L O S T

[graywarrior]

The Incident

Jack's decision to set things right on the island is met with some strong resistance by those close to him, and Locke assigns Ben a difficult task.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

1. Heard its gonna be a thriller season finale.

Like usual. And that several regulars might not make it out alive...at least "alive" as we know it. I have no idea who, so I couldn't even post spoilers if I wanted to (which I wouldn't).

[graywarrior]

2. There's an interview with "Jack" after tonight's preview

He makes an interesting statement about what people "out there" (meaning us) believe and how they are so wrong.

[question everything]

86. Where is that interview? (nt)

[charlie and algernon]

3. All I gotta say is, the lounge better be quiet tonight

I want no disruptions while it's on.

[graywarrior]

4. I will NOT be here

Unless my world gets all fucked up by whatever happens.

[charlie and algernon]

7. well I think that's just a given

I'm fully expecting them to totally blow our minds tonight.

[graywarrior]

5. BTW, this from DarkUFO

Is this an older Juliet standing behind Ben and Sun?

[rainbow4321]

24. Which fits in with their other spoiler of

Someone who saw the actor who plays Jin leaving the makeup trailer made up like an old man.
So Jin and Sun may very well get reunited but she's young and he's elderly???

Ya know...all this talk about "do this and it will keep our plane from ever crashing"...it's not like they would all be better off...Kate was on her way to the States in handcuffs, Locke was in a wheelchair for life, Jin and Sun had the worst marriage ever. WHY would they want to make it so their plane never crashes?

[graywarrior]

26. Every one of them was fucked up.

Who knows what's real and what's not anymore.

[question everything]

142. Agree. This is what I commented last week

why would they want to prevent the accident, when Kate will end up in jail and Jack will never have met her?

But, as we've seen with both Jack and Juliet, they'd rather not have met their loved ones only to lose them.

[HereSince1628]

6. What was lost was found, and then returned home and then returned and then

I just gave up.

[Fleshdancer]

8. I'm soooo excited about this episode

Well, technically, I'm excited about these 2 episodes. I hear it's going to be absolutely mind blowing. :bounce:

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. !#$%&^ church scheduled the monthly board meeting for tonight.

My VCR isn't set up properly and my A/V geek is out of town. (Hubby's away on business)

I have no idea how to record on the DVD player even though I do have some recordable DVDs.

AAAGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fleshdancer]

11. you can watch it online tomorrow

plus the online versions on abc.com have limited commercials.

[Pacifist Patriot]

21. I have watched it online, but it's the thought of having to wait until tomorrow. Wah!

[underpants]

14. Do you have a loving and understanding God?

God, I ...uh..well... it was Lost

God: Quiet! I am watching it now!

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. *snort*

[swimboy]

53. You're too much.

:thumbsup:

[underpants]

10. I heard that Jack and Sawyer are going to kiss

[Dogtown]

12. Thanks for the spoiler, jackass n/t

[underpants]

13. *

I was kidding. Did I forget to put that in the first post?

[Dogtown]

15. GOTCHA!

Haven't a clue what you guys are talking about, but figured you were mucking about, so i laid that little ambush!

:fistbump:

[hibbing]

45. snort

Hi,
That was sweet, thanks for the chuckle while my brain hurts trying to figure out what the heck is going on with this show!

Peace

[Fleshdancer]

16. It's about damn time

The tension between those two has been dragging on for many seasons now. :D

[graywarrior]

18. You wish

Oops, I'm projecting....I wish.

[question everything]

87. That was one way to show love

:evilgrin:

[underpants]

17. *SPOILER* alert- pay close attention at the start of the show

that will be the beginning

[graywarrior]

19. Will there be a test after?

[underpants]

20. Yes

but it will be in hieroglyphics

[graywarrior]

27. Will it be like a urine test?

or a blood test.

[Midlodemocrat]

43. Should I take notes?

[swimboy]

56. Hey, sweetness.

Been missin' ya.

:loveya:

[Midlodemocrat]

63. OMG!!! I Miss you so much!!!!! Where have you been?????

We have to get together. I'm jonesing for a swimboy fix.


:loveya:

:loveya:

[question everything]

89. To what?

That the two guys - one of them was Jacob - were apparently in the 17th century, as was that boat?

[redqueen]

130. The rug or fabric...

there were characters along the top of it.

[Fleshdancer]

23. Interesting interview for the die hards:

This link contains 5 videos. The first four are from an interview with Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof discussing this season. If you don't want any spoilers, do NOT watch the 4th video.

The 5th video is just two people talking about various shows and isn't worth watching.

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2009/05/totally-lost-doc-jensen-video.html

[alsame]

25. ***Mild Spoiler***

The producers' code name for this finale is "The Fork in the Outlet" because it's supposed to be very shocking.

[charlie and algernon]

32. well two minutes in and we've met a real life jacob

AND a completed statue.


I think this episode is going to be INSANE

[MadBadger]

28. THe Motherfuckin Black Rock!

[underpants]

30. Stop making me read this thread!!!

We have it taping on TiVo. Watching Olivia now-little one is about to go to bed.

[Fleshdancer]

29. OMG OMG OMG!!!!

My head is exploding and it's only the first few minutes! :wow:

[fishwax]

31. .

