We're on the edge of something

[phantom power]

I kind of liked this passage, mostly because it's exactly how I feel. Top of the rapid, passing the horizon line.

But there's an equally eerie vibe out there that things are seriously out-of-whack. We're on the edge of something. We're at the entrance of a dark passage where some of the ceremonies of daily life meet resistance. You go to the WalMart and five of your six credit cards are refused. Uh oh. It begins to dawn on you that you're spending a quarter of your take-home pay filling up the gas-tank every week. There's no dial tone when you pick up the telephone. How could all the supermarkets in town be out of rice? The local hospital just declared bankruptcy. The neighbors down the street auctioned off all their furniture in the driveway last week. Why does the cat pick up so many ticks these days?

Events are not through with us this year. They'll keep moving where they will whether we believe in them or not. I'm hardly even convinced that it matters who wins the presidential race this year. It could end up being the world's biggest booby prize.

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/2008/04/belief-system.html

[mac2]

1. I agree.

Their PNAC plan goes forward while we fight among ourselves.

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=11305386&content_dir=ua_congressorg

[GliderGuider]

3. PNAC vs. the universe

A couple of years ago I thought PNAC's plans were something to get outraged about -- they were something exceptional to be resisted and, if resistance was successful, consigned to the dustbin of history with a small prayer of thanks.

I no longer think that way.

PNACs plans are not exceptional, their goals are shared by every political and economic oligarchy in the world. As Naomi Klein has made clear, there are a lot of such oligarchies, each with their own set of well-developed plans. I don't think PNAC's plans are even worth getting terribly outraged over. I view PNAC now as simply another force of nature, though this one originates within our culture instead of out in the physical landscape. Of course they need to be resisted, and we need to protect ourselves against them much like try to protect ourselves from hurricanes. But to get outraged over their actions is as useful as getting annoyed at a hurricane.

In the long run (hell even in the medium term and possibly in the short term as well) their actions are of far less importance than the changes taking place in our biophysical environment as we run into the Limits to Growth. Compared to the civilization-crushing power of Peak Oil, Climate Change, dying oceans, melting glaciers and all the rest, PNAC is a flea-bite on an elephant's butt and their "plans" are just a demonstration of their pitiful, insignificant hubris.

[Dead_Parrot]

2. I think the word you're looking for, is

Oblivion.

[GliderGuider]

4. Why do you think it's oblivion?

Our civilization may falter or fail, our culture will undergo a massive transformation, circumstances will become very difficult, and many may die prematurely. But we will not all simply be snuffed out. To characterize these changes as "oblivion" says a lot more about one's personal attachments to the world than about the changes themselves. I know, I've been there. "Oblivion" is your ego's fear talking.

Really hard times, yes. Early deaths for many, yes. "Oblivion"? Maybe not so much.

[Dhalgren]

6. Death IS oblivion,

anyone telling you differently is selling something...

[GliderGuider]

9. On an individual level, sure.

I got the impression it was being used here in a more general sense, though, and that doesn't strike me as reasonable.

Even the nature and timing of your own death isn't all that predictable, though the fact that you will eventually die is a fairly banal truth. But there is nothing in the nature of the looming crisis that improves the predictability of any particular death, let alone your own. As always, we will only know that our time has come when the probability wave collapses. Until then we are all Schrodinger's cats.

[Dead_Parrot]

7. Depends on your definition, I suspect

I'm not talking end-of-humans oblivion, I'm talking 425AD-in-Wales oblivion.

I'm not actually sure which is worse...

[GliderGuider]

11. My British history isn't up to scratch for that period, I'm afraind

What about 425 CE in Wales brings oblivion to mind?

[Dead_Parrot]

12. Try google

You will get 0 hits, because there really is fuck-all you can write about mud, and memories of technology...

:(

(Sorry, been reading Jared again)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/425 - if it helps.

[GliderGuider]

13. Ah, got it.

But then surely Wales in 425 represents oblivion to us, rather than to the people who lived there at that time? At least they had their mud and their memories, as we will...

[Dhalgren]

15. Man! I really have to hand it to you!

You are really trying to put as good a spin on the collapse of civilization as you possibly can! And may the gods-bless-you for it! Keep it up!

:hi:

[GliderGuider]

17. What are the options?

Slitting my wrists seems a little excessive. My despair has already cost me my partner, there is no point losing my sanity as well.

The new front page of my web site will give you a glimpse of where I'm taking this.

[Dead_Parrot]

16. I think it's the memories that will be the pisser

A few days ago I recalled that, as part of my degree, I weighed a moonbeam. I Think I can remember enough to teach my daughter how to do it, but after that...

Bleh. The future is turning to custard.

edit: And mud.

[GliderGuider]

18. This exactly why living in the Now is so important.

We can't reach back into the past and we can't access the future. Trying to live in either the past or the future just brings heartache and frustration. The past holds unalterable regrets and the future contains nothing but unrealized hopes. So as New-Agey as it sounds, Now is really all we have. The more we can live in the present moment, the saner we will be. I think this skill is going to be a literal life-saver for many as things unfold.

[Dead_Parrot]

19. Again with the definitions...

"Now" is kind of relative...



Or, for that matter...



;)

[GliderGuider]

20. My definition

When I say Now I mean this very instant in time. Not today or this year, but Right Now. When you gather your personal awareness into the present moment, that's Now. It's sort of a Buddhist thang...

[Dead_Parrot]

34. I know what you mean...

...but it requires not thinking about my daughter's future for a while. Not an easy thing to do deliberately. :(

[depakid]

24. Hey, what about Camelot?

Brief, but glorious.

[Nihil]

26. On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.

(and probably full of mud)
:crazy:

[depakid]

32. If you don't like mud in your shoes, then get your wellies on

http://www.walledtowns.com/wtfc/towninfo/wales/caerleon.html

http://www.britannia.com/history/arthur/caerleon.html

[Dhalgren]

5. The Energy Wars have already begun.

The Food Wars will soon follow. Politics get real simple when folks begin starving. The problem with all these wars is that they consume so much food and fuel - they are horribly counter productive, but seem unavoidable.

Some of us could probably grow our own food, but how would we be able to protect it and ourselves? For every one person in a situation and setting capable of growing some food, there are thousands who can't and aren't...

If you want to be completely depressed to the point of despair, read Cormac McCarthy's "The Road". It is about the end of civilization and food and, well, everything...

[Dead_Parrot]

8. ...and we're losing. nt

[stuntcat]

21. and just wait til we start fighting for water

I know I'm lucky to be able to water my little veggie garden.. for now.

[Dhalgren]

22. Right! The Water Wars. Those will be the worst...

[GliderGuider]

23. Yay! Something to look forward to.

At last. :party:

[Dhalgren]

27. Relax, you do not have the right to tell any of us how we

should react to this kind of situation. You can give us your advice (which you are not loath to give), but brow-beating and belittling is crossing the line. If any of us are too stupid or dim-witted or too easily excited for your exalted intelligence, just ignore us. Looking down on people in silence is at least less offensive...

[GliderGuider]

28. Whoa there

That was just kidding around -- a bit of gallows humour. No belittling or browbeating was intended at all.

Yes, I know I'm not shy about offering advice, but mostly these days its because I see people panicking and making themselves unnecessarily miserable about an unpredictable future. I would love to help people avoid the kind of shit I went through for the last couple of years, and I see all too many who are falling into it. I'm still pretty new at this part of the process, though, so my attempts are a bit clumsy. The internet is a hard place to communicate offbeat ideas, what with the lack of eye contact and all. I'll try and learn a lighter touch.

[Dhalgren]

29. If I over reacted, I apologize. I will admit that I can do that.

There is a legitimate amount of worry to be expected regarding the, apparently, very unpleasant future and humans are not only entitled to worry, but it is healthy to do so - within limits, I agree.

That "lighter touch" thing? I might try that myself...

:hi:

[GliderGuider]

30. No harm, no foul

Worry is healthy. Panic and despair, maybe not so much.
:toast:

[Dead_Parrot]

10. Like this?

[phantom power]

14. Fly Thelma! Fly and be free!

[pscot]

25. I get the sense that some of us are letting this

affect our sense of humor. We take ourselves way too seriously. A hundred years ago, Teddy Roosevelt was the best known man on the planet, today, not one person in a hundred could tell you who he was. We are mere ephemera. Don't let today's troubles cloud your wah. If your concern is survival, find a sustainable community and make yourself useful. In a hundred years, your worries will be long past. As for World Civ, if Ipods, Tatas and 24 hour surveillance are the best we can do, maybe it's time to start over.

[Dhalgren]

31. I think that it is the implied disregard for human life that bothers

me the most. Of course we are all insignificant in the long stretch of life and time and Being, but the attitude that hundreds of millions of violent, agonizing, premature deaths are just to shrug at is dismaying, to say the least. I have a fairly well developed sense of sick humor, it is just that some things are not funny...

[Nihil]

33. Honest question:

Do you think that the majority of these hundreds of millions of premature
deaths are avoidable? (i.e., working from the world that we have today?)

I think they would have been avoidable had action been taken a few decades
ago (or even one decade ago) but, although we might "save" some by acting
from today onwards (unlikely though that seems), I honestly can't see that
a mass die-off is anything other than inevitable. That view may come across
as sick humour but (in my case anyway) it is more to do with helplessness.

:shrug:

[Dhalgren]

35. I can certainly understand the helpless feeling.

No, at this point I do not think that the "die-off" can be avoided. This sort of thing has commonly happened to species in the long (but short) history of this planet and in the past it has almost certainly been, in part, because the species most affected were unaware of any impending doom. We are (to some extent) aware of the coming "hardships", but still seem unable to do anything constructive regarding it. Maybe we aren't really that different from the trillobites...