Walmart is up 16% for the year. What's your proposal?

[lelgt60]

In the worst year for the market since 1931, we have one of the most despised companies here on DU up 16%. Everybody knows why. For better or worse, people believe they will get cheaper prices for the things they NEED at Walmart. It's not a luxury store. The rich, by and large, don't shop there.

I don't remember all the complaints about Walmart. The ones that stick in my mind are that they:

1) Indiscriminately buy foreign (mostly Chinese) made goods, without verifying they are safe (even after the problems were known).
2) Based on 1), they promote poor working condition for foreign workers, and even child labor.
2) Pay less than living wages and actively try and prevent employee organization.
3) The drive out smaller community based business that are, in the long run, better for everyone.

Even if the above all all verifiable true, and even if they are the worst offenders as compared to other, less hated businesses, what steps could we take that would help these things WITHOUT causing other unintended consequences (raise real prices, including hidden environmental/social costs, or raise unemployment)?

Or, do you by are large think these "accusations" are unfair?

[JuniperLea]

1. All those things are true and they matter...

Unfortunately, more and more people are finding it increasingly difficult to feed and clothe their families. You gotta do what you gotta do, and standing firm on principles doesn't help the family budget.

[Lorien]

7. Buying something twice doesn't help the family budget either

and that's what happens when you buy cheap crap from Wal-Mart; you buy it again six months or a year later. It's kind of like one of those rent to own places that also preys on the poor; they spend a whole lot more over time for an inferior product.

What we have do do is cut all government subsidies for companies who outsource, force Wal-Mart to pay empolyee benefits and make sure their products pass safety standards. If we want to subside something, let's subsidize companies who make superior products here in America! I bought a more expensive Dyson (made in England) when all other vacuum cleaners broke after a year of sucking up pet hair, I bought a Sennheiser head set (Germany) after every Chinese model I purchased broke after six to eight months. Why aren't WE making the great products anymore? I think that's what we need to ask.

[JuniperLea]

8. That makes no difference to those with limited money and no time to save

I understand the quick cheap crap deal, and I always try to buy for quality. But I don't have three kids, nor do I work for minimum wage. That is the problem. There are immediate needs and no time to save up for quality.

We do need to get back to production. Clearly this service based economy was a very, very bad idea.

[Lorien]

11. I'm unemployed and have almost no resources left

I'll do without before buying crap again. It's just way, way too expensive in the long run. But then most Americans can't imagine anything beyond next week!

[CoffeeCat]

18. Excellent, excellent point...

People who are just getting by--who need a toaster or a coffee maker--can only afford to purchase the low-end ones at Walmart for $15. The
problem is...those small appliances will last six months. So, these people return to Walmart again, to fork over another $15, and so on and
so forth.

This is a form of enslavement and abuse. Walmart knows damn well that they are selling crap that is "made to break." They are exploiting
poor people.

I have noticed this with many items purchase at Walmart. It's especially revolting when it comes to clothing. Most Walmart clothing looks
terrible after several times in the washing machine. The clothes fade, become misshaped and look terrible. Sweaters shrink up and are completely
unwearable.

This keeps consumers cycling into Walmart more frequently--because they're constantly replacing what has broken, worn out or is just plain unusable
after six months.

"Made to break"....a form of enslavement.

[.... callchet ....]

26. An old saying

You never have time to do it right but you can always have time do it again.

[slackmaster]

2. It might be a good time to sell some WM stock and put the money into something else

What that might be, I cannot say. But a portfolio rebalancing move may be in order.

[Citizen Number 9]

6. What a great idea!

All you DU members holding WalMart stock should consider selling it right now!

[Common Sense Party]

49. I highly doubt any DUers hold individual shares of WM stock.

However, most of us have WM in our large-cap mutual funds in our retirement plans (if we have such). It's pretty hard to divest of one stock when it's one of dozens the fund has holdings in.

[Statistical]

51. I own WMT.

Sorry but they are the best discount retailer.