:wow:

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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Donate and you'll be automatically entered into our daily contest.
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[charlie and algernon]

34. holy shit! Grovelbot has figured out the meaning of LOST!!!!!

[fishwax]

35. Could Grovelbot be Jacob?

[charlie and algernon]

36. Vincent! Rose! Bernard!

we SOOOO need an episode next season of how they lived together these last 3 years.

[MadBadger]

37. Actually, I think those would be good webisodes.

[charlie and algernon]

39. totally

though the fact that these new people torched their cabin, we may see more of them this episode.

[MadBadger]

40. That was Jacob's Cabin actually

[charlie and algernon]

41. then why was there a painting of Vincent?

[MadBadger]

42. That was a cabin, Rose and Bernard have a hut made of what looks like bamboo and stuff

And honestly, why wouldnt Jacob's cabin have a picture of Vincent in it? How would Rose or Bernard paint that picture? Also, Ilana didnt find him there so they are going to the statue, which is where Alpert took Locke to find Jacob.

[swimboy]

49. Best lines

We're retired.

It's always something with you people.

[underpants]

134. "Locke": Can I ask you a question? Ben: I'm a pisces

:rofl:

no wait THAT IS IMPORTANT pisces is two fish... Jacob and the other guy are two people....uh..... :think: :spank:

[rainbow4321]

158. Sawyer: "This don't look like LAX" n/t

[Fleshdancer]

38. Holy hell. It's one lostgasm after another

at this rate, I'll be asleep before the episode ends. :rofl:

[Fleshdancer]

44. Is it wrong of me to admire Juliet's breasts in that shirt?

I would love to know what bra she's wearing. I would buy it in a heartbeat. :rofl:

[slay]

105. I noticed too - Juliet was smokin hot tonight

I'm a bit worried about her what with how the finale ended and all.. yikes!

[hibbing]

46. wow

Hi,
Good golly, ten minutes left, that was some freaky stuff!!!!!

Peace

[Fleshdancer]

47. AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!

Juliet! Jacob!

:wtf:

[charlie and algernon]

48. Locke!

who the HELL is he?????


Ben's speech at the end may have been the best of the series.

[graywarrior]

50. Mudderfucker

What in hell was that?????

[Fleshdancer]

I think....

Locke is really the guy at the beginning who said he wanted to kill Jacob.

[charlie and algernon]

52. that's what I'm thinking too

though I was bracing for Jacob to say, "yes, he is Moses."

[swimboy]

54. Ha!

That crossed my mind, too.

[graywarrior]

51. 2010?????

7 months????

[graywarrior]

55. How does Locke get other people to do his dirty work?

[Fleshdancer]

57. That wasn't Locke

that was the anti-Jacob. It has to be.

[graywarrior]

58. No, it wasn't.

Things are really in the shitter now.

[Fleshdancer]

59. Here's what I'm wondering....

Where in the hell does Charles Widmore fit into all of this, or does he???

Last season we were lead to believe that a "war" was coming given the conversation between Ben and Widmore. How in the hell does that fit in now? What I saw tonight seems well above the Ben vs Widmore thing and now seems like two gods fighting each other while using humans as their pawns.

[slay]

106. My guess is....

the island is no longer hidden with Jacob dead. Widmore is coming! Desmond too - don't ask me how or why - i've seen no such spoiler, I just feel it. :)

[charlie and algernon]

60. that was guy sitting on the beach in the beginning of the ep, I bet

[graywarrior]

61. Yeah, I wonder who he's visited in the past

[Robbien]

74. Did you notice in that scene Jacob was wearing white while the anti-Jacob was all in black

A hint to who is the good guy and who isn't?

[charlie and algernon]

62. Could Sayid be the skeleton found in the van back in season 2?

[Fleshdancer]

64. I thought that was Ben's father??? n/t

[charlie and algernon]

66. hm, it's possible.

i need to watch this episode a few more times to figure what the hell just happened, lol.

[graywarrior]

65. What was the name on his suit...I think it was Horace.

What's Ben's Dad's name?


His dad's name is Roger.

[Fleshdancer]

67. Horace was on the park bench....

Ben had a beer with his dad on his birthday and then killed him in the van. Ben put on a gas mask and shortly after, the Dharma people died. Ben walked over to Horace on the park bench and closed his dead eyelids.

[graywarrior]

68. Well, Sayid's jacket belonged to Horace...or maybe Jack's

I just saw Sayid grab Horace's but didn't see who put it on.

[MorningGlow]

116. .

Delete--never mind

[charlie and algernon]

69. Sayid took Horace's uniform

[Fleshdancer]

72. OOOH

I forgot that part :wow:

[wickerwoman]

98. That was definitely Ben's dad

because the suit said "Roger Workman" and that was Ben's dad's name. Plus they show him gassing his dad in the car.

But... there's an episode where they pull the map to Jacob's cabin out of Horace's breast pocket when the skeleton is lying on the heap of Dharma corpses and there's a slim chance that's Sayid and not actually Horace. But why would either of them know the way to Jacob's cabin?

F'in Lost!!!

[SoxFan]

118. aka Skeletor

One of my favorite Sawyerisms...

[darkstar]

70. So who knows the Bible?

And lineages and sibling rivalries?

