A Way to Cut Fuel Consumption That Everyone Likes, Except the Politicians

[BR_Parkway]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/16/business/16scene.html?_r=3&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1140433716-nvsh5KmUXDhOBoAq6u8zRA

SUPPOSE a politician promised to reveal the details of a simple proposal that would, if adopted, produce hundreds of billions of dollars in savings for American consumers, significant reductions in traffic congestion, major improvements in urban air quality, large reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, and substantially reduced dependence on Middle East oil. The politician also promised that the plan would require no net cash outlays from American families, no additional regulations and no expansion of the bureaucracy.

As economists often remind their students, if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. So this politician's announcement would almost surely be greeted skeptically. Yet a policy that would deliver precisely the outcomes described could be enacted by Congress tomorrow — namely, a $2-a-gallon tax on gasoline whose proceeds were refunded to American families in reduced payroll taxes.

Proposals of this sort have been advanced frequently in recent years by both liberal and conservative economists. Invariably, however, pundits are quick to dismiss these proposals as "politically unthinkable."

But if higher gasoline taxes would make everyone better off, why are they unthinkable? Part of the answer is suggested by the fate of the first serious proposal to employ gasoline taxes to reduce America's dependence on Middle East oil. The year was 1979 and the country was still reeling from the second of two oil embargoes. To encourage conservation, President Jimmy Carter proposed a steep tax on gasoline, with the proceeds to be refunded in the form of lower payroll taxes.

[flobee1]

1. There only one problem with this

Bush would enact the gas tax but not lower the payroll tax. Thats just the way this scumbag works.
He would then tout it as a sure fire way to jumpstart the economy and pay off the debt, but a year down the road, the debt is still growing, and the economy still sucks.

The tax cut on the rich needs to be rolled back
end of story

[liberal N proud]

2. This regime would take that gas tax hike but would turn around

and cut the taxes of the wealthiest 1% AGAIN.
We would just get to pay for it AGAIN.

[rfkrfk]

3. what about Kerry's 50 cent gas tax increase

people who push a lawn mower for a living are undertaxed.

tax on fuel for his wife's Gulfstream 5 business jet, no increase


................
yeah right, that'll make lots of friends

[TreasonousBastard]

4. They are politically unthinkable and...

highly impractical.

In New Jersey, there are regular calls to eliminate Turnpike nad Parkway tolls and replace the lost revenue with about a nickel a gallon gas tax.

Never mind that Joisey has the cheapest gas in the Northeast and that the net effect would most likely be good all around, every time the idea gets floated it gets shouted down by the anti-taxaholics.

Now, I understand that it's not always floated seriously since the highway authorites are mostly good for employing the useless spawn of politicians who can't otherwise find work, but that's yet another reason why it's "politically unthinkable."

And, there's no guarantee that that 2 bucks a gallon would actually be matched by other tax credits. Even it it were, that means there's little more incentive to save gas.

[rfkrfk]

5. tax on jet fuel for international flight, zero, not one effin penny

tax on jet fuel for domestic US flight,
four cents a gallon...FOUR cents

.
and some people have the nerve to say the poor
should pay more.

[WePurrsevere]

6. And how would the disabled & seniors on Social Security get this refund?

Most of us are not on a "payroll". A tax like this would make it much harder on those who are already hurting on a very limited income unless they increase our benefits which would further strain SS (unless they actually did the smart thing and removed the income ceiling and even then I'm not sure).

It might cut back the use by folks who are struggling to get by already but it also might very well force them to cut back on things like good food, heat, etc so they can pay higher prices at the pump just to get to work. How much hardship this would cause would depend on how reduced the payroll taxes would be.

If it's going to be refunded anyway I also truly doubt it will cut back most of America's use after they've had time to adapt and it certainly would not for those with money and big cars that eat gas like DUers eat cyber popcorn.

Oh and then there's the rather large amount of jobs and industry dependant upon people traveling for vacations, etc. Sorry but I don't think the problem of using fossils fuels is realistically solvable with this particular solution. We've built too big a web where so much is dependant on us being a mobile society. A better and more realistic solution is to work on getting alternative fuels and transportation that uses it cheaper and more common place to find. Following this path we could also help lower the cost of heating and cooling homes as well.

[lakeguy]

7. the gas tax is one of the most regressive taxes out there

but where will we get the money to even begin to invest in alternatives we need developed yesterday? we are already in the whole about 700 billion a year, if you include the SS surplus. gas tax on jet fuel should be hiked too, especially if you factor in the GH gas emissions it produces.

give some of the tax back to the lower income earners and use the rest to develop an infrastructure that is capable of moving people around without cars. it will hurt the lower and middle incomes and those dependent on SS. people on SS still file taxes, right? what about a credit instead of a %cut?

if we don't do something now it will hurt a helluva lot more in 5-10 years when oil could be consistently 200+ a barrel. don't think most people will be able to afford to fly or maybe even drive at that point. where will we get the money to change our current system in place then? we also can't expect to live in the burbs and drive 60 miles round trip everyday. it sucks, but every day we push it to the back burner is another day that will bring costs even greater than the day before.

a gas tax will reduce consumption as it forces people to consider mass transit as an economical alternative (if it's even there). an increase in mass transit earnings will help develop infrastructure as well. it won't happen overnight though and that's one of the problems. it will also create jobs, maybe replacing what the travel industry loses in some areas. maybe not. like i said, it won't be pretty, but we should have started this 20 years ago when Carter was in office. too bad raygun took down the solar panels.

of course, repealing bush's tax cuts for the dirty rich would help too. everyone should feel the "pain", not just us on the bottom of the scale.

[WePurrsevere]

8. No, people on SS don't always have to file taxes. It depends on how much

taxable income one makes in addition to SS. Those who are dependant soley on only SS would be hurt by this.

Perhaps a gas tax would help reduce consumption in some areas but I simply don't think it's realistic or even economically a sound idea. The majority of the country is not city or 'burbs but small towns and rural areas where getting a bus or a taxi would be impossible. If you force them to move into cities what happens to the economy of that small town? An increase in gas prices also will increase other costs as companies, farmers, etc have to pass down the increases to the consumer down the line. We live in farm country, most small farms are already struggling against the conglomerates and this type of thing could very well be their death.

You said this should have been started 20 yrs ago... actually it was started many years before that, just not pushed hard enough. 36 yrs ago, when the first Earth Day was celebrated, it was already being talked about enough that as a kid I learned about alternative and sustainable energy in school. Go back further and many scientists and even the government knew back in the 40's that there was a problem coming down the pike with gas/oil but minimum was done and what was done has been pretty much kept quiet. If you want to go back a bit further check out Tesla. He had an idea that we couldn't keep going this way for too long. It's one of the reasons he worked so hard to find other forms of energy we could use and where did all of his research go missing too after his death. What is and has been stiffled by our gov and/or big oil companies is amazing and all for the almighty dollar and power.

As for where will we get the money to invest in alternatives if not an outragious gas tax... How many much is spent on tax cuts for the rich? How much has been spent and will be spent on illegal wars we have no business fighting? How much is spent on fighting pot being legal and the criminal injustice system for this type of criminal? How much is spent in pure and STUPID PORK like a bridge to no where? I'm sure there's more but that's off the top of my head. My point is that there is plenty of money being blown away by our government over pure BS to pay for the research and probably helping every citizen in this country to switch over.

You want to find alternatives well so do I so let's concentrate on getting these fascists out of power this year and in 2008 and getting in Dems like Gore who truly care about the environment, are not totally in the oil companies back pocket and will help get us on track to an fossil fuel free country. :)