If I am going to have to fund my own retirement (no pension, SS is questionable) then I am going to eat cat food if I stick with "nice companies". WMT is a well run company. I wish they would be less anti-labor in the future and likely they will have too.

Your point is correct. If you own ANY large cap mutual fund it has WMT. Period. There are only a few large caps, and there are even fewer large cap retail plays. Among those even fewer are worth owning. Any fund manager who underperforms his/her peers by not taking the "easy money" with WMT will be looking for a new job.

[Common Sense Party]

52. I stand corrected.

I think WMT is a well-run enterprise as well. My wife spends enough money there; they ought to be profitable.

I just don't do individual stocks.

[Statistical]

54. I didn't own stocks for almost 30 years.....

then one day I realized the "smart guys" don't beat the market consistently. They just take a cut off the top for their "effort". That 1%-2% they take off the tops adds up over time. Plus many love to churn stocks resulting in some large cap gain. The idea of paying taxes on investments in 2008 because of cap gains when mutual funds lost 30%-50% is crazy.

I moved my money around:
about half in index fund that tracks the S&P
about quarter in individual stocks (including shorts)
about quarter in fixed income (mix of T-Bill and low risk corp bonds (MO, GE, WMT)

KISS = Keep It simple Stupid.

Nothing fancy however I substantially reduced my expenses. I never put more than 10% into a individual stocks and ind stocks are only 1/4 of my money so even if a single stock goes to $0.00 it will only hurt me 2.5% of my total portfolio.

One thing I have changed recently is to write covered calls on my long term companies to increase income and I stopped shorting and started using puts to protect against margin calls.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

3. As a former Walmart grunt, I'd say those accusations are pretty fair.

But if you're thinking of a boycott or the like, I think it would be unwise at the time. As I have pointed out in the past, the workers are the ones who would suffer first in any decrease in Walmart's revenue via layoffs. And any attempts to organize now would be met with firings (since even Walmart jobs are up in demand thanks to rising unemployment.

However, I have noticed that Walmart (at least in the Northeast) is trying to remake itself into a middle-class-friendly venue. They've adopted more muted earth-tone colors for their storefronts and have abandoned the abominable smiley face. Clearly, they're trying to run from their old image as a bargain-basement peddler of inferior goods.

What could be done is attack one of these objections head-on and tie it into their image remake. The first one would be the most logical under this construct and could be promoted as making Walmart a good "global citizen." The potential backlash is (of course) increased cost and then either increased prices or workers taking the hit, but it would take longer for the backlash to reach its full potential and might even be offset by economic recovery by the time Walmart decides it needs to recoup its losses.

[DBoon]

4. economists call this an "inferior good"

like potatoes, where sales go up during bad times because people can't afford the more desirable alternative

[NightWatcher]

5. Aim Low. (McD's is also doing quite nice)

My cousin opened up a pizza buffet restaurant in a little redneck suburb in south georgia 200 yards away from the town's sole wallyworld.

Aim low and you will be successful

[davefromqueens]

9. Walmart -- HIGHER PRICES

This is a Public Relations battle. Walmart actually means HIGHER PRICES for shoppers and consumers. First, the prices for the quality are actually higher. Second, by driving out competition and becoming a local monopoly, prices are higher.

Where Walmart has been successful has been in its marketing and public relations. The stores are filthy, the quality of worker quite poor, management horrible, the quality of the product also terrible. And it's a horrible environment to work and to shop.

But they MARKET themselves as LOW PRICES and they repeat it over and over again. And people believe them. We must associate the phrase HIGHER PRICES with Walmart.


Marketing is not about what is but about what is perceived. If I serve dog food and you think it's filet mignon, I can get you to eat it for 30 bucks if marketed properly.

[Citizen Number 9]

12. Dave, your Jedi mind tricks don't work on everyone.

Dog food is not filet and WalMart does a very good job at what it does, which is low price retailing.