Did Jacob have a brother? Is Ben Abraham or something making God? In Bible, whom begat who?

Egypt for sure on the statue right? Land of Goshen?

A quick google revealed that Jacob's brother is Esau?

[charlie and algernon]

71. the biggest rivalry in the bible is Cain and Able

it could also be Isaac and Ismael too

[graywarrior]

73. We figured at my house it was Cain & Able

BTW, here's a link to ABC's LOST message board
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=mb&cat=33026

[darkstar]

76. Hey, it's a Dead song.....

"My Brother Esau"
Words by John Perry Barlow; music by Bob Weir
Copyright Ice Nine Publishing; used by permission

My brother Esau killed a hunter
Back in 1969
And before the killing was done,
His inheritance was mine.
But his birthright was a wand to wave
Before a weary band.
Esau gave me sleeplessness
And a piece of moral land.

My father favored Esau,
Who was eager to obey
All the bloody wild commandments
The Old Man shot his way.
But all this favor ended
When my brother failed at war.
He staggered home
And found me in the door.


Esau skates on mirrors anymore...
He meets his pale reflection at the door.
Yet sometimes at night I dream
He's still that hairy man,
Shadowboxing the Apocalypse
And wandering the land.
Shadowboxing the Apocalypse
And wandering the land.

Esau holds a blessing;
Brother Esau bears a curse.
I would say that the blame is mine
But I suspect it's something worse.
The more my brother looks like me,
The less I understand
The silent war that bloodied both our hands.
Sometimes at night, I think I understand.

It's brother to brother and it's man to man
And it's face to face and it's hand to hand...
We shadowdance the silent war within.
The shadowdance, it never ends...
Never ends, never ends.
Shadowboxing the Apocalypse, yet again...
Yet again.
Shadowboxing the Apocalypse,
And wandering the land.

[graywarrior]

77. Esau and Jacob

Parshat Toldot tells the tale of the two children born to Isaac and Rebecca, Esau and Jacob.

The Jewish tradition teaches much about the greatness of Jacob, who is known also by his other name Israel. Jacob is the symbol of fidelity to God, the symbol of goodness. Our entire people have assumed his identity.

But his brother Esau is seen as a demonic character. The very name Esau evokes images of mayhem and bloodshed. Though his midrashic reputation is unchallenged, when one reads the biblical text, one wonders if he really deserves it.

We know that Esau was a hunter, an occupation that, despite any ominous overtones, is not intrinsically evil. Perhaps it is the comparison with Jacob that has put Esau in a poor light, though does that alone justify the deep enmity for Esau transmitted across millennia?

We might claim that only due to his descendants -- most notably Amalek -- has Esau earned his inauspicious reputation. Alternatively, we may assume that the actions and attitudes of his descendants helped form the midrashic reading of the texts.

[Goblinmonger]

79. But Cain already killed Abel.

I need to just process a bit.

[Pacifist Patriot]

119. Younger sibling ending up with the birth right of the elder sibling is a recurring theme in...

Genesis. Jacob was a usurper and secured his father's blessing through treachery.

I thought this episode was particularly rich in mythology and theology, but then we tend to see things we're looking for. Ben's faith in Jacob seems a bit fundy, no?

[graywarrior]

75. Richard's Latin response

When asked "What lies under the statue's shadow?", Richard responds "Ille qui nos omnes servabit", which means "He who will save us all!"

[underpants]

80. Cool thanks

[slay]

107. Yes thank you - I was wondering what Richard's answer was

But shouldn't it have been "He who would have saved us all if it wasn't for stupid Ben and fake Locke"? :P

[underpants]

78. I have to post that my wife completely called the Locke is not Locke- loophole thing

absolutely nailed it in the first 20 minutes or so. We just finished watching it on TiVo.

[Fleshdancer]

82. Good for her! It took me most of tonight to come to the same conclusion

It should have occured to me the first time Locke said he was going to kill Jacob, but it didn't set in for me until I saw his smiling corpse. :(

[Robbien]

84. The loophole being the anti-Jacob cannot kill Jacob himself

that he has to get an intermediary to kill Jacob?

[Fleshdancer]

88. I wonder about that too...

What exactly was the loophole? Was it that "anti-Jacob" couldn't kill Jacob but any human could? Or did the loophole contain a human that Jacob did NOT request/touch to come to the island be the one to kill him?

Ben believed in him but was not recognized. This must be a BIG deal.

[Robbien]

93. And does the bomb reset the battle?

Right now Jacob lost. Does the bomb reset everything? And if so, where/when do things reset?

And if this is a fight between good and evil, who is the good guy? Jacob or the other guy? Jacob was the one who wanted the humans of the BlackRock to land so that corruption and war would ensue.

[underpants]

108. A few episodes ago I mentioned to my wife that all of this was to prevent Locke from ever getting on

the island

they knew what was coming from Oceanic 815 crashing so they (Widmore/Hawkings/Jacob) tried to prevent the chain of events that lead to the crash from happening-starting with stopping the release of energy from happening. Farraday was created by Widmore and Hawkings for that purpose.

[question everything]

91. I did not get it. what was the loophole comment by Jacob

about?

[Robbien]

94. Jacob and the other guy on the beach in the beginning

watching the Black Rock sail in. The other guy said to Jacob "do you know how much I would like to kill you". Jacob says "yeah, but the loophole you know".

