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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 12:16 PM Original message |
Question for people who believe we can go 100% renewable |
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damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 12:27 PM Response to Original message |
1. Why bother with this question? The real issue is how renewable can we go ... |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 12:32 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. We haven't had a brownout here in quite a long time |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 10:37 PM Response to Reply #2 |
46. A distributed grid is technically superior to a centralized grid. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 10:43 PM Response to Reply #46 |
48. And solar wind geothermal wave/current/tidal biomass and storage make it work just fine |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 10:46 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. Information from Energy Genius Amory Lovins |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 02:06 AM Response to Reply #49 |
56. You mean Amory Lovins, employee of BP and Walmart? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 02:50 AM Response to Reply #56 |
59. "disparaging insinuations through an "I wonder" framing cheapen the discourse..." |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 03:54 AM Response to Reply #59 |
64. Lovins admits that he is employed by BP. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 04:58 AM Response to Reply #64 |
65. Only the sleazy part of the fission PR industry fails to recognize an honorable man |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 11:34 AM Response to Reply #65 |
66. Thanks for admitting that I'm correct. |
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madokie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 04:44 PM Response to Reply #66 |
68. You are so far out there |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 12:11 AM Response to Reply #48 |
55. That link doesn't seem to be working |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 02:55 AM Response to Reply #55 |
61. is the google also inop? |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 03:33 PM Response to Reply #1 |
17. See this report, it addresses your concerns. |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 12:32 PM Response to Original message |
3. Natural gas is usually tapped to fill in |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 12:35 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. That's not 100% renewable, though |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 03:35 PM Response to Reply #4 |
18. Your premise assumes we won't discover magic pixie dust to make it renewable |
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FBaggins (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 12:37 PM Response to Original message |
5. Hydro has some of that ability. |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 03:37 PM Response to Reply #5 |
19. Info of Makah Tribe's wave energy program |
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bigmonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 12:40 PM Response to Original message |
6. Red Herring question. |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 12:43 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. How so? |
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bigmonkey (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 02:39 PM Response to Reply #8 |
12. The implication is that if the question can't be answered now, then the option is not viable. |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 02:54 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. If we're going to push in that direction |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 05:08 PM Response to Reply #13 |
26. So it is a red herring question - thanks for admitting it. |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:01 PM Response to Reply #26 |
34. Um, not really |
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TheWraith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 02:07 AM Response to Reply #6 |
57. In other words, you have no way to answer it, so you dodge. nt |
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buddysmellgood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 12:42 PM Response to Original message |
7. For those who believe we can go 100 percent fossil, where do you propose |
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zeemike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 01:15 PM Response to Original message |
9. The ideal system is to eliminate the need for a grid. |
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Ready4Change (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 01:48 PM Response to Original message |
10. Pumped hydro. Rotational storage. Thermal storage. |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 01:53 PM Response to Reply #10 |
11. I'm not sure how much additional hydro we can add |
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Ready4Change (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 10:42 PM Response to Reply #11 |
47. Pumped hydro isn't hydropower. |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 10:53 PM Response to Reply #47 |
50. Xemasab knows the difference... |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 11:06 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. Storage is the least of our problems? |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 11:16 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. That's right - storage is the least of our problems. |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 12:08 AM Response to Reply #53 |
54. I do know how a grid works |
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kristopher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 02:15 AM Response to Reply #54 |
58. Good, then you already know at least part of the answer to the questions in the OP. |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 11:01 PM Response to Reply #47 |
51. Most of the pumped hydro proposals that I've seen |
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GliderGuider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 03:16 PM Response to Original message |
14. Lots and lots of storage. And GeniusGrid™ (twice as smart as a smart grid) |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 03:16 PM Response to Original message |
15. There are a number of ways. |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 03:52 PM Response to Reply #15 |
21. I shudder to think |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 04:05 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. Superconducting transmission cables - hardly any loss. |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 04:10 PM Response to Reply #22 |
23. That "teeny" dot |
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Confusious (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 05:36 PM Response to Reply #22 |
27. Where will you get those? |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 06:54 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. Same place as Long Island and Texas |
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Confusious (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 07:40 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. You're going to string these around the world? |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 08:31 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. ROFL |
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Confusious (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 08:53 PM Response to Reply #32 |
33. A) The freshman calc was done more then 2 years ago |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-08-11 02:39 AM Response to Reply #33 |
69. Here's the conversation from Nov 8, 2010 |
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Confusious (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-08-11 03:26 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. Boy that took you a long time, |
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Confusious (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 05:47 PM Response to Reply #21 |
29. Well, if it takes a quarter of arizona via solar |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:25 PM Response to Reply #29 |
38. Solar via photovotaic, or concentrating solar? |
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Confusious (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:44 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. Either, they both take the same amount of land |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:59 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. Concentrating uses less for watt/square foot than PV. |
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TheMadMonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:09 PM Response to Reply #15 |
35. And Africa is just supposed to lie there and take it all over again... |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 10:32 PM Response to Reply #35 |
45. GMTA |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 03:31 PM Response to Original message |
16. Here is a nice report on such questions |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 03:50 PM Response to Reply #16 |
20. It's actually a book and not a report |
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abqmufc (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 04:32 PM Response to Reply #20 |
25. Then why does author say REPORT?, and it has some flaws but it does begin to outline real steps |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 04:11 PM Response to Original message |
24. The cost of space-based solar power just dropped by a factor of ten. |
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Confusious (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 05:45 PM Response to Reply #24 |
28. so instead of quintillions. |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:22 PM Response to Reply #28 |
37. Japan expected their SBSP system to be cost competitive with fossil fuels |
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Confusious (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:48 PM Response to Reply #37 |
42. If we're still here in 2030 |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:14 PM Response to Reply #24 |
36. Why is space-based power |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:27 PM Response to Reply #36 |
39. Space based solar is FAR more efficient than inside the atmosphere. |
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Confusious (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 09:46 PM Response to Reply #39 |
41. Ahhh NO NOO NOOO |
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AtheistCrusader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-06-11 10:02 PM Response to Reply #41 |
44. Well, there are practical concerns. |
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bananas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 02:57 AM Response to Reply #44 |
62. NASA did wind-tunnel tests with birds flying in the beam - no problems. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 03:04 AM Response to Reply #44 |
63. The best plans envision very low power wide beams that people could live *in*. |
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joshcryer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 02:54 AM Response to Reply #24 |
60. It won't happen until you can manufacture the panels on the moon or an asteroid. |
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One_Life_To_Give (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-07-11 03:06 PM Response to Original message |
67. Academic at the moment |
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