Bank fees...

[rumpel]

At this point I am so upset with banks, I would like to stash cash under my pillow.

So, for the time being, I go to the consumer affairs website and read some posts - these banks are crooks and most of it is legal, folks! The legislature and agencies have been protecting these companies' interest for far too long.

Something very similar happened to me to this complaint:

Kristine of Richardson TX (04/23/08)
On 4.23.08 I deposited more than $22k into my business checking account. This deposit consisted of six separate checks ranging from $420 to more than $10k. When I received my receipt it said that all the funds, except $100.03 were on hold. Not only were the funds on hold, but it said they were only hold because I deposited more than $5k into my account in one day. Plus, they were going to release the funds in stages over a two week period of time.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/washington_mutual_bank.htm

In my case, however it was a check from the State Disbursement Unit (child support enforcement) there should not have been a hold! I had to fight about whether it is a government check with them, it is a State agency for crying out loud! The State agency has to disburse the funds within 2 days by law, and the banks hold it for 10-14 days? Where is the logic on this. So I checked:

The regulation falls under the Expedited Funds Availability Act (1987) and it states this:
SEC. 603. EXPEDITED FUNDS AVAILABILITY SCHEDULES.

(a) NEXT BUSINESS DAY AVAILABILITY FOR CERTAIN DEPOSITS.--
(1) CASH DEPOSITS; WIRE TRANSFERS.--Except as provided in subsection (e) and in section 604, in any case in which--
(A) any cash is deposited in an account at a receiving depository institution staffed by individuals employed by such institution, or
(B) funds are received by a depository institution by wire transfer for deposit in an account at such institution,
such cash or funds shall be available for withdrawal not later than the business day after the business day on which such cash is deposited or such funds are received for deposit.
{{4-28-00 p.7426}}
(2) GOVERNMENT CHECKS; CERTAIN OTHER CHECKS.--Funds deposited in an account at a depository institution by check shall be available for withdrawal not later than the business day after the business day on which such funds are deposited in the case of--
(A) a check which--
(i) is drawn on the Treasury of the United States; and
(ii) is endorsed only by the person to whom it was issued;
(B) a check which--
(i) is drawn by a State;
(ii) is deposited in a receiving depository institution which is located in such State and is staffed by individuals employed by such institution;
(iii) is deposited with a special deposit slip which indicates it is a check drawn by a State; and
(iv) is endorsed only by the person to whom it was issued;
(C) a check which--
(i) is drawn by a unit of general local government;
(ii) is deposited in a receiving depository institution which is located in the same State as such unit of general local government and is staffed by individuals employed by such institution;
(iii) is deposited with a special deposit slip which indicates it is a check drawn by a unit of general local government; and
(iv) is endorsed only by the person to whom it was issued;

etc. etc. etc......
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/6500-3240.html

Unlike what the complainant was told by customer service of the bank it is NOT new: 1987. You read the regulation further and you will find a deposit over 5k in a day will be held. In general, over the years, I have yet to find a teller or customer service clerk on the phone, who is sufficiently trained and knows the banking laws. Many a times was I given absolutely wrong statements which resulted in unnecessary trips and run around - a lot of waste of my time. Now I check the laws in whatever I confront, and yet, what is one to do over a $33 unjustified fee or other "inconveniences"?

By floating the funds, these banks make a lot of money. As I understand it, one physical dollar in a bank can be leveraged 10 to 20 times the amount or even more.

My deposit slip also said the same thing: they will refund any OD or returned fees merely because of the hold they placed,upon request
Now, an online utility payment created a non-negative negative of a couple of dollars, upon which I was charged a fee. To make a long story short - they will not reverse the fees on the day it was charged - they will not do it over the phone, they reverse the fee on the day you go to the branch - in other words, it is set up to pile on even when the funds are already physically in their bank, due to the new laws since 9/11 for bank to bank transactions.

Now, I discover, another bank, a seldom used account of my mothers has been piling up daily negative balance fees. My mother is bedridden right now for over a year. When we got the first notice I went online and checked the amount and added another $5 and went to the branch to make a deposit into her account. Today, I received another notice and as I checked, it looks like they either did not credit the deposit the same day and/or added another $8 daily OD fee, which made her overdrawn for $3 after the deposit - the teller never even mentioned it. Now at close to $200 negative. I will have to go with a Power of Attorney to the branch to close the account.

In any event, consumers have to fight back on this abuse. The more I read the complaints the more I get pissed.

Anyway - the banks are now aching and are going to try everything to boost their bottom line. Beware. I also got notice from "the not nickel and dime-ing bank", that any savings account that has less than $300 will be assessed a fee from June. (When I opened the account, the catch was that it was touted as "free")
Any normal business contract never has a clause that a party can change the terms whenever and however he pleases.

But consumer affairs mentioned this documentary clip and I thought I will pass it on. A sweet revenge.

Director Takes Aim at Banks in New Film, 'Overdrawn!'
Debit card overdraft charges 'just didn't seem right'

By Mark Huffman
ConsumerAffairs.com

March 14, 2008
Karney Hatch was taking care of his grandparents in Moscow, Idaho a few years ago when he made an unpleasant discovery. While running a series of quick errands, picking up pharmaceuticals, household items and groceries for his grandmother and grandfather, he spent more money than he had in his account.

Since he was using his debit card and not writing checks, he was able to make the purchases because of the bank's automatic overdraft protection. But when Hatch opened his next bank statement, he realized the bank really wasn't doing him much of a favor.

"I had four purchases for a total of about $60," he told ConsumerAffairs.com. "But the bank assessed a $35 overdraft fee for each charge, costing me a total of $140. That just didn't seem right."

So Hatch gathered up a few friends and some video equipment and produced a documentary, "Overdrawn," which was recently completed. The-74 minute movie provides a close-up look at how the banking industry harvests billions of dollars from consumers in the form of overdraft and other fees.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/03/overdrawn.html

segment at:
http://current.com/items/88849140_how_to_beat_the_bank

I am seriously considering Nader's suggestion.

IMHO the new bill should go much further. Like the old regulations, it exempts the banks to apply the new rules when the accounts have a history or incidents of OD's. The way they apply deposits and payments, they can and will create an OD situation as they please. Yup, blame it on the software. Now who creates the software?....

[Systematic Chaos]

1. The only thing more fun than a bank is a payday loan company.

I know of this first hand, and I could share some stories that would make your hair stand on end, but I don't want to hijack your thread and frankly I don't know where to begin.

So instead I'll just give you your first much-deserved K&R.

:kick:

[rumpel]

7. I hear ya

they are all the same USURY

[LiberalEsto]

2. K&R

Excellent post

My daughters have had to pay all sorts of costly overdraft charges over the banks' arcane hold regulations.

I hate the banking industry. :grr:

[rumpel]

8. Thank you

I think the hardest hit are the elderly and college students. The elderly most often do not keep on top of these things and students are new to handling money.
And yet, hard working people, who are careful, and who have to watch every dollar they spend, get hit with these insane fees.

Of course the upper 10% would say..."What fees?"

[NMDemDist2]

3. the one that gets me is when the bank at the end of the day posts the

drafts FIRST and then the deposits.

I have fired two banks over that little scam. and yes, I'll name names, Chase and Wells Fargo.

I know my paycheck gets deposited Friday, so I pay bills Friday but they take out the bills before they post the paycheck.

:mad:

[Warpy]

6. I know that policy all too well

and have told creditors that if they didn't like being paid the following week, they should contact the bank and request that they reverse their accounting procedure.

Once I got my house, I didn't care what my credit rating was, and that made a big difference. I've never bounced a check because of the penalty for that. Creditors who have to wait three days suffer less inconvenience than a mere banking customer does.

Now we don't even get to live on float while checks are physically transferred from bank to bank through the Fed. Once a check is posted, that check is electronically debited from your account no matter how long it takes to arrive at your bank in its physical form. Yet when it comes to deposits, banks still pretend float exists.

The industry is overdue for re regulation. The fucking GOP has certainly taught us why they were heavily regulated in the first place.

[rumpel]

10. that is clever, Warpy

making the creditors wait.

I agree. By now, I'd say there should be a moratorium on any GOP member to run a regulatory agency.

[rumpel]

9. that is the software

Yeah, right. When there is nothing else they blame it on bank policy.

[grasswire]

15. yep Wells Fargo

Something else is horrible, too. You can look at your online bank statement with transactions balances one day, and the next day it will all be shuffled up with different dates on the various debits and credits. It's nearly impossible to figure out what they have done and when. I assume that's deliberate.

[prairierose]

4. I stopped doing business with banks...

a few years ago. I joined my local credit union and I will never go back to a bank. I think of banks as predatory lenders too. They are just a different type of predator from the payday loan goons. Did you know that most payday loan places are owned by big banks? Yes, that is true. It may be where they will be trying to make back the trillions they have blown in their recent greed fest gone wrong. But you can be certain that every bank is going to be raising as many fees as possible to try to make the bottom line look better after what has happened. It is not over yet. They will be looking for every way they can to make enough to keep going. It is way past time that the banks, merchant banks and wall street were re-regulated. It is the only way that we ever have a hope of being solvent again. We have to force them to behave like adults and not the rapists, pirates and thieves they really are.

[mapatriot]

5. Absolutely....

..agree. Credit unions are owned by their members. As a former banker (20 years at senior level) I can tell you catagorically that banks make most of their money these days on FEES. They hope you will screw up so they can charge you more fees. That's what these "totally free checking" schemes are all about. They WANT you to overdraw the account so they can whack you with a $20+ fee. Credit Unions are the last bastion of the old mutual savings banking model. And it was that model that literally financed the growth of the middle-class in this nation. By the way, I do not (nor does any member of my family) work for a credit union or sit on any CU boards. Avoid banks at any cost and do business with your local credit union. You'll be promoting the growth of your community, supporting local employment, and saving more money for yourself!

[rumpel]

11. Thanks, I will look into that

Yes, what happened to the good ol' neighborhood bank? I remember the good old Banks, even not so long ago. A face to face interview for a mortgage or loan, decisions in the hands of a "true" loan officer.

The financial institutions are a disgrace...

[juno jones]

12. I have no idea where you are banking

But I have had good luck with credit unions. I have, in the past deposited out-of-state checks for a legal settlement, a some quite decent sums, and was it credited instantly to the account with no hold. Generally, the minimum deposit to keep the account active is $5- $25.


Good luck with the bank stuff. I began to drop banks when they started charging me $5-$10 to cash paychecks written on their bank by their business customers (my bosses). BOA even forces you to stand in a separate 'non-customer' line and you get served only every third or fifth opening...once again to cash checks written by their customers, who are also paying outrageous charges for the bank's supposed services.

If you have a local CU, I would highly recommend looking into it. My current CU will only invest its money into the local area.

[rumpel]

13. I will seriously look into CU's, I really had it.

We have switched so many times over the years, and considering the hostile takeovers and mergers and acquisitions, I think I banked with all of them - only to have found the lesser of evils.
Oh boy, and every time a larger bank took over a good local bank, errors galore!

I hope there comes a day, when honest true service is the competitive edge of any business - and this scheming and underhanded approach of a business model is placed in it's rightful place in society.

Just like the fake paranoia of "Voter Fraud" into which legislators were duped into, the fake "Criminal Consumer" argument sold by these institutions created this situation.

A lot needs to be done, and it will take many years, not a one savior politician. It has to come from the bottom up, from We The People.

[skoalyman]

14. add key bank to the list. I took them my federal tax check to cash so

I could pay them for an overdraft fee the teller said were sorry we can't cash the check.So I tolder well. I'll be finding a new bank my credits in the shiter anyway f'em.

[BankFodder]

16. British reaction to excessive bank charges

In Britain, we always think of Americans as not having this kind of problem with banks etc and as being very consumer oriented no-nonsense place. I'm surprised to see all of this grief with banks and bank charges going on.

Over the past 2 years we've had what has been described as a consumer revolution amongst bank customers. British banks have been forced to repay about $1.5bn so far and if a test case which is going through the courts at the moment is won in our favour, the banks will be liable for $50bn or so.

You can see the story on a British website - Consumer Action Group. I don't know if I am allowed to give the link here.

Through this website and others, Brits all over the place are using the small claims process to take banks, phone companies, utilities companies, insurance companies - and anything else to court.

[leftofthedial]

17. do you mean to tell me that unregulated capitalism is theft?

Gasp!