My 9 y/o daughter was told by classmates that she's going to hell

[LaraMN]

because she doesn't believe in the big G. She's nine. She doesn't know what she believes. And as far as I'm concerned, she doesn't need to right now.
This is the second time this year this has happened. I recall hearing the same thing, growing up, but not until high school at which point I was confident enough in my non-belief that it didn't bother me at all. Clearly, the situation warrants a chat with her teacher. It also didn't help that the last time this happened, she confided in my Mother-In-Law, knowing that she's religious, and my MIL told her that she also believes that the non-faithful will go to hell. I'm pretty damn tolerant of other peoples' beliefs, but it's bullshit for my kid to have to listen to this kind of crap.

Ugh.

[MichiganVote]

1. When I grew up Catholic we told other kids they were going to hell all the time

It was the "F you" of the times. We also played "Saints" and burned each other at the stake or did the crucifixion thing. Purges were pretty popular too.

Point being, kids are resilient.

[LaraMN]

2. Bwahaha!

Good to hear...

[PassingFair]

3. Point being, kids can be jerks. But it's really terrible when adults say those things to your child.

I got a call one day from the latchkey daycare worker
at my 4th grader's school. Seems a bunch of kids got
together and told my daughter that she couldn't
"be in their club" because she didn't believe in god.

The daycare worker (gotta LOVE Grannie "D") busted them
up and told them that none of them were getting a free
pass and that if they wanted to form clubs like that they
could "do it in church".

She apologized profusely to me and said she felt awful
for my daughter, but my daughter hadn't even mentioned
it to me.

When I asked her about it, she told me that it happened
all the time and that she didn't care because the other
kids were dumb and she wouldn't want to be in their "club"
anyway.

This was a public school, by the way.

[seabeyond]

11. yes, i know. i grew up with a bunch of calif catholics. i would laugh.... they were so bad

and i was so good. and they would tell me i was going to hell.

i love those catholics.

[provis99]

16. hah! I was a Protestant.

We always believed Catholics were going to hell!

[CreekDog]

49. which is kinda weird isn't it?

i mean the Protestant Heaven is easy to get into, just say the word --so to speak.

but for some reason they don't believe it applies to Catholics.

[CreekDog]

48. Most Catholics think they are going to hell anyway (except the unsuffrable ones)

:evilgrin:

[gratuitous]

4. The always Dudaism

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

[kimi]

5. That's awful

Sounds like she may be getting a lot of different messages - none is more right or better than the other. I'm religious, but more than that, I believe that people have no frickin right to tell others what THEY should believe. That's just wrong.

Hugs to your girl.

[Blue-Jay]

6. The correct response:

Make "devil horns" with your fingers, stick your tongue out, and say "WHAAGLGLGLGLGLGLAAAHHH!"

[Initech]

10. If I were the teacher on duty, I'd keel over laughing if I saw a kid do that.

:rofl:

[LaraMN]

19. Yes.

This IS the correct response.

:thumbsup:

[hifiguy]

23. Perfect

And if this sort of harassment keeps happening, I'd have a little chat with the teacher and principal. The religulous should keep their cockamamie fairy tales to themselves.

[LeftinOH]

27. +1

[MorningGlow]

7. Same thing happened to my son this year (he's 7)

Apparently a bunch of kids were talking about God in school during their free time, maybe at lunch. When he said he didn't believe in God, the others were HORRIFIED!!! I don't know if any of them told him he was going to hell, though.

When he told me, we just had a chat about how different people believe lots of different things about God, and I reminded him that he does believe in God, just not an old man on a cloud. And that's what he couldn't figure out--the other kids were insisting that God was some old dude in a blue robe up in the sky, and he already KNOWS that ain't so. In the long run, he didn't take what they said to heart, and it hasn't come up again in school since.

[geardaddy]

34. Everyone knows God wears a green robe.

sheesh!

