Gun control, the great sleeper issue in 08???

[virginia mountainman]

Posted in the wrong spot, now corrected!

I am well known as a supporter of the Bill of Rights, as being “all inclusive” I think there is the high potential for gun control/gun rights to explode out on to the stage, front and center in the upcoming election. There is “so far” ONE THING, to thank for this....

Washington DC and the US Supreme court.


When it accepted the Heller case, it set the wheels in motion for this to come back, and bite us, no matter what it (the Supreme Court) does in regards to “Heller”.

Our problem is, that “ALL” of our front runners, are avowed “anti-gunners”, with the exception of Bill Richardson of New Mexico, who, is not a front runner.

Both Hillary, and Obama, have never shown any support for the 2nd Amendment, Obama has even went so far as to support legislation banning handguns and ALL semi-automatics. His voting record in Illinois is 100% anti gun. Hillary's comments speak for themselves as well..

Here is very likely what will happen.......

If DC Looses Heller.....

Whom ever the candidate will be, will be be pressured by Repuke, Sara Brady and the rest of the Bradyites, to come out strongly against an activist court, and to affirm their support for “sensible gun regulations” which is well known, and exposed code-talk for incrementally ban everything.

Their will be much chest pounding about all their anti-gun positions they have taken over the years. And talk of all the “work” they have done, much moaning about the how the NRA bought and paid for it.

While, this will play well with a few urbanites, when the folks in the REST of the country, see this on the nightly news, they will have a very different point of view, than our current front runners will on this issue.....It will have a very different effect on voters in rural states..Gun Control has long proven to be “the great killer” of politicians.

This effect, in the rest of the nation is well documented....It has played a roll in every election cycle since 1994.

Now, what if DC wins Heller...(HIGHLY UNLIKELY)

Our candidates, will be asked about the ruling, and I am nearly certain, that they will PRAISE it... But make no mistake, if DC wins Heller, their will be an intense voter backlash, the likes of which have not been seen. And our current front runners, will be seen as being on the wrong side of this issue.

Remember, the Supreme court will issue a ruling before election day... This could have a disastrous effect. It would energize our opponents currently disgusted base, and turn them into “avengers” at the polls. Not to mention what it would do to moderates, witch tend to be a very pro-2nd group as well.

Currently the winds are blowing strongly our way, I hope somehow we can keep it this way. The voters are just now starting to give us a second chance on the issue, for example, in the past election cycle, we had Pro-gun Democrats replacing Republicans. Both the congress, and Senate are more pro-gun than they ever were.

This is a trend that must be maintained. We cannot allow a few loose comments on the nightly news, cost us dearly all over the nation.

[Fearless]

1. How about social security, abortion, and gay rights...

they're all in the same boat now... just economy and war, perhaps justifiably.

[comradebillyboy]

2. We like our guns, that is I and more than 100,000,000

Americans. Gun control is a losing issue and the Democrats would be wise to steer clear. In new Mexico Bill Richardson even won the NRA's endorsement in his last two campaigns for governor. LOTS OF DEMOCRATS ARE GUN OWNERS and enjoy shooting sports.

I don't trust the police to protect me, my family, my property or my rights. I don't trust the police at all. But I have the absolute right to defend myself and my home. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

[AndyTiedye]

5. Trouble Is, Guns are a Losing Issue for Us No Matter What We Do

It's the gift that keeps on giving votes to the Republicans, and always will, no matter what sort of stance our candidates take on the issue.

Granted, both of our current frontrunners would be particularly effective in getting out the pro-gun vote against them.
That is the least of the problems either of them would have in the general election.

[benEzra]

7. It wasn't in '06...

The Senate was turned blue in Nov. '06 by pro-gun, anti-AWB Dems who beat pro-gun repubs in red states. Jim Webb, Jon Tester, Bob Casey. Ted Strickland (anti-AWB Dem) won handily in Ohio, etc. etc.

It's not that hard to get the gun issue off the table, IMO--just stop trying to further restrict lawful gun ownership. The gun-control fundamentalists won't leave it alone, though; it's like bans on nonhunting guns/the AWB are the most important issue, voter alienation be damned.

[virginia mountainman]

12. True,

The key here is "GENUINE", For example, John Kerry's 100% voting record against gun ownership, he never ONCE voted in support of gun owners rights...

And yet, the gun owners where supposed to believe his sudden "transformation" because he went on a staged goose hunt wielding a "straw purchased" shotgun that he just recently voted to ban?????

