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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:09 PM
Original message
5 MW Wind Turbines Headed Onshore and Off
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story;jsessionid=a11oXzVFzxea?id=43241

February 10, 2006

Hamburg, Germany One year ago this week, the world's only 5 MW wind turbine began spinning. So far, the data look good, according to REpower, and plans are underway for more deployments.

Further steps planned for this year include two 5Ms to be constructed for E.ON/Essent and the Lower Saxony energy supplier EWE at the DEWI OCC test site in Cuxhaven, where it will be possible to test offshore deployment under favorable wind conditions and obtain comparative data.

The success of a year's worth of operation of the prototype REpower 5M wind turbine in Brunsbuettel is documented with an average availability of 95.1 percent. Measured and certified performance values since operation have exceeded those calculated by the company during the development phase.

Despite extensive surveying, inspections and numerous visitors from commerce, politics and science (together with safety-related shutdowns), the prototype, with a tower height 120 meters to the hub, rotor diameter at 126 meters, rated power at 5,000 kW, has supplied around 13 million kilowatt hours (kWh) to the public grid to date.

<more>
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ooo you are so big. So absolutely huge....
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wind turbines kill endagered and protected birds
I don't think they are environmentally friendly.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. As I understand it, the latest turbine designs turn more slowly.
They aren't a threat to birds.
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SlipperySlope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. good thing!
Edited on Fri Feb-10-06 03:21 PM by SlipperySlope
If they put them offshore, what about flying fish? ;-)

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bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Ha ha - flying fish reach an altitude of about 2-3 feet above sea
level and glide for maybe up to 100 feet or so. I saw a couple near Maui when on a whale watch recently.

The blades of any wind turbine should be at least 50 from anything.

Now, does anyone know what the deal is with the wind turbines on South Point on the Big Island? They should be able to generate a lot of power. Why are they in such disrepair?

Maui is very windy - a few generators could power the whole island and probably the rest of the chain. What about possible geo-thermal from the volcano(s) on the Big Island and off its shore.
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Rabbit of Caerbannog Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Modern wind turbines kill
about 3 birds per turbine per year. Smokestacks from coal-fired power plants kill hundreds of times this many - and the effects of acid deposition on mountain and the resultant death of plant species kills additional birds and other wildlife. Cell towers, glass buildings, car windshields, and cats kill MILLIONS of songbirds. Bird kills by wind turbines is a smoke screen. Bats, however - are another issue. More research needed on bats.

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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. bird deaths due to wind farms microscopic compared to collisions with
Buildings, bridges, towers and hunters.

http://www.awea.org/faq/tutorial/wwt_environment.html#Bird%20and%20bat%20kills%20and%20other%20effects.

Causes of bird Fatalities
Number per 10,000 fatalities
Wind Turbines < 1
High tension lines 800
Buildings and Windows 5,500



No matter how extensively wind is developed in the future, bird deaths from wind energy are unlikely to ever reach as high as 1% of those from other human-related sources such as hunters, house cats, buildings, and autos. (House cats, for example, are believed to kill 1 billion birds annually in the U.S. alone.) Wind is, quite literally, a drop in the bucket. Still, areas that are commonly used by threatened or endangered bird species should be regarded as unsuitable for wind development. The wind industry is working with environmental groups, federal regulators, and other interested parties to develop methods of measuring and mitigating wind energy's effect on birds.




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dmkinsey Donating Member (789 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Wind Turbines seem like a good idea but
they're running into a buzz-saw of opposition from the NIMBY people.
Apparently wind mills are no more preferred neighbor that a conventional power plant.
I recall that the Martha's Vineyard project stalled because of local opposition.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I hope they all enjoy living in the "James Kunstler" future.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. I wonder if they offer lower cost/watt ratio?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. "Bigger is Better" seems to be the trend in wind turbines
The early attempts to build MW-scale turbines in the 70's and early '80's were fraught with problems.

The Danes started out with 25-50 kW production models...

then came 100-600 kW turbines...

followed by 1.2 MW plants...

then 3 MW gadgets...