[monmouth]

46. Of course! God was an Irish Jew..Oy vey and begorrah....n/t

[femmocrat]

8. They don't know what they believe at that age.

I have students who ask me if the Easter Bunny is real! A lot of kids just repeat things they hear at church school and don't realize what they are saying. I always squelch it when they start talking about the devil and such rot. I tell them that school is not the place to discuss that!

Sorry your daughter was subjected to such ignorant thinking. Not sure what you think her teacher could do, unless she actually hears the other children being nasty to her. The teacher can't talk about the religious aspects in a public school. And if she tells the kids they can't talk about it, she will have "hell" to pay when parents start complaining.... and they will!

[LaraMN]

20. I'm sure the kids are just regurgitating what they've been taught.

And unfortunately, many parents aren't thoughtful or open-minded enough to see the value in acknowledging to their children that people believe differently, and respect for those differences is imperative. I suspect the teacher can't do much-- but I think she should be aware that my daughter's hearing this. I picked up some books on world religions, skepticism, and the like, and we've read them all. I figure the sooner she can be well-informed on the range of beliefs that exist, the sooner she will recognize ignorance for what it is. It's tough at that age!

[Initech]

9. I've been told I'm going to hell tons of times. My response?

Great! That's where all the good music and beer is going! :toast:

[blueamy66]

18. I'm gonna slide in, feet first

with a martini in one hand and a joint in the other....

Did I get that right? I stole it...

[PassingFair]

33. My response: "It's your hell, you go there." nt

[seabeyond]

12. my kids have gone thru it plenty. they started in a provate christian school so heard it often

then pull them out and hear it in public. i once went to teacher and calm discussion, i saw she was not a part, and didnt like or condone it so i was fine. told her my son could habdle it, i just wanted her to be aware

seems to happen more in the younger grades today than the higher grades. dont hear about it much now kids are middle school and high school

my kids were pretty knowledge and secure in their belief and never religious, more spiritual and comfortable with their differences. they handled it well

[krispos42]

13. "So even when I'm dead I'll still be with you?"

Would have been a great response to this sort of bullshit.


"So did God tell you that?" would have been another one.

[murielm99]

14. I remember telling one of my friends that she was going

to hell. I felt badly for her and wanted to convert her.

I couldn't help it that I was raised to think that way.

Anyway, my mother felt badly that the little girl had hurt feelings. Mom had the good grace to tell me not to say that to anyone else. I needed to be more discreet about my beliefs.

How things have changed!

[LaraMN]

22. I've been telling her to feel free to point out the obvious fact

that people who don't believe in God generally don't believe in hell, either, so it's sort of an empty threat.

[tigereye]

57. exactly! When we were kids in Catholic School, the concepts

of hell, purgatory, etc. were endlessly crammed down our throats and I think created a lot of fear and anxiety since we were young enough to take it all literally. But somehow I had evidently figured out later that it didn't make much sense and that people with different conceptions of god, or no conception, shouldn't deserve any punishment, enough to argue about it with a fundie-type peer. The concept of hell is a man-made one, and a very sad one. It's too bad that little kids or older kids are saddled with these concepts or never have them explained in a reasonable way- the New Testament Christ was intended to be a tolerant and accepting one, not the fire and brimstone one of the Old Testament or various Protestant churches.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. The proper response to such an assertion

(and we mainstream Lutherans used to get it from fundamentalists) is, "Fortunately, it's not up to you."

But I DO like the response of making "devil horns" and going "BWA-HA-HA."

[Bake]

17. Nice to know those good fundie parents are raising their kids right ...

You know, to be another generation of haters.

:sarcasm: (in case you need it)

Bake

[HopeHoops]

21. Just reply, "I'll see you there."

[Angry Dragon]

24. Have her say this:

'No, I am not going to hell. My mother says we are going to Olive Garden to see breast feeders.'

[LynneSin]

25. Kids are shits like that - they said I would go to hell because I listened to Devil's music

Of course I was a few years older and knew these kids were judgemental assholes who hardly lived by the teachings of Jesus, but that's another story.