I shop at WM and I find the stores to be, on the whole, significantly cleaner than other discount retailers. I don't go there unless I think I will save $10 or $15 on a trip for even a few items. The products are the same found at the other stores in my area. Their stock levels are very consistent meaning I rarely go there only to find something out of stock which is something that happens regularly at other stores.

The single best thing about them however, is that they employ workers who are otherwise unemployable in my community. A couple weeks ago I went in to find a worker who had been horrible at the local hardware store. He appeared to be happy and doing a fine job at WM. Management must be doing something right there to retain workers. For that matter, the fact that WalMart continues to be the largest retailer in the world says something about your assertions that everything about them is bad.

[sendero]

14. As for general merchandise.

... Wal Mart is pretty good on prices. As for GROCERIES, they KILL the competition around here (Dallas) by 30%. It's not even a contest, there is a Target 2 miles away that charges way more for every item.

Do I like Wal Mart? No. Do they slaughter the competition on grocery store items, yes they do and I shop there to save 30 or 40 bucks every week.

[MamaDem]

10. I still despise them and refuse to shop there...

I cannot imagine how hardpressed things will have to get to have me grace their store. My husband worked for a company that did business with them (employee benefit management) and the way they treated their "associates" did it for us. That was about 10 years ago and I think in the last 10 years I can count on one hand (3 fingers!) how many times we've been back - always for rx late at night when no one else was open. Seeing their inner-workings is much worse than what you see in the store. And I know all the stories - about someone who works there and love it for all they have done...blah, blah, blah. What my husband saw (and it was an extremely small window) was enough to turn me off for life. <end rant>

[Citizen Number 9]

13. Really, that's the height of hypocrisy

to trash mouth WalMart and then go and use them for your own needs "when no one else is open". Kudos for admitting it, however. Everyone has their price.

[girl gone mad]

15. Awfully defensive over WalMart..

aren't we?

[Citizen Number 9]

17. I wouldn't say so, no.

Not even in the same class as the constant venom and mostly baseless accusations flung by the folks who love to get on the group hate wagon.

Now that there are fewer socially acceptable things to hate as a group. :)

[barb162]

23. I rarely go there, but then again I have the luxury of many national

chains and also local stores within close proximity.

[girl gone mad]

16. Sales are up for now,

but long term, they are facing as much trouble as every other retailer.

China's population is headed back to a rural farming existence. Demand for everything is rapidly deteriorating. WalMart can't single-handedly support these various factories, so they will be shutting down en masse. Then how does WalMart restock the shelves? Where do they get the next batch of cheap plastic junk from?

As the recession grinds on, low prices won't be enough to lure shoppers. They will cut back on all purchases, even food and prescriptions. WalMart has overbuilt and focused too heavily on expansion into hard-hit exurban locales. Their stores are unappealing and far too large, not a place shoppers will want to spend much time in when the recession starts to really hurt. They currently rely on the welfare system to subsidize their employees low wages. They have already forced most suppliers to accept razor thin margins. In other words, they have no room to maneuver.

[Statistical]

21. Amazing piece of fiction

Rather than argue lets wait and see:

Walmart stock price today is $56 per share.
Lets check on it at the end of 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.

The only (financial not social) reason NOT to own Walmart stock is that growth have to slow.
Walmart is a huge company and it is much harder to grow 15% on $100 Billion then it is to grow 15% on $100 Million.

The idea that Walmart is going to crash and burn has been passed around for decades now. Still waiting.

Actually the one thing that could "hurt" (as in lower revenue, not failure) Walmart would be the economy recovers AND real wages increase.

As consumers have more $$$ in the pocket they tend to be less price sensitive and shop other places despite Walmart having lower prices.

[Citizen Number 9]

28. So, are you shorting WMT?

I love Internet stock tips. :P

[girl gone mad]

34. You didn't address a single one of my arguments.

You merely put words in my mouth.

Wal-Mart is certainly not immune to the current economic crisis. It's simply delusional to believe that they won't be negatively impacted.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=amS7u7AYKh84">Wal-Mart’s Bleak December May Herald More Pain in ‘09

Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Macy’s Inc. and Gap Inc. slashed earnings forecasts after the worst holiday- shopping season in 40 years, and the retail landscape may not improve heading into 2009.