Wonder what the max is?????
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. There doesn't appear to be one simple answer for that.
This site is educational reading. It discusses various turbine/generator design parameters, and what they mean under different conditions.

http://www.windpower.org/composite-85.htm

(the "turbine design" submenu had lots of design parameter info)
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Wind Power is the cheapest source of power today.
http://www.awea.org/pubs/factsheets/Cost2001.PDF



Fuel Levelized costs ...............(cents/kWh) (1996)
Coal..................................... 4.8-5.5 (more like 7 cents now)
Gas ..................................... 3.9-4.4(2.5 to 3 times this now)
Hydro ...................................5.1-11.3
Biomass ................................5.8-11.6
Nuclear ...............................11.1-14.5
Wind (without PTC) .................4.0-6.0
Wind (with PTC)......................3.3-5.3



The cost of natural gas has increased since 1996, so that the levelized cost of gas–
fired power plants would now be considerably higher. In January 2001, the cost of
natural gas generated power was running as high as 15 cents to 20 cents per kWh in
certain markets <3>. The cost of wind power, meanwhile, has declined slightly.
Four additional points about the economics of wind energy should be considered when
estimating its relative cost.

First, the cost of wind energy is strongly affected by average wind speed and the size
of a wind farm. Since the energy that the wind contains is a function of the cube of its
speed, small differences in average winds from site to site mean large differences in
production and, therefore, in cost. The same wind plant will, all other factors being
equal, generate electricity at a cost of 4.8 cents/kWh in 7.16 m/s (16 mph) winds, 3.6
cents/kWh at 8.08 m/s (18 mph) winds, and 2.6 cents/kWh in 9.32 m/s (20.8 mph)
winds. Larger wind farms provide economies of scale. A 3-MW wind plant generating
electricity at 5.9 cents per kWh would, all other factors being equal, generate electricity
at 3.6 cents/kWh if it were 51 MW in size.

Second, wind energy is a highly capital-intensive technology; its cost reflects the
capital required for equipment manufacturing and plant construction. This in turn means
that wind's economics are highly sensitive to the interest rate charged on that capital.
One study found that if wind plants were financed on the same terms as natural gas
plants, their cost would drop by nearly 40%.
<4>

Third, the cost of wind energy is dropping faster than the cost of conventional
generation. While the cost of a new gas plant has fallen by about one-third over the
past decade, the cost of wind has dropped by 15% with each doubling of installed
capacity worldwide, and capacity has doubled three times during the 1990s. Wind
power today costs only about one-fifth as much as in the mid-1980s, and its cost is
expected to decline by another 35-40% by 2006. <5>

Fourth, if environmental costs were included in the calculation of the costs of electricity
generation, wind energy's competitiveness would increase further because of its low
environmental impacts. Wind energy produces no emissions, so there is no damage to
the environment or public health from emissions and wastes such as are associated
with the production of electricity from conventional power plants. Wind energy is also
free of the environmental costs resulting from mining or drilling, processing, and
shipping a fuel. <6>

NOTES
1. Levelized costing calculates in current dollars all capital, fuel, and operating and maintenance costs
associated with the plant over its lifetime and divides that total cost by the estimated output in kWh over
the lifetime of the plant.
2. California Energy Commission (CEC) Energy Technology Status Report 1996. Sacramento. All CEC
estimates are in constant dollars as of 1993, with costs "levelized over a typical lifetime (usually 30
years) beginning in 2000" (p. 57). All cost estimates are for investor-owned utility (IOU) ownership.
3. Wall Street Journal, January 26, 2001, p B1.
4. Wiser, Ryan, and Edward Kahn. 1996. "Alternative Windpower Ownership Structures." LBNL-
38921. Berkeley, Calif.: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory. May.
5. Chapman, Jamie, Steven Wiese, Edgar DeMeo, and Adam Serchuk. 1998. "Expanding Wind
Power: Can Americans Afford It?" Research Report No. 6. Washington, D.C.: Renewable Energy Policy
Project.
6. State attempts to set up a process by which some of the environmental costs of electricity production,
or externalities, could be taken into account in economic calculations have focused on air emissions
alone and set externalities estimates in the range of 3-6 cents per kWh for coal and 0.5 to 2 cents for
natural gas. For a comprehensive study of environmental costs, see Richard Ottinger et al.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-10-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I was referring to...
whether or not a wind turbine's cost/watt ratio goes down as it's blade diameter increases...
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-16-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. not contradicting you, just wanted to add that info. and yes,
Wind turbines become more efficient the bigger they are - (part of that is because the taller the tower the higher the velocity of winds it picks up higher off the ground). But yes, as the diameter increases and you increase swept area the efficiency of the turbine also increases.
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