Most candidates, democrat or rethug, that have histories of supporting gun control, WILL, have issues when they try to paint themselves as pro-gun.

Just ask "gooliany"

It is much easier to be considered a pro gun candidate, when your record, and actions backs up your promises.

[AndyTiedye]

13. We Just Have to Hope that People Care About their Other Freedoms As Much as Their Guns

We're not going to get the single-issue gun voters. Write them off, at least this year.

[SteveM]

14. I think the anti-Dem vote could be ameliorated by Democratic "change"...

The challenge is how to talk to our candidates about the Second Amendment. Frankly, I don't know how to do this. For one, most candidates are reticent to speak out on specific policies. For another, the Internet is not a very good place to organize a "movement." Certainly, one can establish a site for a cause, but how does this translate to a viable force which candidates will listen to? This problem is exacerbated by the "newness" of lefties who advocate for 2A. Here, we know that there has always been a sizable pro-2A presence among lefties; but to others we are a novelty. And a presence is not a pressure group.

I also believe that being anti-gun is a kind of cultural red badge of courage identifying one as a "real" liberal or progressive who truly believes in passivity and extensive government protection of the people through law enforcement. If you are in a crowd of most liberals (as I have been) and you are identified as pro-2A, a chill will fall over the crowd; not so much caused by the anti-gunners, but by the frame the anti-gunners have given to those defending the Second. I have had folks come up to me at such gatherings and say that they support 2A and disagree with the AWB, but it's always quietly, off to one side, like folks who whisper to an activist that the War on Drugs, Inc., should end, but...

A strategy of how to unite pro-2A folks at DU, Progunprogressive, American Gun Culture Report, etc. into a "single" body with a clearly-expressed message to educate our candidates is sorely needed. We should talk about that on this forum.

[tularetom]

3. I don't get it - do you want the Dems to lose because you perceive them

as "anti-gun"?

I believe there is a far greater chance that, if confiscation of firearms ever takes place in this country, it will be under an authoritarian right wing administration, not during a period of Democratic control.

I'm a firm believer in the 2nd amendment (actually I support all the amendments) and the owner of more than a few guns. And I kinda don't believe I need a bunch of asswipes like the NRA to stand up for me. They'd sell out their members in a heartbeat if the repub homeland security people put the screws on them.

[madrchsod]

4. obama`s stance on gun control

has to do with the weapons that are sold to gangs and other thugs. i doubt he has a big concern about legally obtained fire arms
if the supreme court rules against gun owners it was the right wing court that did it not the a liberal one.

[virginia mountainman]

6. Uhhh

He has come out in support of a complete ban on Semi-Automatics.....

I am not a thug, nor a gang member....I own several Semi-auto's

I would bet that the vast majority of gun owners, own at least one Semi auto...

I bet they would be mighty pissed if they where banned or even a ATTEMPT to ban them.

In 1994, the voters tossed us out of the congress OVER, a PARTIAL ban, that expired in 10 years, and was so full of holes that in the end, it did NOTHING.

Except for pissing off the electorate for about 12 years.

[benEzra]

8. No, he's called for outlawing the most popular civilian target rifles...

and defensive carbines in America. He would do well to renounce that position, IMO, or else even if he wins, he may end up pulling another 1994.

The DLC did the party a great disservice in the '90s when it adopted the repubs' "assault weapon" bait-and-switch in order to appeal to right-leaning law-and-order types, methinks. Personally, I'd call the DLC's ban-popular-guns crusade the single greatest miscalculation in Democratic Party strategy in the last two decades.

----------------------
Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)

The Conservative Roots of U.S. Gun Control

[Hangingon]

10. He can renounce all day long....

few gun owners will believe him. Most gun owners have a deep distrust of the front runners.

[virginia mountainman]

11. Ben I would call..

Support of HR 1022 and the, complete ban of handguns, a total ban on Semi-Automatics...

With language like "any piece that can function as a hand grip" and other such vagueness how could it be veiwed anyother way?

[SteveM]

15. Yet, he goes unchallenged by potential supporters...

I have sent e-mails to Obama, Edwards, etc., trying to explain to them that there are a lot of folks out there who might vote for them if they would get educated and change their views. All I get is a bunch of generic requests for money.

I know there is a style problem for anyone in this culture who admits they were wrong and now they've changed (see Romney, Giulliani, etc.); but style is merely dicey while philosophy is a sinkhole.

How can we organize to become a force Democratic candidates will listen to?

[jmg257]

9. He also supports complete bans on handguns too - screw him. I like the ability

and the means to enjoy my right of self-defense.