States give cyclists room to ride

[phantom power]

Yes, "not throwing things" would be nice. What is the matter with people?
:eyes:

As more riders take to the roads on bicycles, more states are giving them a bigger chunk of pavement — 3 feet to be precise — so they won't get swiped by cars.

A Colorado law recently signed by Democratic Gov. Bill Ritter not only requires motorists to give riders at least a 3-foot-wide berth, it also makes it illegal to throw things at riders, says Dan Grunig, executive director of Bicycle Colorado. Previously, he says, police could only cite a motorist if they actually hit the rider.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-08-03-bikes_N.htm

[RT Atlanta]

1. Wish we'd get more in ATL

You have to really plan your bike routes here in town (or go very early and with a large group) to safely traverse the city streets here.

Hopefully, the trend will continue to move in favor of bicyclists too.

[Romulox]

2. Edit: non sequitur

[taterguy]

3. Even if you miss aren't you littering?

[MADem]

6. No shit! Isn't it illegal to throw things, at riders or pedestrians or whatever? NT

[hlthe2b]

4. I have some progressive friends that complain without end...

about cyclists, especially around Boulder where they are both numerous and extremely aggressive in terms of taking over the roads. Since I rarely experience packs of bikers, it surprised me that they were being so negative. I personally WANT more bike riders on the roads, so that from the demand, roads will be more bike friendly. I think it is a shame that so many roads and boulevards are banned to bike riders.

Nonetheless, the pattern of behavior described by my less tolerant BOulder friends suggests a developing pattern of endangerment from the biker side of the equation. That said, I can never imagine ANYONE doing ANYTHING to endanger or harrass a biker. But, they do. Whether it is randomly openng a car door into traffic from a parked car into the bike lane, or far more aggressive actions, it needs to be prosecuted seriously...

But,what we really need is bike friendly roads that can better accomodate both.

[phantom power]

5. I have seen the kind of thing your Boulder friends have, in Ann Arbor.

I used to run into it all the time driving along the Huron river. I'm happy to share the road with bikers, but I will say the one particular thing I found aggravating was that the bikers could have traveled single file, and made it safe for cars to pass them. Instead they would travel two or three abreast, and cars would be forced to pile up behind them.

There seems to be some deliberate animosity here. "We're legal vehicles, and we can fill up this road and there is nothing you cars can do about it." Which I suppose is true, but it's not a very healthy dynamic.

[taterguy]

7. I absolutely agree

Of course I do most of my riding solo or with one other person.

The only time I'm in a group is for charity rides, or training for charity rides.

The weird thing is that most group riders rarely ride for basic transportation. I'm not sure why that is.

[OKIsItJustMe]

9. Blocking auto traffic by riding two or three abreast as you describe may be illegal (It is in NYS.)

http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/bike-vt.htm#sec1234

(b) Persons riding bicycles or skating or gliding on in-line skates upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast. Persons riding bicycles or skating or gliding on in-line skates upon a shoulder, bicycle or in-line skates lane, or bicycle or in-line skates path, intended for the use of bicycles or in-line skates may ride two or more abreast if sufficient space is available, except that when passing a vehicle, bicycle or person on in-line skates, or pedestrian, standing or proceeding along such shoulder, lane or path, persons riding bicycles or skating or gliding on in-line skates shall ride, skate, or glide single file. Persons riding bicycles or skating or gliding on in-line skates upon a roadway shall ride, skate, or glide single file when being overtaken by a vehicle.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. That kind of brainless behavior is why I mount dual 110dB horns on my cars/truck/motorcycles

Cager or cyclist, it wakes them up

[NNadir]

8. As a bicyclist who has deliberately been hit by a car, I say we build

bike paths away from cars wherever possible.

Personally I like the Times Square Business where they screwed with the flow of cars in order to make it safer for bicyclists.

Cars are extremely toxic. Bicycles are negligibly toxic.

In order to discourage cars we should start making them pay for their external costs.

[phantom power]

13. was that the one that nearly killed you?

[NNadir]

18. No, the one that nearly killed me involved road sand and a hill.

I killed the car.

It was totaled.

I felt very bad for the driver of the car, who was uninjured, but could have easily been killed if he were taller.

I sheared the top of the car off completely, from what I am told.

I have no memory of the accident, and was unconcious for days.

[phantom power]

19. errr... damn.

That sounds like some f/x shit out of a john woo movie that they would film in slow motion.

Lucky to be alive, you are.

[NNadir]

21. Yeah. If I had my life to live over again though...

...I would probably choose to have that accident again on some level.

