). It would seem that whites in the 5-18% range would have daily interactions with minorities, but stereotypes influence their views too much. Where am I going with this? I think much of the problem that small towns can have is because of racism and race-relations. I never saw racism in my area, but maybe it's because there aren't many minorities.

[Ava]

22. you associate religion and politics in the south with race apparently

i didn't mention race at all, so i'm not sure where this is coming from.

28.37% of people in my are black, btw. many small towns in alabama are more diverse than many large cities.

[crimsonblue]

26. I think religion and race do play a big role in community identity and politics

to ignore it, I think, is a bit disingenuous. Am I going to say that people in Alabama are more racist than people in Kansas? No, because there's no way I could verify an accusation like that. But history plays an important role in shaping society as we see it today, and I think the ugly history of the south more of a visceral effect on southern society than it does, say, Kansas.

[Ava]

31. i think racism plays a role too in southern politics

if you want to get into a discussion about why racism exists in the south, fine... but what i don't understand is you responding to a post of mine about religion in the south with a response about race.

i don't believe population and the percentage of minorites in that population are the cause of southern racism... think about where the civil rights movement happened, and maybe then you'll start to see why people in the south may be racist. it's sad, but it's the reality here - many southern whites(particularly men) are still not over the civil rights movement.

[crimsonblue]

32. It was probably wrong of me to lump religion and race together

but thanks for the good dialogue. You helped get rid of some of my stereotypes about the South.

I agree that the Civil Rights movement has had a big impact on society in the, especially among white males. A group in power never wants to see its power diminish, or feel their sense of entitlement slip away.

[Ava]

34. exactly.. it is what turned the south Republican

I'm glad to see that my generation and younger seem to be growing up with less of the closed mindedness and racism that exists in many small towns.. there's still a long long way to go though. Race issues are slowly getting better in the south.. but slowly. In other areas little to no progress are being made... for example homophobia is a live and thriving in the south. have you ever heard of billy jack gaither? he was murded about an hour from my house - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/billyjack/

Religion (specifically christian fundamentalism) in the south is part of the reason that homophobia finds such a good home in small towns in the south.

I'm a Christian who is pissed off that the words of Christ seemed ignored in many 'christian' churches.. and I'm pissed off that the religion has been turned into a pulpit for hate and close mindedness - which finds a comfortable home in the south. The bastardization of Christianity is part of why the south remains as conservative and bassackwards as it is in many areas.

[geardaddy]

19. That's what I thought

when I first read this. I think "Crazy fundie shit=Plymouth, western Hennepin Cty, Anoka, Eden Prairie and Eagan."

[AlCzervik]

20. i gave to Eltink several times after Batshit crazy woman forgot her mic was during Hardball.

that was awesome, he raised over a million a few days all because of her gaping stupid maw. Big let down of course that he lost but maybe he'll get it in 2010.

[geardaddy]

28. BSC Bachmann

gets elected because of idiot third party douches that think they have a chance of winning.

[Ava]

10. my small town is filled with "fundies"

megachurches aren't the only place christian fundamentalists attend church.

hell, i'd say about 99% of my small town(which has waaay too many churches for such a small town) is "born-again" conservative evangelicals.

i'm a christian, but i'm not a "fundamentalist", which is what a majority of people around here are.

[Ava]

9. personally, i can't stand my small town and can't wait to get out in the fall

but to each their own.

i'm curious how much "a time" is and how small the small town you write about it. i've lived in my small town for over 10 years, and i can't wait to get out.

also, i don't hear liberals bad mouthing small towns... :shrug:

[crimsonblue]

12. I guess the liberal bad mouthing was a straw man argument

mea culpa.


I lived with my grandparents for two months in the summer every year from ages 5-15. I got to know the people of the area pretty well. My grandparents live in a town with ~200 people, and they own an insurance business in a nearby town of about ~3500. Both my parents came from towns <4000 people.

My hometown is also probably considered a small town at about 40,000 people. It seemed like the perfect size to me. The diversity was limited (~4% African-American, ~5% latino), but I never saw any racism or rejection of minorities. It's like we were all people living in the town who happened to have different skin colors.

Now, do I prefer a larger town? Yes. I love living in Lawrence (~80,000 and close to KC metro area), but I when I settle down and have a family, I wouldn't mind moving to a smaller town if need be.

[Ava]

16. well small town kansas sounds a lot better than small town alabama

which in my experience tends to be close minded, conservative, born-again fundamentalist filled, nosy as hell about other people's business, and very very upper-class driven.. which is really the upper middle class trying to act as if they're upper-class since they're in a small town - and they treat anyone outside of their small social circle like shit.

my small town was a mill town, and now all the jobs have been shipped to mexico for cheaper labor.. so add unemployment to the list i made and you have a description of my hell.

but like i said, to each their own.

[crimsonblue]

21. Kansas small towns are definitely different.

There isn't the history of conflict between whites and blacks in Kansas that pervades through society, unlike Alabama. However, with the influx of latino immigrants into SW Kansas, some towns in that area are getting pretty polarized and disgusting. Like I said in the OP, there's assholes in small towns and assholes in big towns.

[Ava]

25. i didn't mention race in my post at all

i didn't mention race in any of my posts.. yet you keep turning each post into something about race.

you know what irks me? is people associating small town alabama = racism

the south has problems with race issues.. yes. however, people in my small town seem to be much more comfortable with minorities than people in some larger towns that lock the doors of their car as soon as they see a black man. :shrug:

[crimsonblue]

30. The reason I brought up race

(I admit bringing it up), because I am trying to explain-- probably to myself-- why there seems to be a disconnect between your small town in Alabama and the small towns I grew up in. I think race does have an influence, but of course it would be stupid of me to say that your town is the way it is because of racism. I think another reason that your town is more fervent religiously is because unemployment is higher than in Kansas (just an assumption. feel free to shoot me down on this). I see a direct correlation between unemployment/poverty and religion. From my experience, people turn to religion as a coping mechanism of sorts for problems in their lives and society. With religion, you get a support group and a loving God who wants you to do awesome, but it also makes you more vulnerable to extreme idealogy.

[arcadian]

33. Have you ever heard of Bleeding Kansas?

It was one of the causes for the U.S. Civil War.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

36. "There isn't the history of conflict between whites and blacks in Kansas"

Possibly unrelated, but Bleeding Kansas and the fights over slavery out there DEFINITELY occurred.

[crimsonblue]

38. There is a history of conflict,

culminating in the Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka. I didn't intend to sound as if there weren't.

[MadBadger]

17. Its the "small town" Americans who are bad mouthing liberals

They say us city folk arent living in "Real America"

[crimsonblue]

24. look at my reply above you. n/t

[MadBadger]

27. Its not a race thing that Im speaking to

Its the opinion that Sarah Palin expressed so much when she went to small town America, that they were the real Americans. I heard the same thing from several people on Right American Feeling Wronged. The media perpetuates this bullshit when they talk of "The Heart of America" in those small towns.

[geardaddy]

29. Bingo.

[crimsonblue]

35. I meant reply #12. n/t

[MadBadger]

37. A town of 40,000 isnt a small town. Its just a town

[Rambis]

39. I love small town america

My wife forgot to tell me to get some cilantro the other day- She called the grocery store and said there will be a guy coming through with only cottage cheese please have him get some cilantro.
The clerk told me, "hey your wife called you need cilantro" I got it and I was on my way.

[crimsonblue]

40. if you lived in a big city with all the modern necessities

she could just call you on her iPhone 3g and tell you herself. :P

[Rambis]

41. True that

i went tracfone which is a bit like carrier pigeon so I only carry it for emergencies.