Wal-Mart, the world’s biggest retailer, today said fourth- quarter earnings will be at most 94 cents a share, down from a November projection of as much as $1.07. Sales at stores open at least a year rose 1.7 percent last month, missing the 2.7 percent average of analysts’ estimates compiled by Retail Metrics Inc.

To attract customers amid rising unemployment and tightening credit, some U.S. retailers cut prices in December by as much as 70 percent. That threatens to erode profit margins in the fourth quarter, the most important of the year. The discounting may continue this year as the stores try to clear inventory.

“Consumers have become so accustomed to markdowns that nobody wants to pay full retail anymore,” said Craig Johnson, president of retail-consulting firm Customer Growth Partners LLC in New Canaan, Connecticut. “There’s going to be profit pressure in the first quarter.”

U.S. December same-store sales dropped 1.7 percent, the International Council of Shopping Centers reported. The New York-based trade group said sales declined 2.2 percent in the last two months of the year, the biggest such drop since it started tracking the data in 1969.

[Citizen Number 9]

35. You don't have arguments.

I've seen enough of your posts to know that all they contain is baseless talk.

Here, I'll show you. Normally, this would be boring, but it should take a minimum amount of words and effort;

"long term, they are facing as much trouble as every other retailer"
Not really. WM appears to be in the catbird's seat. Moreover, other retailers have begun to fail and WalMart is not in trouble.

"WalMart can't single-handedly support these various factories"
They never did and that wasn't their goal in the first place.

"they will be shutting down en masse"
China will experience a slowdown, but their economy won't stop.

"how does WalMart restock the shelves"
I guess with the factories that haven't gone out of business

"Where do they get the next batch of cheap plastic junk from"
Has a ring to it, but that doesn't properly characterize the products at WalMart

"low prices won't be enough to lure shoppers"
So, they will begin to do their shopping at places that provide luxury service or high end products? Give me a break. That and one-stop shopping will be the ONLY things that matter to customers.

"They will cut back on all purchases, even food and prescriptions"
Food and medicine are pretty inelastic. Again, WalMart is well situated to capture these consumers' basic purchases.

"WalMart has overbuilt"
I think WalMart is pretty strong on watching same-store sales.

"Their stores are unappealing and far too large,"
That must be what is filling up the parking lots right now.

"not a place shoppers will want to spend much time in when the recession starts to really hurt."
Right, they will be trying to spend some time looking in the windows of Gucci and Armani where their basic purchases will really go far.

"They currently rely on the welfare system to subsidize their employees low wages"
If this is true, it would undermine your argument that WalMart will do worse.

"They have already forced most suppliers to accept razor thin margins"
Again, this is a component of what allows them to offer the lowest prices.

"they have no room to maneuver."
When you are on top, you have more room than anyone else.


See? Very little substance to nearly everything you post.

[.... callchet ....]

39. WalMart is at risk ?

Walmart has around 5,000 stores in the USA. They exist on the edge of poverty. They have all of one group of consumers. They do not have a

diversified customer base. Their largest customer base is the most at risk segment of the USA population. They are balanced on a precarious precipice.

They will be the last to go ? They claim to have a slim profit margin ? Food and medicine is not inelastic at the bottem end of the customer

base. So when customers buy cheaper food. Dry rice and beans as oposed to frozen and canned goods WalMart will take a big hit. When people quit

buying prescriptions they will take another big hit. The trouble is most models look at risk factors, but ignore and deny the possibilty of worst

case scenario. Just like the banks and credit card companies charging a higher rate for at risk borrowers. They ignore the fact that the at risk

borrowers might default. They only look at the possibility of default. They relished the higher interest rate assigned to the at risk borrower, but

did not accept the fact that the designated potential defaulters could in fact default. Your basic over all analysis is also at fault because you

do not understand that out of work means out of money.