[question everything]

145. Thank you. So many details and so confusing

[slay]

109. I knew as soon as they showed Lapidis what was in the box

(Quick shout out for my man Lapidis) I was like - fuck it's got to be Locke's body. Why are there two Lockes? This MUST be the loophole the guy on the beach at the beginning was talking about!

Yeah the hints were there if you could put um together. Good job team! :)

Oh and now is it any wonder Jacob never appeared to Ben? He probably knew - first time they would ever meet - Ben would kill him. (or at least try - he sure seems dead but ya never know with Lost)

[The2ndWheel]

81. So Christian wasn't speaking on Jacob's behalf?

Before they burned the cabin, there was something said about someone else living there, and Jacob not being there for a while. When Jacob said help me to Locke, that wasn't Jacob? That was whoever is Locke now?

[Fleshdancer]

85. I'm curious about that too. And what about Claire????

The Claire thing really bothers me.

[The2ndWheel]

92. Plus there has to be something with Locke replacing Christian as the dead body on the plane

Did Christian replace someone? What was his reason for being the dead body on the plane if he did? So that Claire would trust, especially with Aaron's fate, whoever it was that was in the body of her father? Did whoever Locke is now need Richard's trust to get him closer to Jacob? Is that why Locke of 2007 sent Richard to get the bullet from the real Locke's leg, so he would go back to 1954, etc, see Richard, and build up that trust(plus end up as the dead body which told Richard to do it)?

Damn 8 month wait.

[Robbien]

90. Appears he wasn't. My guess, the other guy on the beach with Jacob in the beginning

has been using Christian's image.

[slay]

110. You are probably right - the other guy from the beach can

take the image of anyone who came to the island dead. But only in 1977 does he have physical form. In 2007, Christian could never touch anyting (at least I don't think he could)... hrmm...

[soleft]

122. Anti Jacob seems to be able to take any form, including.....

The Smoke Monster

[hibbing]

83. in the shadow of the statue

Hi,
Good golly, I will have to watch this thing about 5 times to even get more seriously messed up. Whoops, thanks for answering what Mr. Mabeline said Gray!

Peace

[Yavin4]

95. Total Trivia Note - The Not Jacob Guy On The Beach

That actor makes it 4 alums from the HBO show, "Deadwood", that have appeared on LOST.

Paula Malcomson who play Trixie on Deadwood played an Other for two ep. in Season 2.

Robin Weigert who played Calamity Jane on Deadwood played Juliet's sister.

Kim Dickens who played Joanie Stubbs on Deadwood played Sawyer's baby mommy.

Titus Welliver who was also on Deadwood played the second guy on the beach.

[Duer 157099]

100. Also, a few episodes back, William Sanderson was on

(EB Farnum from Deadwood)

Is it just me, or does anyone else recognize the parallels to Carnivale?

[question everything]

101. Who is the actor that played Jacob? (nt)

[slay]

111. That would be Mark Pellegrino

If you watch Dexter - he played Rita's abusive ex-husband.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0671032/

[question everything]

160. Never watched Dexter, but he was, earlier this evening, on CSI

which was kinda strange, since we just saw him yesterday.

[hibbing]

96. fade to white

Hi,
Uh, okay, so what happened with the white flash when she wacked the detonator?
Good golly this episode screwed my mind sideways...chuckle.

Peace

[Yavin4]

97. LOST Theory - Richard Was On That Black Rock Ship

That's how he met Jacob.

[wickerwoman]

99. I thought that too...

but then they call him Ricardus which is more Latin than English/Spanish making me think he's a lot older.

I'm pretty sure Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard though. Their clothes were decayed by about thirty years and they found the black and white backgammon stones in their pockets. I think they moved into the caves after the incident.

[Duer 157099]

102. OK so does anyone want to fill me in?

I checked my DVR earlier to make sure it was scheduled to record, but there must have been some sort of magnetic anomaly and it didn't. I noticed this at the last 10 minutes, so saw the meeting of "Locke" and Ban and Jacob, and the ending with Juliet supposedly detonating the bomb with a rock...

So what'd I miss?

[grace0418]

103. I would say your best bet is to watch it online. It was two hours long and crammed

full of stuff. Most of which I haven't worked out in my head yet.

[slay]

112. It appears to be up at abc.go.com

As well as on the usual torrent site. It would be doing the show a great injustice just to describe it. However, if that is what you want, imdb.com should have a full episode summary - usually quite long - later today.

[Duer 157099]

140. The abc player seems to not work for me

I've tried everything

Are there tricks to this?

[question everything]

141. Recap (print) from TV Guide

http://www.tvguide.com/Episode-Recaps/Lost/Lost-Episode-Recap-1006045.aspx

I think that with ABC you have to download something. I remember when I had to do this once, I first hesitated but then clicked on the OK.

[Duer 157099]

143. Yep, and apparently only in IE, not firefox (?)

anyway, it's working now...

thanks

[slay]

156. Yeah I don't like their stupid player either - probably a timezone issue

I've gotten it to work before - had to change the timezone on my PC clock - you HAVE to be in correct timezone - so if you are east coast - you HAVE to be eastern time - and your clock can not be off by more than like 30 mins. Yeah - that's fucked up but oh well.