I can assure you that it changed my outlook on the world entirely. I can hardly imagine that I would have spent so much time thinking about energy without it. Without that accident it would have been very easy to have become a, um, bourgeois consumer brat.

I started the whole bike commuting thing because I was uncomfortable with the US "Support-for-Savak for oil" thing, but afterwards it was on a whole different level.

[madokie]

24. Well it appears you came about this honestly

The this being so fucking stoopid as to think it's fine to make the kind of stupid ass talking down to everyone who doesn't agree with you type posts you make on the DU E/E forum. I feel better now that I know the reasons, thanks for clarifying this up for me. Now I go :cry: for you

[NNadir]

27. I'm hardly alone...

...in talking down to people for whom I have zero intellectual, moral or personal respect.

In fact, this sort of thing has been legion for many centuries as one might know if one had an intellectual life that was not devoted to speaking from ignorance.

It is almost 170 years since Sir David Brewster, one of the most astute commentators on the history of science, and in fact a great scientist himself, addressed the role of sarcasm and derision in confronting ignorance, particularly aggressive and vicious ignorance, the kind of ignorance that kills people.

Quoth Brewster, speaking of a prominent scientist of the 17th century who was violently accosted by, um, the ignorant:

The ardour of (his) mind, the keenness of his temper, his clear perception of truth, and his inextinguishable love of it, combined to exasperate and prolong the hostility of his enemies. When argument failed to enlighten their judgment, and reason to dispel their prejudices, he wielded against them his powerful weapons of<58> ridicule and sarcasm; and in this unrelenting warfare, he seems to have forgotten that Providence had withheld from his enemies those very gifts which he had so liberally received.

While I have great respect for Brewster, I don't buy his critical claim - implicit in this piece - that the informed and enlightened - i.e. those who work at understanding owe fools who don't work forbearance of any sort or, in fact, anything else.

A fool is a fool is a fool...

I think the period between 2001 and 2009 bore well what it meant to indulge fools.

And speaking of fools, "Thou shouldst not have been old till thou hadst
been wise..."

In these times, fools are pernicious, not passive, and not without moral and practical consequence.

I have had good reason to reflect recently on the ethics of accommodating ignorance and had to make choices about it. I am now more convinced than ever that it is morally and ethically wrong to indulge in it or to acquiesce in it however much power it may unjustly accumulate.

I note that the whiny babies who cry the most about my personality are precisely those whose intellectual weakness leaves them preternaturally unequipped to "dispel their prejudice."

Cry or don't cry. I couldn't care less. I am certainly aware of the indifference of a certain set that whines here on the life or death or near death of other people.

But if you must cry, don't involve me. I have an ever weaker stomach. I want, in case you missed it, no part of you.

Cry to it, nuncle, as the cockney did to the eels
when she put 'em i' the paste alive; she knapped 'em
o' the coxcombs with a stick, and cried 'Down,
wantons, down!' 'Twas her brother that, in pure
kindness to his horse, buttered his hay.

[madokie]

28. You da man

what a fucking screed. Remember this, we'll not be building any more nuclear power plants in America. You think about that for a while big guy and then tell me who the fool is. Nuclear energy has never stood on its own, it's always required huge handouts from our government.

[OKIsItJustMe]

10. A couple of years ago, I had something thrown at me

It was for no reason I could decipher. I was riding next to the curb, a car passed me on the left, and something shattered(!) against a guardrail post to my right, accompanied by laughter from the car.

It was one of the scariest moments I've had on a bike.

[Systematic Chaos]

20. My wife had part of a hamburger thrown at her and almost got seriously hurt.

Once I was nearly decapitated by a large truck mirror when someone made no attempt to make room for me on the street.

I also got a broken wrist in a hit and run.

Nothing as bad as Nnadir's accidents, but still people are assholes sometimes.

[wtmusic]

11. What about getting shot in the ass with a pellet gun?

Had this email forwarded to me by someone in my bike club some months back:

"How do you know it's Valentine's Day? You are shot in the butt...while riding your bike on
PCH...except its not an arrow, its a BB gun...and its not Cupid, its a kid in a pick-up truck.
Ok, I'll start at the beginning...

This past Saturday, my wife, a few friends, and I set out to do a 45 mile ride in Malibu
along PCH. Around mile 35, just after we turned around at Las Posas, I felt a sharp pain
in my left side. First, I thought it was a rock kicked up by one of the cars. But then I
noticed the passenger of a passing pick-up truck was yelling and waving what looked to
be a pistol, while he laughed and taunted us. Then I realized that I had been shot with
something from that gun. I turned around and looked at my friend behind me and
immediately realized he had been shot as well. We stopped to make sure we weren't
losing blood and everything was alright. Thankfully, we just had a few large welts on our
behind from what must have been a BB or pellet gun. And even more thankful that we
didn't panic when we were hit so neither one of us crashed. We clearly remembered that it
was a red Toyota pick-up with a RockStar bumper sticker. We considered calling 911 but
decided against it since no one crashed and we just had a few welts. But we did want to
report it, especially thinking they may be doing this to cyclists up and down the coast. So
we decided to go to the next Park Ranger we see at a beach entrance thinking they will
advise us on the appropriate action. We were quickly informed by the Ranger that they
ARE Law Enforcement. We also come to find out they are very enthusiastic about this as
well and put a park ranger who was on the road on alert. I happened to see that park
ranger pull into the park just as we were leaving so I stopped to give him a detailed report
and off he went, driving south in search for the truck. I thought for sure the truck was in
Santa Monica by now, though. Unless they were dumb enough to pull over at one of the
beaches and go surfing. Hmmm...about 5 minutes later, a different ranger pulled up
beside me and told me they think they found the truck. I got in the car with him, leaving
my bike with my wife and friend. Sure enough, they were dumb enough to pull over, park
and go surfing.

My friend, who had gone ahead while I was giving the report, had already stopped at the
truck and was there with another ranger. The following is his account of finding the
truck..."About ten miles pass and I approach a favorite surf spot. Cars are parked all along
the road. I see a red Toyota...this one with Rockstar bumper stickers. Jackpot! I stop, look
up and whom do I see? A very enthusiastic Park Ranger in front of me. We look in the car
and we can see in plain view, the pellets and a bb gun under the seat. Now beach patrol is
involved getting the surfers to come out of the water. The driver is the first to come out of
the water and confesses everything when just asked to verify his identity. He gives up his
friend "the shooter" who eventually comes out of the water. The driver, who owns the two
guns found in the car, said his friend has done this many times before. The shooter
doesn't think this is serious because he's smiling and chuckling for quite awhile. And quite
frankly, I didn't think it was that serious either. I was even wondering if any of the law
enforcement were going to take this seriously but I was pleasantly surprised that the
Beach Patrol, Park Rangers, LA County and Ventura County Police ALL took this very
seriously."

The fallout: Both 'kids' (ages 18 and 19) were booked for 2 felonies - conspiracy to commit
a crime and assault with a deadly weapon. The conspiracy part is because the driver
slowed down to let the passenger shoot. Since both of the truck and our bicycles are
considered moving vehicles, and since the BB gun was modified to look like a real gun, the
crime becomes a felony. Our understanding is that they will most likely get the charges
reduced to misdemeanor counts if they plead out resulting in a fine, and or, community
service. Both went to jail Saturday and could have been released on bail. We were told that
the parents didn't post bail, though, possibly so the kids could spend the night in jail to
reflect? But, as I understand it, if they weren't out Saturday, they stay would stay through
Sunday and Monday due to the holiday. That's a long weekend in jail to reflect and maybe
be scared straight.

What's to learn? Well, I don't think kevlar riding shorts would be very practical so please
make sure if something like this happens that you report it right away. I really expected to
just have my statement taken and that's that, but the response and involvement of the
Park Rangers, the Ventura County Sheriffs, and CHP was fast and thorough, resulting in
justice. We thank them and greatly appreciate their efforts."

[OKIsItJustMe]

12. I know a retired guy who may have been shot with a BB gun

He was riding with a group in Vermont. He was going down a hill at a pretty good clip. Next thing he knew, he was "coming to" with several serious injuries. He didn't know if he'd hit a moose (or what.)

Clearly, he must have sustained a serious concussion; because, mentally, he wasn't the same for months afterward.

During the course of treatment, an X-ray revealed a little metal ball in his body which had not been there on a previous X-ray… (the conclusion seemed obvious…)

[wtmusic]

15. More and more common

This year two riders in the Tour de France were shot

http://cbs2.com/national/lance.armstrong.tour.2.1090556.html

[OKIsItJustMe]

16. I"m generally a peaceful sort…

…but that's a crime for which you should be shot (non-lethally.)

[happyslug]

25. I was punched in the arm once by a teen in a pickup

It appears he was with his father or some other older male, all I remember is the young teen, 13-15 years of age, riding in the passenger seat. This was on Broadway Avenue in Pittsburgh. Broadway Avenue was and remains a divided road of the type popular around 1900. A streetcar line in the middle and one lane of traffic on each side of the streetcar right of way. In the 1940s the City of Pittsburgh section was convented in that the Streetcar right of way was paved over so automobiles could operate on it. Thus in Pittsburgh Broadway is a wide road, with room for a Streetcar, traffic with and by the Streetcars and even Parking on the street.

The area where I was hit was in the Suburb of Dormont, just across the line from the City of Pittsburgh. Here Broadway exists for just two blocks (At which point the Streetcar continues on its own right of way) but remains as it was in 1905 when built, a Center Strip for Rail service bordered by two one way streets (In two different directions).

The border between the City and Dormont is unclear except to the home owners in the area but Pontiac Avenue is viewed by most people as the border. The Streetcar leaves the Pittsburgh portion of Broadway to take a bridge over Pontiac Avenue, while all other traffic go down each side of the Streetcar right of way to Pontiac Avenue and its stop signs. Do to the Streetcar bridge over Pontiac Avenue, you have a concrete wall as you near Pontiac Avenue on the side of the street where the streetcar goes over Pontiac Avenue. You have parking on the other side on the Dormont side (The Pittsburgh side going to Pittsburgh has no parking). It was on the Dormont side where I was hit. Narrow road, Cars in the Parking area so I could NOT go either left (Do to the Concrete wall) or Right (Do to the parked cars). This is where I was punched, not accidental but on purpose.

Now the first time I the teen who punched me was AFTER he had passed me and punched me in the arm. He had reached out to hit me. The driver did not stop, he continued driving. It was a narrow road but he had more then enough space to pass me. Both appear to be white (The teen was white, the driver I can not say, but I assume was white). I bring this up for a few years later I was punched in the right arm by a Pedestrian. This one was teen age black (Around 16 maybe younger or older). I was riding up a small hill and as I pass the two African-Americans the one nearest me reached out and punched me. I peddle to the next red-light, only 20 feet further on, looked back and decided it was NOT worth a fight so I continued on. In that case I remember the Black who had NOT punched me, he looked as shocked as I was. Could NOT believe what his buddy had done. I suspect he was glad I left the scene for I had 50 pounds on both of them. As to his buddy, who punched me to this day I do not know why, but it was in an area of long time black-white hostilities so that may be a factor.

Now I was hit in the left arm by an 1970 era Ford Ranger (The LARGE Ford Ranger based on the Full Size F-series trucks, not the later Ford Ranger based on the S-10 Pickup). I had biked to Padre Island in Corpus Christi Texas and on my way back to my sister's home the Ranger right mirror hit my left arm as he passed me on a bridge. The highways had a fairly wide berm but these ended on the bridges so it was a tight fit EXCEPT HE HAD ANOTHER LANE HE COULD HAVE OPT INTO. I do not know if he ever realized he hit me, he just kept on moving.

People can be violate to bicyclists, we have to be careful. Now, I have a growing urge to attach a camera onto my helmet, just to take videos of anyone who would punch me or hit me in the future. With SD drives, you can get a camera that has a decent lens and tape for 2-4 hours at a decent resolution (8 hours if you are willing to accept a decline in resolution, I am assuming a 4G SD card, 8G card more can provide 8 hours of video but right now 4d SD cards are relatively cheap compared to 8G and most people do NOT need more the 3-4 hours of Videos at a time if the sole purpose is to catch people after they did you harm as opposed to a permanent record of your drive). If I had such a Camera years ago when I was hit, I would have had both driver's Plate numbers and could have filed a criminal complaint other then saying an Unknown person hit me while traveling in an unknown car hit me. As to the pedestrian who hit me, the picture would have been almost useless unless someone knew whose picture I took, but as to the Car drivers their plates would give me a name to match with the picture. A Movie Camera attached to a Bicycle Helmet would provide me most of the information I need to file a complaint with the police, which is more then I could have done in the past.

[wtmusic]

14. Dan Grunig is wrong.

Police can cite anyone/anytime for "assault", whether it's out of a car window or not. And they don't have to hit their mark.

[CrispyQ]

17. I remember a DUer story back before the '04 election.

The DUer had some Kerry/liberal bumper stickers on the back of their car. Someone with a Bush/Cheney sticker pulled up beside them at a light. Both had their windows down. There was some kind of verbal exchange, the repub got pissed & threw her hamburger at the DUer. It flew threw the window & landed on the DUers front seat. Amazingly, a cop, who was behind them, saw it & pulled the repub over. :thumbsup:

It made me laugh. I can't imagine throwing anything, but being so pissed you throw your hamburger? :rofl: It's something a 4 year old would do.

[wtmusic]

22. Funny!

These are not centered, happy people.

[tinrobot]

26. Took them long enough.

Apparently, until now it was perfectly legal to throw things at cyclists and hit them.

Sheeesh!