[girl gone mad]

40. What an odd post.

I wasn't even replying to you, unless you also post under the ID "statistical".

Whatever random arguments you were trying to make have already been totally invalidated by the fact that Wal-Mart's same store growth is rapidly declining (see http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/01/dismal-december-retail-sales-wal-mart.html">Dismal December Retail Sales; Wal-Mart Leads Retailers in Slashing Profit Forecasts).

Tens of thousands of factories have already shut down in China (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7713594.stm">Chinese job losses prompt exodus ).

American consumers are already cutting back on prescriptions and reducing their grocery budgets (see http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/realitybase/2008/10/23/drugonomics-cash-strapped-americans-taking-fewer-prescription-meds/">Cash-Strapped Americans Taking Fewer Prescription Meds).

Wal-Mart can't even offer deep discounts to lure shoppers back since they already sell cheap junk at cheap prices. They can't cut wages since they already pay minimum wage (or less to the their undocumented workers). They were counting on growth in emerging markets to make up for saturation in America. The global recession has put an end to that ridiculous notion.

Next time you want to spout your useless pro-corporate opinions, it would help to at least be current on the latest economic news to within a few days or weeks.

[Citizen Number 9]

41. Doesn't matter. I was definitely responding to you.

In particular I was addressing your inability to accurately perceive what is directly in front of you.

Read your own article again. Same store sales GREW at WalMart by 1.7%.

If you have any actual knowledge of China, it certainly doesn't result in understanding. China is a huge and growing economy. Their internal growth rate is staggering. Even with the losses of exports, the Chinese economy barely dropped out of double digit growth for the first time in 6 years.

I think Americans might find ways to reduce their grocery and drug expenditures through coupon and discount shopping, but, as I said before, both of those are relatively inelastic. When they do want to reduce this budget, where do you think they go? WalMart! :rofl:

Please report to us what the growth rate in drug sales was for 2008 and what it is expected to be for 2009. (Prescription)
While you're at it, please report what the growth rate in supermarket sales was. (Grocery)

What a surprise that Food and Pharmacy are two of the fastest growing departments at WalMart despite your increasingly worthless talk.

Think HARD about this next one now; where are people going to shop if WalMart is ALREADY the discount shopping experience?


What I have been posting is neither PRO nor ANTI corporation. They are simply facts.

[girl gone mad]

43. You need to read it again

same store sales growth fell by over 50%. That's HORRIBLE news for a corporation that depends entirely on the growth model to appease shareholders and justify massive bonuses for executives. They had to revise forward earnings estimates downward by 15%. And they're supposedly benefiting from the recession? lol

Not only do I have extensive knowledge of China, I lived there for over a year and I still have family and friends living there whom I speak to weekly. China's growth rate WAS staggering, but it was based on the credit bubble in America. What was unthinkable even a year ago now seems likely: China may face negative growth as soon as this year. Their recession is going to be even deeper than ours. Again, you betray a complete lack of education on current financial trends. You can keep up on China's economy here: http://mpettis.com/ or read this weekend's Wall Street Journal: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123159245180171131.html

You were totally and completely wrong on food and prescription expenditures being inelastic, as my link proved. If you had bothered to read the link, you could see that Merck's sales declined 13% in the 3rd quarter and they're laying off 7200 employees. A little more reading, a little less bloviating will help your cause.

People who reduce their spending at Wal-Mart won't be shopping anywhere else. Why is this simple concept so hard for you to get through your thick little skull? We have entered a new age of frugality. People are spending less money. They are wearing the same clothes longer rather than keeping up with trends. They are driving the same cars longer rather than trading them in for something new every 3 years. They are buying used goods, trading and bartering. They are joining with neighbors to buy cheap food in bulk, taking fewer prescription drugs and eating less. This is the new economic era we are in. It does not bode well for Wal-Mart.