I hope your daughter is ok. What those kids did to her is just another form of bullying, your daughter might not have physical bruises but mentally those words can hurt.

[LaraMN]

26. Maybe this is why she was so bent on signing up for wrestling.

:rofl:

[NewJeffCT]

28. I'm not sure my daughter even knows what Hell is

she's 8, but we never discuss religion at home, other than to say that we don't really celebrate Easter, or that he friend Sophie doesn't celebrate Christmas because her family is Jewish. Nobody has told her anything about her religion, though.

Sorry your daughter had to deal with that.

[Rambis]

29. Water off a ducks back

If she frets about it you will know then you can deal with the existential crisis at that time. I was called a all sorts of things by the catholics but it was them stealing the wine, shaggin like rabbits and smoking after CCD well before the rest of us.

[RedCloud]

36. Where's that "You believe in God!, You believe in God!" mocking kid when you need him?

[Arugula Latte]

30. I got told the same thing as a kid. I still don't believe in god.

It's a lesson to learn that the religious are often rude and intolerant and prone to pushing their beliefs, probably because many of them are insecure and have doubts about their own belief in the supernatural, if they were truly honest with themselves.

[raccoon]

73. And that kind always think they're superior to others who don't believe

exactly the way they do, and they think they're going to heaven, and others are going to hell.

And they don't get it why that is such a big turn-off! :wtf:

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. The people in Hell are the ones with the good albums, so it all works out.

:rofl:

Fundies - gotta hate 'em.

If there is a hell, and I don't believe there is, it waits for those who feel the need to proclaim who is going there.

[Fire Walk With Me]

32. You know the old saw about a person new to Heaven beign given the tour

There are the Hindus, there are the Muslims, there are the etc. etc.

What's that building with no windows?

That's the Christians, they think they're alone here.

[tigereye]

58. good one!

:rofl:

[undeterred]

35. That brings back fond childhood memories.

We were the only Protestant kids in a Catholic neighborhood. The boys behind us used to tell us we were going to hell and we'd say "No, YOU'RE going to hell." Then we'd have a fight with leaves that had berries smashed inside them so it would look like blood on the other person's coat. It looked like some kind of religious war, but it was all in fun.

Ah, those were the days.

[Cid_B]

37. You aren't doing your kid a favor...

... by talking to the teacher. Give her advice if you feel the urge but let kids be kids and learn how to deal with people themselves.

[Odin2005]

40. RIIIIIGHT, becase being bullied is a "normal part of childhood", eh?

:eyes:

[Cid_B]

42. I'll just ask...

1) Do you think it is appropriate for a parent to "intervene" with the teacher whenever their child hears something they are uncomfortable with?

2) What do you expect the teacher to do about it?

3) Does it do anything other than identify the child as a target one can obviously get quite a rise from?

[mzteris]

45. do you think it's appropriate

to allow bullying in schools?

Because that is what it is, plain and simple. BULLYING.

And yes, the teacher should be made aware of it.

[Cid_B]

47. If that is your definition of bullying then yes...

Actual bullying should be met with intervention as a last resort and this is nowhere close...

[mzteris]

52. telling a child they're going to hell isn't bullying???

Maybe it would meet your definition if they told her that because she was gay? or black? or Jewish?

But she's just a "non-believer" so it's okay?

BULLYING consists of hurtful words, not just fists, you know.


correct typos

[Cid_B]

53. I think the kid should be...

... at least be given the chance to try to deal with the situation before mommy comes rushing in to make her a victim in from of all her peers.

Seriously, the idea that a parent would even consider involving the school in this is mind boggling to me.

Why not just take the opportunity to tell the kid that some people believe things that she might not and it shouldn't bother her. Oh NO!

[mzteris]

54. a quiet conference

with the teacher is hardly making "her a victim in front of all her peers" !