In fact, I dislike them so much (although the quality is excellent) that I download the torrents of it through thepiratebay.org instead.

There are also various rapidshare type links with eps. I'll send ya a message to your inbox. :)

[omega minimo]

104. Jacob and Esau -------- Colossus of Rhodes

http://screenrant.com/lost-season-5-finale-review-discussion-rob-8424/


http://www.essex1.com/people/paul/bible24.html


http://www.rhodesguide.com/rhodes/colossus_rhodes.php


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_of_Rhodes

The Colossus of Rhodes, a wonder of the ancient world

The colossus of Rhodes, as it was - incorrectly - imagined standing at the entrance or Mandraki harbour.
The Colossus of Rhodes is familiar to almost everyone. Its history begins with the siege of Demetrios Poliorketes, successor of Alexander the Great, in 305 BC. When Demetrios was defeated, he abandoned all his siege machinery on Rhodes. The Rhodians decided to express their pride by building a triumphal statue of their favourite god, Helios. The task was assigned to the sculptor Chares of Lindos, a pupil of Lysippos himself, and twelve years (from 304 to 292 BC) were needed to complete it.

From its building to its destruction lies a time span of merely 56 years. Yet the Colossus earned a place in the famous list of Wonders. "But even lying on the ground, it is a marvel", said Pliny the Elder. The Colossus of Rhodes was not only a gigantic statue. It was a symbol of unity of the people who inhabited that beautiful Mediterranean island of Rhodes.

To build the statue, the workers cast the outer bronze skin parts. The base was made of white marble, and the feet and ankle of the statue were first fixed. The structure was gradually erected as the bronze form was fortified with an iron and stone framework. To reach the higher parts, an earth ramp was built around the statue and was later removed. When the Colossus was finished, it stood about 33 metres (110 ft) high. And when it fell, "few people can make their arms meet round the thumb", wrote Pliny.

A strong earthquake hit Rhodes at around 226 BC. The city was badly damaged, and the Colossus was broken at its weakest point - the knee. The Rhodians received an immediate offer from Ptolemy III Eurgetes of Egypt to cover all restoration costs for the toppled monument. However, an oracle was consulted and forbade the re-erection. Ptolemy's offer was declined.

For almost a millennium, the statue lay broken in ruins. In AD 654, the Arabs invaded Rhodes. They disassembled the remains of the broken Colossus and sold them to a Jew from Syria. It is said that the fragments had to be transported to Syria on the backs of 900 camels.

Let us clear a misconception about the appearance of the Colossus. It has long been believed that the Colossus stood in front of the Mandraki harbour, one of many in the city of Rhodes, straddling its entrance. Given the height of the statue and the width of the harbour mouth, this picture is rather impossible than improbable. Moreover, the fallen Colossus would have blocked the harbour entrance. Recent studies suggest that it was erected either on the eastern promontory of the Mandraki harbour, or even further inland. In any case, it never straddled the harbour entrance.

Although we do not know the true shape and appearance of the Colossus, modern reconstructions with the statue standing upright are more accurate than older drawings. Although it disappeared from existence, the ancient World Wonder inspired modern artists such as French sculptor, Auguste Bartholdi, best known by his famous work, the 'Statue of Liberty' in New York. Today, the Colossus is regarded as one of the Seven Wonders of the World and a masterpiece of art and engineering.


Helios

http://www.rbhs.w-cook.k12.il.us/litfinal/helios.htm

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/hgodsandgoddesses/g/Helios.htm


http://www.areopagus.net/grkbeasts.htm

[Fleshdancer]

113. Should we like Jacob?

He seemed nice enough while watching the show last night, but at the end of the day, was he? He had a god-like status but it appeared he used his power to screw with people. I also wonder if there's a significance to the fact that he visited both Hurley and Sayid AFTER they returned home from the island. Why not Desmond?

[The2ndWheel]

120. Was that Jacob?

Seems odd that he would meet up with all the people from the island who would one day start the chain of events that would end up with whoever Locke was killing him.

Maybe Jacob did meet with them, and Jack and the gang all changed something when they blew up the bomb, or maybe they didn't change anything.

If whatever happened happened, then they didn't change anything. However, if Jacob is dead, then maybe they did change something...or, of course, maybe they didn't.

So is season 6 all about the history of the island? We saw Jacob and the other guy looking at the ship. We keep hearing how Richard has been on the island for a long time. Then we have all those connections between the Oceanic passengers, Jacob(or whoever) visiting them, some going back in time and causing things to happen one way or another, and all the flashbacks from earlier seasons that got them on the plane in the first place. Now that we see Ben seems like he was never anything, which calls Widmore and Hawking and their families into question, and even Richard looks more like a cog in the machine, and Locke is dead dead, not just just dead, and Jacob seem to be dead, and everyone else was a few feet away from a hydrogen bomb explosion, it'll be fun to see where they're going with the story...after the 8 month freakin' wait.

[question everything]

146. Any suggestion of what year it is, when the episode starts

with Jacob and the other on the beach?

[wickerwoman]

147. I think the ship is the Black Rock

which makes it 1845 according to the ship's journal that Widmore bought at the auction.

Then someone pointed out that dynamite wasn't invented until 1866 so in The Lost Experience they say the ship was lost in 1881.

