As Talks Begin, Scientists Report Climate Breakdown Faster, More Sweeping Than IPCC Outlook - AFP

[hatrack]

PARIS (AFP) – Earth's climate appears to be changing more quickly and deeply than a benchmark UN report for policymakers predicted, top scientists said ahead of international climate talks starting Monday in Poland. Evidence published since the Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change's (IPCC) February 2007 report suggests that future global warming may be driven not just by things over which humans have a degree of control, such as burning fossil fuels or destroying forest, a half-dozen climate experts told AFP.

Even without additional drivers, the IPCC has warned that current rates of greenhouse gas emissions, if unchecked, would unleash devastating droughts, floods and huge increases in human misery by century's end. But the new studies, they say, indicate that human activity may be triggering powerful natural forces that would be nearly impossible to reverse and that could push temperatures up even further. At the top of the list for virtually all of the scientists canvassed was the rapid melting of the Arctic ice cap.

"In the last couple of years, Arctic Sea ice is at an all-time low in summer, which has got a lot of people very, very concerned," commented Robert Watson, Chief Scientific Advisor for Britain's department for environmental affairs and chairman of the IPCC's previous assessment in 2001. "This has implication's for Earth's climate because it can clearly lead to a positive feedback effect," he said in an interview. When the reflective ice surface retreats, the Sun's radiation -- heat -- is absorbed by open water rather than bounced back into the atmosphere, creating a vicious circle of heating.

"We had always known that the Arctic was going to respond first," said Mark Serreze of the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colorado. "What has us puzzled is that the changes are even faster than we would have thought possible," he said by phone.

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081130/sc_afp/unclimatewarmingscience_081130072511

[quidam56]

1. The Appalachian Mountains are changing more quickly than ever !

Thanks to Presidebt Bush and THE COAL INDUSTRY - Appalachia Main Street is Third World America. http://www.wisecountyissues.com We can't stand anymore of the prosperity in Wise County, Virginia !

[Gregorian]

2. As fast as we may be moving toward renewable energy conversion, there is something bugging me.

There are big areas of land, such as in the Ukraine, that we are just beginning to utilize for farming.

Anyone who is familiar with the Haber-Bosch process knows that our fertilizers in large part are created artificially. One percent of the world's energy is used in this process. In fact, it's so critical to our survival that if it were to stop, a third of the human race would simply starve. 700 million tons of fixed nitrogen are made each year through this process. And by the way, it's killing our oceans.

But unless we can move agriculture over to a community based production, we will still be dependent upon internal combustion for much of what supports us. And there are places where local agriculture can no longer take place because the land just doesn't exist any more. Not to mention places like Alaska. Papayas in Alaska?

My point is this- We're in an emergency. The population is the major factor in that equation, and it is constant, essentially. Or even increasing. The other factor is petroleum combustion based consumption. It is my belief that given that we can only alter the petroleum combustion by a fraction, and not completely eliminate it, we may not be able to decrease greenhouse gases enough to avert disaster.

[bertman]

5. Sad but true, Gregorian. Our mammalian brains can't grasp the complexity of this

impending catastrophe. And our so-called leaders are beholden to those who have created this situation and who profit the most from it.

No one even mentions water anymore. We had a severe drought in our neck of the woods a year ago. Water restrictions, et al. As soon as we got back to normal precip everything went back to consumption as usual. And not only are our water tables dropping every year, they're becoming more polluted just as fast. Oh hell, hatrack got me started on the doom and gloom!!

I'm just hoping that I will have departed this mortal plane before the excrement really hits the air movement device.

That, or Jesus comes real soon and saves us all.

[Gregorian]

6. Well, I do have positive comments on the overall subject of modern society.

I had a wonderful time over the last five days. I spent it at my mom and dad's place. They have a vineyard, and big garden, all surrounded by oaks and stuff. My dad's just about 85. But he's one hell of a smart, open minded, liberal man. And my mom is like a teenager. They never miss a Daily Show.

We talked quite a bit about the difficult subjects. Population has always been a discussion point for us. But this time we decided to step over the line and get "lazy". Instead of trying to solve the problems of the world, we looked at the benefits of modern society. We got in the BMW sedan and meandered downtown to one of their world class restaurants. Oh my god, espresso, deep fried calamari in a rice vinegar sauce. Lamb kebabs to die for. We talked about renewable energy, and how finally we're starting to introduce electric cars onto the market. It's easy to be upset after having seen electric car shows back in the early sixties. We talked about the early jobs my dad had. An inertial guidance system that used a telescope to see stars in order to guide it. No satellites yet. And then we started looking at the positive side of all of this. Or rather the difficult side to what we were before we were this. I recently sold a farm. In the 1800's or so they ground their own flour. Made their own butter. An hour and a half drive would have taken at least a day or two by horse. And horses get sick. And they have to be cared for. There was far less diversity. Life was tough. I love my wood stove, but there are times when I want to flip a switch and have warmth. It's a convenient world now. It's pretty damned amazing the centuries of brilliant minds that all culminated in this. We've worked together as a specie to build upon each other's ideas and create something that is pretty sophisticated.

And there is this entire evolution. The genome project. Hubble. Refrigeration. And now, Cern. So where will it all go? And why? Perhaps it leads to something that transcends the human condition. I keep using that phrase. And for a moment I even considered that global warming might just be a small price to pay for something that does indeed transcend this place. E=MC2. And what will be the next discovery? When one looks at the sun compared to earth, and then Antares compared to the sun. The earth is like an atomic particle in size. And then when one realizes that our galaxy is just one infinitely small portion of the universe, well, one starts to see a perspective that is inspiring. I begin to wonder. Just what is important?

[bertman]

7. Indeed we have many wonderful and almost unbelievable ways of life-enchancement

that no one would have envisioned even 100 years ago. I love them as much as the next lazy, pleasure-seeking human and I really don't feel guilty about it a bit. What I feel is remorse that we (collective human we) have been so shortsighted in our quest for the better life.

I think it's just because we're animals and follow the alpha males' lead--or else.

Maybe we will find the technological "fix" that will undo all we have done to impair the human/animal nurturing processes of the planet. From a cosmological perspective, as you so aptly stated it, our planet is a mere speck in the universe and we're just some critters doing what critters do. Hopefully we're smart enough and flexible enough and aware enough to keep the good and leave the bad behind--before it's too late.

[Gregorian]

8. Our weakness- we didn't know when to stop.

But who am I to judge. For all I know maybe we're supposed to just be fruitful and multiply. And engineer.

Speaking of which, I must get back to designing my new house. Yes, I too am a horrible consumer. :)

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. AM Hate Radio Unanimously Disagrees!

There is a whole industry built to deny man driven climate change. It is quite bizarre to contemplate that the human species may have reached it's peak in our lifetime. One wonders whether the decline of our species will be gradual or more of a great "die off". One thing is certain, this planet will easily survive the next hundreds of million years without a single human on it. We will have been but a mere blip at the top of the food chain.

[stuntcat]

10. the only part I'm sad about is..

is all the beautiful species we're wiping out. I know species come and go, ages pass, the Earth can churn us up and start over. But one species wiping out hundreds of others is the worst thing I can think of, worse than any other kind of violation.

I'm waiting for a religious group, ANYONE PLEASE, to really start sticking up for the parts of the Earth we're completely erasing. They all fail though.

[XemaSab]

4. .

[babydollhead]

9. kick

[FedUpWithIt All]

11. "Faster than expected"...again.

They are "puzzled" and "shocked". :eyes:

They sure are slow at getting it. It will CONTINUE to exceed their projections.