Sorry, bullying needs to be stopped. Period!

[Cid_B]

55. Fine...

So what do you expect the teacher to do?

[tigereye]

60. teachers should have a talk with all the kids and tell them

harassing others for religious (or other) beliefs won't be tolerated. Talking to the adult in charge or to administrators is what any involved parent should do. :shrug:

[Cid_B]

61. Then he does it again...

Whatcha gonna do? Keep kids from talking about anything that they may disagree on? Kids are gonna talk about music, religion, politics, race, SEX and a million other things. Maybe you should submit an approved list of unacceptable topics and the accompanying punishment.

I weep for the future generations who won't have their mommies to watch out for them the rest of their lives or worse maybe they will.

[woo me with science]

70. Great posts on this thread.

Thanks.

The saddest part of this attitude is that kids get the message that they are so fragile and easily wounded and helpless that they need adult intervention to survive a single nasty exchange on the playground.

Yes, crack down on real bullying.

No, don't define bullying downward so that you are monitoring every conversation on the playground and calling meetings as soon as it is not all smiles and puppies and rainbows.

Your patience here is admirable. I have to go now. My kids and their friends are having an independent conversation, and someone might say something insensitive.

[mzteris]

63. be vigilant to this type

of bullying language. To instruct her charges - again - against bullying behaviour and language, to be respectful of others.

You know, what teachers are SUPPOSED to do in cases where there is bullying behaviours in their classroom.

[woo me with science]

66. Way overkill.

Read below. The kid feels perfectly capable of handling this.

And I agree with the other poster. Kids will have contentious conversations about religion, politics, etc. It is part of trying on their wings and growing up. Unless there is a sign of a serious problem (e.g., kid coming home *repeatedly* upset), Mommy and Daddy should keep out of it.

[mzteris]

67. This kid does.

So did mine.

But many do not.

Should the victims of bullies suffer in silence?

This is not a "conversation about religion" this is abusive and threatening language.

[woo me with science]

68. Where do you get bullying here?

One mean comment in a conversation does not automatically equal "bullying." I thought I was quite clear about when adults should intervene. And no, I don't see "threatening language" here. What was the threat? A devil's pitchfork?

Do you send the parents in to moderate every single time a kid says something mean or snarky to another kid? Does someone intervene every time YOU say something insensitive to someone at DU? Like suggesting that I want bullied kids to suffer in silence?

You were arguing a minute ago that THIS KID needed intervention. My point was that based on what we heard here, there was no reason to leap to adult intervention. And it turns out I was right.

I feel sorry for kids everywhere if one nasty comment on the playground is the new bar for adult intervention.

[mzteris]

69. It's clearly bullying

The fact that you don't get that doesn't really matter. If the person BEING bullied feels bullied, then they are being bullied.

And I know children - lots of children - and have been around children - who have had this said to them - or been witness to this being said - and they said they felt: hurt and intimidated and ganged-up on and scared, frightened, confused, etc. . . .


No - I don't "send in the parents to moderate every single instance" - BUT - if a child is asking for help then by all means you give it to them. This child decided she could handle it herself. GOOD FOR HER!! Hooray. I'd expect nothing less from LaraMN's child - but if the situation continues I'd also expect her to ask her mom for help.

Does someone intervene everytime I say something insensitive? :rofl: - have you seen how many posts I've had pulled? lol

It certainly sounded like you want them to suffer in silence. Oh no wait - it sounds more like YOU think it's not bullying, so it's not anything to be concerned about.

I never said "THIS KID NEEDS intervention". She was asking for comments and I offered mine.

[tigereye]

59. no, that's bullying

[Odin2005]

38. Your daughter should respond that Hell is where all the cool people are!

:evilgrin:

[Riftaxe]

39. Hell or heaven doesn't matter

as long as you have fun getting there :)

*cough* well maybe advice for when your daughter hits 43...