[Statistical]

47. Did you even read what you posted.

Walmart gain 1.2%
Costco decline 4.0%
Target decline 4.1%
Macys decline 5.3%
Sears decline 7.3%
JC Penny decline 8.1%
Limited Brands decline 10.0%
Wet Seal decline 12.5%
Gap Inc decline 14.4%
Saks decline 19.8%
Abercrombie decline 24.0%
Neiman Marcus decline 27.5%

Sure Walmart growth is slowing, we are in a RECESSION however they are still growing.

The idea that Walmart only sells "chinese junk" is laughable.
If a consumer buys say Apple IPhone do you think it will be made at a different location than Apple Iphone sold @ AT&T stores?

A box of Wheaties sold at Walmart comes from the same factory that the box of Wheaties sold at Farm Fresh does.
A copy of latest game on 360 or PS3. There isn't a cheap Walmart knock off version and an every other store version.

Is most of Apparel sold at Walmart from China? Yup. Is most of the Apparel for virtually all other Apparel from China? Yup.

Once again....
Record WMT stock and check on it in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years then compare it to any other retailer.

[girl gone mad]

48. wmt growth trajectory is rapidly declining,

despite the fact that every move they make is designed solely to grow sales. Make no mistake, the news was grim and investors responded accordingly. Having said that, I would never gauge a company's health by the price of their stock. How quickly the lesson of enron appears to have been forgotten.

[.... callchet ....]

38. Statistical

Walmart has around 5,000 stores in the USA. They exist on the edge of poverty. They have all of one group of consumers. They do not have a

diversified customer base. Their largest customer base is the most at risk segment of the USA population. They are balanced on a precarious precipice.

[Statistical]

46. Sure....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15626611/

The average household income of Wal-Mart shoppers is around $35,000 to $40,000

Now $35K-$40 isn't "rich" and it is below the median but the idea that only the poorest of the poor shop at Walmart is kinda laughable.

[Common Sense Party]

53. That's ridiculous and patently untrue.

It's obvious you've never been in a Wal-Mart. If you were, your eyes must have been closed.

[CoffeeCat]

19. Walmart's increased sales are a bad sign...

Walmart is getting business from consumers that normally shop at higher-end stores--and this happens at multiple levels.

There are several grocery stores in most cities. Most of these stores have groceries that are priced a bit higher than Walmart.
Some grocery stores have much higher prices than Walmart--like Harris Teeter and Whole Foods. People are opting to shop for
their groceries at Walmart, because their prices are lower. This is happening more at the middle-class and upper-middle class
levels. People who once shopped at specialty grocery stores or locally owned stores--are "shopping down" at Walmart to save money.

Also, more people are avoiding specialty stores--such as pet stores, home-improvement stores and toy stores--because Walmart is cheaper.
Walmart is expanding its pet department to kill their competitors (PetSmart, PetCo), and they're doing it by offering more
products and lowering prices. ToysRUs is hurting and KB Toys filed for bankruptcy, and I imagine this is because of that trend--people
perceive that Walmart has cheaper prices and that these specialty stores cannot match those prices.

Lastly, unless you're in the top 5 percent--you're worried as hell. You're seeing your 401k tank, you're worried about job security
and what will happen to the economy in 2009. You're trying to save as much cash as possible. Everyone is in savings mode. That means
that upper-middle class and middle class people are turning to Walmart for EVERYTHING--because they believe Walmart is cheaper.

All you have to do is look at the slumping sales of major retailers that sell clothing, housewares, gifts, home-improvement items, electronics,
furniture, toys--to understand that people are buying LESS and when they're buying it--they're buying it more at Walmart because they're
getting it cheaper.

This is a frightening trend that will bankrupt and kill off untold numbers of retailers---causing more unemployment, further erosion of 401ks
and the continued downward spiral of our economy.

[Citizen Number 9]

29. I don't see how WalMart can possibly offer more products

than the specialty stores. They just don't have the room.

The advent of department stores killed a lot of specialty retailers. People find it convenient to shop under one roof, particularly if they are not spending on the harder-to-find special items that WalMart can't stock anyway.

People want one-stop shopping because of gas and overall low pricing.

Anyone for government subsidizing of the big-box retailers in order to save jobs?

[GSPowner]

20. Please provide evidence for each of your accuasitions.

you are spouting opinions or guesses and parroting Walmart hating groups.

1) Indiscriminately buy foreign (mostly Chinese) made goods, without verifying they are safe (even after the problems were known).

Unless you are on the Walmart Purchasing team you have no idea what their buying strategy is or what their policies are. Find some incriminating evidence to support this and you may get traction.

2) Based on 1), they promote poor working condition for foreign workers, and even child labor.

Again based upon an unproven premise and jumping to a conclusion that is not an easy "if this then that" argument.

2) Pay less than living wages and actively try and prevent employee organization.

They have the right to discourage employee organization. I am a former union memeber before I get flamed for this comment. And I also see them paying what the market will demand for this type of labor.

3) The drive out smaller community based business that are, in the long run, better for everyone.

I do happen to agree in part to this comment but not based upon opinion...but rather based upon imperical evidence during my studies in University. The better for the everyone in the long run part is not so accurate all the time.

Case in point...Walmart built a "Big Box" in a small city of about 4,000 people...a place where my dad grew up. It put the local hardware store and one of the local grocery stores out of business. However, the benefit it did provide were jobs that had insurance and benefits that were not being provided by the locals...so yea loss of jobs and business for some but more jobs that provided benefits to others.

[Art_from_Ark]

22. Wal-Mart's first-ever "big box"

was opened in Rogers, Arkansas, on July 2, 1962 as Wal-Mart Discount City. At the time, the population of the town was also about 4,000, and there was a very vibrant downtown section just a few blocks down the street from the new Wal-Mart where you could buy just about anything you needed for daily living. Downtown was home to two five-and-dimes, three or four clothing stores, two shoe stores, two hardware stores, three pharmacies, three supermarkets (not including the one that was next to Wal-Mart), three jewelry stores, one paint store, one stationery/office supply store, one appliance store, three auto parts stores, two movie theaters, three or four gas stations, a Sears catalog store, two or three barber shops, a library, a seed store, a book store, and various other establishments. Most of these businesses were still going at the end of the '60s, but by the mid-'70s, they started dying off and were replaced with specialty shops that had a shelf life of only a few years.

In contrast to the dying downtown area, Wal-Mart was expanding, and moved to a larger building diagonally across the street from its original store in the mid-70s. It also started an agressive expansion campaign around this time, proudly proclaiming on local television commercials that there were now 100 Wal-Mart stores, then 200, then 300, and so on. More and more people started doing more and more of their shopping at Wal-Mart, and the downtown area of Rogers, Arkansas became increasingly irrelevant. Today, with a city population of approximately 50,000, downtown is just a shell of its former self. Although the downtown area maintains an atmosphere of human activity, nearly all of the vibrant businesses of the '60s are long gone, with just the stationery store, a bargain store, and a jewelry store remaining from that era. Most of the new businesses seem to close up in just a couple of years now. And in just the last few months, 2 or 3 downtown stores on one side of a block have closed their doors for good.

In the meantime, Wal-Mart has moved even farther away from the old downtown area and always seems to be packed.

Of course, other factors, such as the rerouting of a highway away from the downtown area (but still going right past Wal-Mart) in 1980 or thereabouts, also contributed to downtown's decline.

[satyr9us]

24. It isn't just

that all those things are true. They are.

But to the point that Wal-Mart pays less than living wages and actively tries to prevent employee organization-- it's the depths they descend to in intimidating their workers that actually makes unionization so necessary. This summer, a judge in Minnesota found that Wal-Mart management had systematically http://www.startribune.com/business/35819094.html">abused and traumatized a group of women working in a Minnesota store, and that the company had committed over two million violations of labor law.

I do some work with Wake-Up Wal-Mart to try to force America's largest retailer to treat its workforce with respect; you can sign our petition http://wakeupwalmart.com/">here.