Anyway, mid 19th century.

[question everything]

149. Thanks. So if Richard came with this ship

this means that both he and Jacob - neither appears to age - have been there for more than 100 years.

Interesting, Jacob obviously has been outside the island (how?) yet it appears that Richard has never left. And what were they doing there in the first place? I do hope that eventually all these questions be resolved.

[graywarrior]

150. Richard has left the island several times

[Pacifist Patriot]

124. I'm thinking Abrams knows his archetypes.

Every time I'm impressed by the depth of this show it goes even deeper. That or I'm reading too much into it.

[MorningGlow]

125. Gods

Gods are not good or evil the way we think of good and evil. Good and evil are what humans apply to things that just "are", gods included. So Jacob is not all-good and the other guy (Esau, anti-Jacob, whatever we're going to call him) is not all-evil. They just do the things they need to do (in Jacob's case, bring people to the island repeatedly until the humans "get it right"), and if we apply labels to it, that's our (human) problem.

Black and white and polar opposites have been a running theme of the show since the first season, but again, "black" is not "bad" and "white" is not "good"; instead, they are the balance for one another. Like Jin's wedding vows--that he and Sun will never be apart because that's like the earth being apart from the sky. Both polarities need the other to exist. Too much of one or the other spins the world out of control.

[LanternWaste]

114. Bloody Hell.

Bloody Hell. That is all. :)

[Pacifist Patriot]

121. And speaking of blood, that absolutely has to have been the bloodiest episode yet.

[LanternWaste]

129. The beating that Jack took...

The beating that Jack took was epic. Jack & Sawyer needed to get that out of their systems.

[NJmaverick]

115. If like me, you found that episode too much to wrap your head around

check out this excellent summary at the lostpedia

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Incident,_Parts_1_%26_2

[hedgehog]

117. Out in left field, but I swear the music on this episode has many of

the same themes and melodies as the Star Trek movie. Yes, I know it is the same composer. Did he run out of time, or did he just like this music a lot?


Or maybe





next season we find out that it was old Spock was sitting in the cabin!

[charlie and algernon]

132. It is the same composer

Michael Giacchino. I did notice that he used the show's greatest hits and variations of the greatest themes of the show throughout the finale. the whole theme playing during the Rose and Bernard scene was a variation of the love-Death piano theme.

[Pacifist Patriot]

123. So what is with the inversion of the LOST title screen at the end?

I wonder why Abrams concluded with a white screen instead of the usual black. The symbolism in this episode is absolutely mind blowing and is going to take quiet awhile to unpack for me.

[MorningGlow]

126. Everything's flipped, now

Maybe the opposite of what it was previously. Also continuing the black/white Yin/Yang balance thing...

[MadBadger]

136. 1. Because the symbolism is a hydrogen bomb detonated and 2...

I dont think JJ Abrams has much to do with the show anymore, things are now Cuse and Lindelof

[MorningGlow]

127. "Aw, HELL no."

Rose and Bernard (and Vincent) ROCK. That is all. :)

[underpants]

133. I thought that was a nice touch

they let us see how much the other survivors were chasing their own tails and surely being manipulated... but then "Lafleur" and Julia had pretty much setting into the same thing until Jack et al showed back up.

[MorningGlow]

135. Yeah--totally different perspective

All these seasons we've bought into the "wage war, fight da power" drama and fury of the main characters. Nice to see a different, laid-back approach in Rose and Bernard.

[Robbien]

152. It's always something with you people

Ha.

Which is basically what the guy on the beach with Jacob said about the Black Rock sailing in.

[The2ndWheel]

128. I hate when I miss the obvious things while watching

Didn't even cross my mind while being too occupied with the current story, but as I read a review of the finale, it was brought up that the hole that Jack threw the bomb into would look to be the same basic opening that Jack and Locke look down at the end of season 1. Obviously that's where the Swan was built, but while watching, it didn't even register. Sometimes I wonder if I've even watched the show before.

Jack didn't seem too eager to go down inside the hatch at the time, only to go down after he knew Kate was down there, and it sounded like Kate was the main reason Jack wanted to blow up the bomb in 77, because he lost her. Always wondered about Faraday crying when he saw the plane on TV. Do some of them remember, in some way, what happened to them in the past? Also funny how Jack and Sayid are the two who go down under the Swan and find the concrete wall that was built after the incident, and they were the two who had the bomb at the sight in the first place. That is if they didn't change what happened.

[redqueen]

131. This show delivers like Dominos.

Can't wait for next season.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

137. Okay, still in love with the show, but I'm more confused than ever.

Other than finding out that Jacob was a blonde dude with a five o'clock shadow who interacted with the various characters at certain points in their life, I was hoping for more in terms of revelations.

But I seem to have come out with more questions--so if that's not supposed to be Locke, who is it? That "Esau" guy in disguise?

Did the bomb at the end actually detionate? Yes, we all saw a white flash and then the LOST script appears, but that still doesn't answer the question. Sort of like the Sopranos finale, except at least here we will have another season to explain things.

Are there any good reviews of the episode that might explain things better? I'm still rather....um....lost.

All that being said, I can't wait until January 2010.

[question everything]

151. Try the recap on TVGuide

http://www.tvguide.com/Episode-Recaps/Lost/Lost-Episode-Recap-1006045.aspx

And I now went back and watched the first segment to realize that it was Jacob weaving, inside the foot of the statue, I suppose, with the fire in the center, and that interaction between the first two.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

163. That was actually a pretty nice, concise recap. Thanks! nt

[Ohio Joe]

138. so.... spoilers

A few things.

OK... Did anyone die? For sure?

Locke? We already knew he was dead, just not that he had been replaced by the Jacob's enemy.
Juliet? You would think the fall alone would have killed her but the island can heal her... maybe. If the blast killed her should it not also kill the rest at the top of the hole?
Jacob? I'm not sure he really died... and if he did, I don't see that as a major shocker

Yeah, some minor Dharma people died but I'm not sure any major characters died.

Next.

Juliet... WTF is with her. Lets leave the island... No, lets stop Jack... No, lets help Jack... WTF? I don't buy what she told Sawyer.

Next.

Has the past been changed? Dharma evacuated all non-essential personnel and it looks like the end of Dharma on the island but... I thought that happened when Ben helped the others kill everyone (and Ben is not old enough to do that yet).

Man, I really can't wait till next season to (hopefully) get everything cleared up.

[Ohio Joe]

139. One more...

OK, I don't really know anything about twitter but found this:

http://twitter.com/R_Alpert

A Ricardus Alpert with some interesting followers. I have no idea if any of this is related to the show or made up by someone else but some interesting stuff there.

[wickerwoman]

144. Sayid maybe?

It's not clear if he's dead at the end. He says he's not going to make it but after the blast who knows what's going to happen.

[graywarrior]

148. My head is still fucked up over that episode last night

I used to watch Sawyer as eye candy, but man, he delivered as a fine actor last night.

[MorningGlow]

154. He did, didn't he?

Great work--heartbreaking at the end. Made me long for the "good ol' days" when he was just dishing out nicknames.

[X_Digger]

153. I'm waiting for..

.. the backwards talking dwarf.

(Anyone still remember 'Twin Peaks'?)

Seriously, at this point, I just want all the questions answered. I don't care who's in luuuurv with each other, just answer some questions.

[graywarrior]

155. That dwarf would be far out even now

Truly, deeply creepy.

[LibraLiz1973]

159. Twin Peaks - still one of the bestest shows ever

[slay]

157. So... anti-Jacob (as Locke) convinces Richard to remove the bullet from real-Locke and says

for Richard to tell real-Locke (the one that flashed through time) that "to get the others back to the island, you have to die". So THAT is how anti-Jacob found his loophole - HE is the one who made John, and Richard, and Ben think that Locke would have to die to come back - knowing he (anti-Jacob) could take the form of dead people - then anti-Jacob used the image of Ben's daughter to convince Ben to do anything Locke (anti-Jacob) says. I finally get it now. I think. And no wonder Jacob never met with Ben - he probably knew Ben would be the one to kill him. Good stuff.

[graywarrior]

161. Nice analysis

Now what in hell are we going to do till the next season starts?

[slay]

166. I know right!

Argh 8 months is too long! Well, I plan on filling the gap with Entourage, Weeds, Dexter, Scrubs (yes it's back for Season 9), and Fringe when it returns.

[The2ndWheel]

162. And anti-Jacob needed to be Christian

Since Christian was Jack's dad, and anti-Jacob made Locke think the Christian in the cabin was with Jacob, and Jack was the key to getting Locke back to the island after Ben killed Locke, and Jack only began drinking and popping pills after he saw Christian after they got off the island, plus Locke told Jack that his dad said hello before Locke turned the wheel, and after Locke's death that helped Jack think that they made a mistake by leaving, which is how Locke's body gets back, and how anti-Jacob is able to get that much closer to killing Jacob since Richard trusts Locke because he saw Locke in 1954, after being told by anti-Jacob as Locke that Locke had to die, and various other times along the way, and Richard in 1977 even had Jack say not to give up on Locke, which allowed Richard to trust Locke in 2007 even though he thought Locke was different and had never seen anyone come back to life on the island.

So it's a progression. Anti-Jacob had to be Christian to get close to Locke and Jack, so that he could become Locke in order to get close to Richard and Ben, so that he could find Jacob and finally kill him. In their conversation, Jacob told anti-Jacob that everything up the end was progress. Which makes me wonder if Christian was a replacement for some other dead body, the way Locke replaced Christian on the plane to the island. Then I remember that they only have 1 season left to explain everything.

[SlutBunwalla]

164. I think you're right. And remember, Jack put Christian's shoes on Locke.

Very, very interesting.

[The2ndWheel]

170. Hawking told Jack he had to do that

Widmore reunited Locke with the Oceanic 6.

I'm not sure which side either of those two are on, as you could make a decent case either way for both of them. Are they helping Jacob, or helping to kill Jacob?

[wickerwoman]

175. And where did Christian get the white tennis shoes

he was wearing when he first appeared to Jack in Season 1?

[Happyhippychick]

165. Interesting that Christian and Locke were both in coffins on planes. I didn't get the connection

until I read your analysis.

And by the way,your analysis reminds me that I'm not really smart enough to be watching Lost. :)

[The2ndWheel]

171. But, we see the body of Locke, while we don't see the body of Christian

I have no idea what that means. Don't let my analysis fool you.

I thought the fact that Locke's name was Jeremy Bentham was a bigger deal than it turned out to be. Then again, it still might be, depending on what story they're going to tell in season 6.

[Fleshdancer]

167. I think Claire is also being used by anti-Jacob....

I just don't know if taking her was part of this plan or a part of some future plan to be unveiled in season 6. It's weird to me that people have been trying to separate her from her baby from the moment she knew she was pregnant, but it took the actions of a god (IMO) to finally make this happen.

[slay]

169. Yeah I hope to see the Claire situation more fully dealt with in season 6

And from what I've heard - it will be. (No spoilers though.) :)

[yellowdogintexas]

179. and this makes me think of Walt...he was identified by the Others as

a very special child..
do you think we will see him in season 6?

[slay]

180. Too bad he wasn't identified as

having any acting talent - his appearance this season when Locke went back to get Jack, Kate, and everyone who had left - was less than inspiring to say the least. Although I would definately NOT rule out his showing up with Charles Whidmore or Desmond at some point next season.

Which also brings to question - based on Ben's actions in the finale - Is Whidmore even really a bad guy?!?!?


8 months is too long argh i never should have watched this show until season 6 had finished airing i don't think i can stand the wait oh no ahhhhhh!!!! :P :P

no seriously i don't know if i can stand it.. heheh

[The2ndWheel]

172. Sure. If anti-Jacob was using Christian's body

then I'm in full agreement. Who or what Aaron is has always been a big mystery of the show. So yeah, Claire also has the same connection that Locke and Jack have to anti-Jacob/Christian. Jack and Claire being related only adds to it.

[SoxFan]

181. STAY AWAY FROM MY SWEET LITTLE AUSSIE MAMACITA!

That is all.

[graywarrior]

168. So why did Jacob visit Sawyer and Kate when they were kids and the rest of the

Losties as adults. Will Kate and Sawyer have a previous connection yet to be explained, which is why they are so attracted to one another?

[The2ndWheel]

174. Why did Jacob visit Sayid and Hurley only after they were off the island

You have to figure that Season 6 is going to be crazy from day 1 with the way all the gaps have to be filled in.

Another one would the the Swan. Do we see it built? We've seen it blown up, we've seen something that may or may not be the incident, we know the serial number, Radzynsky, etc. What if Desmond changed things when he turned the key? What if him turning that key in season 2 ultimately causes the Swan to never be built because that event eventually leads to Jack and the gang going back to stop the incident? Or, obviously, whatever happened happened, and they were the incident.

Involving the Swan, you've got Radzynsky and Sayid in 1977, you've got Jack and Sayid in 1977 with a bomb possibly causing the incident and in 2004 under the Swan looking at the cement(?) wall that has the source of energy behind it, we've got Radzynsky and Kelvin pushing buttons, Kelvin and Desmond pushing bottons, Kelvin and Sayid during the Gulf War, Desmond and Jack meeting before the island and inside the Swan.

Season 6 is going to have to be crazy.

[redqueen]

187. And he visited Juliet when she was a child too...

[Fleshdancer]

173. Something that has been nagging me....

Why didn't the anti-Jacob try to hide Locke's corpse? It seems weird to go through all this time and effort to execute this elaborate plan just to be this sloppy at the very end.

:shrug:

[Robb]

176. A bigger question: why did the "good guys" go to such lengths

...to carry it across the island to the statue foot?

I think we're going to see more of that body.

[Fleshdancer]

177. My guess is they needed to in order to convince Richard

Richard's role is to protect the leader of the Others and he also seems to be the go between for the gods and the mortals. Since Richard was deceived, I think seeing Locke's body is the only way to convince him of this.

I hope Season 6 will show us what a pissed off Richard looks like. He's usually so even tempered.

[wickerwoman]

178. Ooooo....

Like Locke becomes Jacob. All the hieroglyphs and the statue of Anubis have to do with reincarnation.

[Withywindle]

182. kick

because I am so LOST. I need to watch the finale again, and come back to this thread, and still be LOST.

[slay]

183. It was a damn good finale wasn't it?

I LOVED it. I also love these LOST and BSG threads - although I guess next season it'll be LOST and Caprica. If you haven't seen Caprica yet - DO! It's very LOST meets Dollhouse meets Battlestar. I was quite impressed with the pilot ep. All the boobies didn't hurt either. Oh did I mention you should see the unrated pilot? Heheheh. Don't wait to watch it all cut up on sci-fi (syfy) chan.

[Fleshdancer]

184. What the hell is Frank Lapidus a candidate for anyway?

This was Ilena's excuse for bringing Frank with them to show Richard the dead body. I wonder what this means? Could Lapidus be a candidate to kill the anti-Jacob? Could he be a candidate for housing Jacob's power, thus becoming Jacob?

:shrug:

[Robb]

185. Jacob went without a fight

He practically egged Ben on to stab him. So he must have a plan... I'm thinking you've got it there.

[Happyhippychick]

186. Did anyone else gasp or scream out loud when Sayid's wife got hit by the car?

I knew she was going to get killed but I had no idea that it would be so graphic. I was totally shaken up after that for the rest of the episode, only to gasp/scream again when Juliette got sucked into the hole.