[av8rdave]

41. I wasn't raised with religion, but I did take the time some years ago to read the Bible

Cover to cover. What struck me most was how un-Christian most Christians I have encountered behave.

Telling anyone they are going to hell is the mark of someone who may have been preached to a lot, but never actually read their own playbook.

[Arugula Latte]

71. Well, truth be told, the Bible is one pretty fucked up book.

I mean, Yahweh is one ginormous a-hole. I don't know how anyone can follow that silly mythology.

[zanana1]

43. That's child abuse.

I went to a Catholic school (with nuns) and was reminded of Hell every day. What a horrible thing to say to a child. The nightmares started when I was six.

[meow2u3]

44. Tell her to tell her classmates that their God didn't die and leave them in charge

That's what my mom always told my sister, and I'm a moderate Catholic. Have your kid ask her classmates, "Who died and left you guys in charge"? You and your child may not believe in God, but I do, and my God taught me that I'm not the judge of who goes to Hell. Those kids are being taught disrespect

Truly religious people respect freedom of religion--and mutual respect counts as part of religious freedom. Forced conversions and people telling others that they're going to hell for not sharing the same beliefs should be a thing of the past, but sadly, they're alive and well even in the 21st century. Just look at the fundies on both sides of this planet, Jewish, Christian, secular, and Islamic alike, and you'll see the consequences of such a mentality: violent extremism, fanaticism, and bigotry on the right, all in the name of God, which serves no purpose but to turn people against religion altogether. Religious bigotry is provoking secular bigotry and vice versa. I understand why you think the way you do, even though I disagree with you.

Here's the thing that will put an end to the ideological religious wars: mutual respect. In other words, a return to practicing the principles of the 1st Amendment.

[CreekDog]

50. that sucks

Ironic that the Fundamentalists are making this country a crueler place. :wtf:

[WinkyDink]

"Clearly, the situation warrants a chat with her teacher." No; no, it doesn't.

[WinkyDink]

51. "Clearly, the situation warrants a chat with her teacher." No; no, it doesn't.

[LaraMN]

56. An update.

My daughter doesn't want me to talk her teacher, so I'm not going to for now- I'll take my cues from her. She told me she's decided she'll just "tell them they're wrong and they need to read more books."

She seems to feel like she can handle the other kids, which is good. I think it's my mother-in-law who really got to her; kids want to trust adults, especially those who are close family.

Thanks for your feedback. I'm a life-long non-religious person, and I never got any crap about it at her age, so this really irked me.

[Cid_B]

62. Good for your daughter...

Problem solved.

[riderinthestorm]

64. Thats all you can do. Take the lead from your kids.

Mine were in the same boat. I know they were told they were going to hell by their classmates but they handled it themselves and wouldn't really disclose how it resolved itself. I expect they gave their classmates one of my favorite responses such as "fuck off, discussing religion is bad form in public, mind your manners".

But honestly, since we were all pariahs anyway in our fundie community, it didn't make a whit of difference how we shaded it.

The truth is, the other kids are the brats, the rude ones. Good luck.

[InvisibleTouch]

65. I don't remember an issue of religion ever coming up when I was 9.

My family was Catholic, though I would never describe myself as such, and the rest of the clan wasn't all that strict either. Around that age I did the "holy communion" thing that involved taking preparatory classes and the like. It was no big deal to me one way or another, not something I was caught up in nor something I was rebelling against. (The rebellion came much later.) Outside of those classes, I don't remember EVER having a conversation on religious themes with a fellow classmate, or even with my parents. It was just a motion that we went through. I can't imagine today's classroom situations where kids feel free to proselytize and condemn each other.

In any case, your daughter might tell her busybody classmates, "I'll live it up in Hell because *you* won't be there to spoil it for me." ;)

[Xipe Totec]

72. Something to cheer you (and your daughter up)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV5w262XvCU

PS: If you don't believe in God, then you don't believe in Hell either, so if they think she's going to hell, then, whatevah.

:hi: