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Ready for a trip down the rabbit hole of the hyperreal?

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Tigermoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-03 01:12 AM
Original message
Ready for a trip down the rabbit hole of the hyperreal?
Edited on Tue Jul-08-03 01:13 AM by Tigermoose
Having studied postmodernism in literary theory, I immediately recognized its implications in the financial markets, but since I'm no economist, I haven't been able to say anything more than general postmodern hyperreal theory ala Baudrillard. But, I found a pretty darn awesome paper on hyperreal economics. Deep stuff here, and definitely at an academic level, but very cool stuff. Skip to section 4 after the intro. if you want to get to the hyperreal stuff.

What is sort of exciting for me is that money and finance "signs" seem to operating in the same manner as language in many ways, as being once believed to be signs for actual real things, but eventually words and language become valued in and for themselves only as signs, and become nothing more than deferred meanings in constant tracing (or exchange).

Very very cool stuff. Since the formatting is a bit off, I just copied it all and put it in Word for easier reading.

The Hyperreal Finance

<snip>
IV. The Hyperreal Economy

Hyperreality

This would be the successive phases of the image: --it is the reflection of a basic
reality --it masks and perverts a basic reality --it masks the absence of a basic reality
--it bears no relation to any reality whatever: it is its own pure simulacrum. In the
first case, the image is a good appearance--the representation is of the order of
sacrament. In the second, it is an evil appearance--of the order of malefice. In the
third, it plays at being an appearance--it is of the order of sorcery. In the fourth, it
is no longer in the order of appearance at all, but of simulation. page 11]

With regard to money, the first stage is its familiar function as the generalized symbol (or
image) of wealth. The second stage is the basis for the concern that Baudrillard shares with Marx
that "political economy is this immense transmutation of all values (labor, knowledge, social
relations, culture, nature) into economic exchange value." The third
stage is exchange for the sake of exchange, but justified by the eventual exchange for the sake of
consumption. In the fourth stage, the justification is dropped. In stages one, two, and three, the
alibi for the exchange value of money is its use value, i.e., the money is still a symbol for the use
value of the things it can purchase. In the fourth, the hyperreal, stage, the alibi for money is purely
its sign value.
These stages might be applied more specifically to financial assets. For stock prices, for
example, stage one is a stock price that accurately indicates some intrinsic value of the corporation;
stage two, a stock price that because of distortions and noise, is an imperfect indicator of some
intrinsic value of the corporation; stage three, a stock price that is the only value one knows for the
corporation, as there is no such thing as intrinsic value; and stage four, a stock price that is in a
sense a "pure" value, as the corporation to which it is attached is irrelevant. (This last, hyperreal,
stage in reminiscent of technical analysis where it is not necessary to know anything about a
corporation in order to interpret the patterns of its stock price and to forecast the future.)
Why use the term "hyperreality" to describe this fourth stage?--because there is no
underlying real value. According to Baudrillard:

"Simulation is no longer that of a territory, a referential being or a substance. It is
the generation by models of a real without origin or reality: a hyperreal."

<snip>
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-03 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Really interesting stuff!
Thank you for posting this, Tigermoose! I've heard about postmodern theory, but didn't know much about it till I read this. I'm really interested in learning more. I was a Poli Sci grad student (MA program) for a while. After a while I started seeing exactly what this article talks about in terms of the hyperreal. Boy, it would've been great if I'd been able to read some post-modern theorists so I could have better articulated my intense frustration with their department and its curriculum. With that in mind, I would LOVE to read some more about this subject. Is there a book or author that you could point me to?

Thanks again for posting!
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Tigermoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-03 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Some postmodern theorists...
Jean Baudrillard --> the "hyperreal" and other goodness.

Jean-Francois Lyotard --> dismantling of grand narratives, plurality.

Fredric Jameson --> Postmodernism and Consumer Society. Postmodern marxist.

Deleuze and Guattari --> Rhizome theory


For me, postmodernism best describes the current American Society, but I don't necessarily like it. I consider myself a Christian Romantic postmodern. This stuff is later 20th century theory. Most theory you see tossed around on these boards is dated -- early 20th century and earlier, such as Marx and Freud. These guys above build or dismantle these earlier ideas and do a pretty good job of describing our current situation. I need to study Postmodernism even more, so I'll stop blabbering.

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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-03 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks!
I hope to be able to chat with you again (more intelligently - on my part) soon!

:)
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Piltdown13 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-15-03 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. If you're interested in the idea of "hyperreality",
you might want to check out Umberto Eco's "Travels in Hyperreality," which is the main essay in an anthology of the same name. Not having read the article referenced in the lead post, I can't say for certain if it's the same phenomenon, although the description above of something hyperreal as being "its own pure simulacrum" sounds pretty close to what Eco was talking about; IIRC the focus of Eco's essay was aesthetics.

Just FYI :-).
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