[.... callchet ....]

25. Walmart is up

Because people have bought them out of guns and ammo. The shelves of 9mm .38 and glocks are empty and bought up as soon as any come in the store. People are preparing for rioting and self preservation. The people that shop at Walmart are part the 12,000,000 that are unemployed now, and they know what shape the country is in.

[Citizen Number 9]

27. Again, No.

9mm, .38 and Glocks are handguns and there are no handguns on the shelves at WalMart because they haven't even sold handguns in a decade. Alaska is the only state they have them in.

More than a third of the WalMart stores don't sell any guns at all.

Who do you think is going to be causing the rioting?

In any case, the police are charged with conducting public safety, not individual citizens with weapons.

[.... callchet ....]

30. Sorry about glocks

Was talkikng about the most polular ammunition and the most popular gun. Wal-Mart does not sell handguns. The top 1,000 Wal-Mart

stores sell guns. Glocks are sold out and back ordered all over the country. Almost 4/5 ths of the Wal-Mart stores don't sell guns.

To my knowledge all the Wal-Mart stores sell all types of ammunition. Rioting will start when people are at wits end.


12,000,000 are now unemployed. As they use up their resources and their families and friends resources civil order will breakdown.

If Obama sets up food banks, he might avert that.


"the police are charged with conducting public safety, not individual citizens with weapons." As you said in an earlier post

something like to to the limits of our ability ". Well the police can only do the same.

[Citizen Number 9]

31. I am just hoping that whatever constitutes "wits end"

hasn't been too warped by the easy living in the last decade.

If they get distraught over losing the 3,000 SF house they bought a couple years ago with no down payment, I hope they can keep it under control.

If they need food, they should look up an entitlement program. Do you know anything about Food Stamps? Every state has a program.

[.... callchet ....]

32. The people

with the 3000 sf houses comprise a very small insignificant number of the people in trouble. Food stamps won't be able to respond

to a significant increase unemployed running out of benefits. When the people that are unemployed now run out of benefits, they will

overwhelm the food stamp system.

[Citizen Number 9]

33. So, now you are saying that the entitlement system will deny food

stamps to those who qualify?

Chet. This is not a very realistic view of how things are done here. You need to take a step back and take a breath and think about what you are saying and maybe even think about these expectations you've voiced.

[.... callchet ....]

37. The system will back up

the system has so many people running so many jobs. As the demand increases productivity will fall. There is no incentive to give more food away.

Thee is no reward for reaching a new high record for how much food is given away. No employee of the month or bonus for increases in production.

The system is based on status quo and geared toward reductions. I know you have seen the unemployment numbers. Most people live paycheck to

paycheck. These people do not look at unemployment as a break in their creative period. They are out of a job and out of money. That is life. It

is no surprise to anybody, in fact a source of pleasure to some who may say, " well, they should have prepared for that". Deny again, only to the

"limit of our ability". Office closes and turns people away. Are they denied ?

[Citizen Number 9]

42. Chet. They are called entitlement programs.

That means that qualified people are entitled by law to food stamps or general assistance. It doesn't have anything to do with demand and productivity.

If the office is closed they can return on the next business day.

In many states you can even apply online.

[barb162]

36. All the accusations are factual, plus

they have been sued by many states about their unfair labor practices, such as not paying for overtime, etc.

Don't shop there and tell people not to shop there for the above reasons.

[Jack Sprat]

45. I am going to tell them.

I never thought of it before, but that's precisely what I'm going to do. I will not shop there, nor will I allow others to shop there without warning them of the consequences. This will bring results when nothing else seems to.

[Jack Sprat]

44. Close the Walmarts down.

If foreign imports are levied with high import taxes, then American made becomes the standard again. BTW, I buy some great lightweight t-shirts from American Apparel. They are the best I have ever worn in quality and fit.

Making shit into shinola has been our undoing. We are running out of shit. Then, what are we going to do?

[Common Sense Party]

50. Yeah, massive import tariffs. That'll help us.

:eyes: