Emerging details on the shooter

[gorfle]

From CNN:

" A preliminary investigation has not uncovered a police record on the gunman, and records showed he had no contact with university police while a student there, Peters said.

"There's no indication that there was any trouble," Peters said."

"A spokesman for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said that two of the weapons were legally purchased February 9 from a dealer in Champaign. The bureau was still tracing the other two weapons used in the attack."

Looks like he passed a background check on February 9th.

[Ano Genitus]

1. I'm not sure I understand.

If he passed a background check, he should have been stable enough to own a gun. A background check would surely have turned up any hints of madness.

[tyne]

2. I'll bet

he was on anti-depressants.

[Richard D]

4. I was just going to say that.

Or Ritalin.

[slackmaster]

9. Nope, diabetic and off his meds

:argh:

[gorfle]

11. Not him....

CNN says it was his father who claims to be diabetic - haven't seen anything to say the shooter was.

[gorfle]

12. More details (CNN)

Kazmierczak had no arrest record and no known history of mental illness, and he did have a valid state-required firearm ID card, so he had no problem buying the guns, one law enforcement source said.

[gorfle]

3. Not always.

If he passed a background check, he should have been stable enough to own a gun. A background check would surely have turned up any hints of madness.

First of all, if he never committed a criminal act or received mental health services, he'd never show up as a threat.

Secondly, as I understand it there is a lack of uniformity in the data that is presented by the States to the Federal government's NICS system. Sometimes mental health information doesn't get into the system (and it should). I believe this was the case in the VT shootings.

[mike_c]

5. in other words, background checks are not an effective way...

...to keep guns out of the hands of people likely to use them to commit crimes unless those folks have ALREADY committed crimes.

[dmallind]

6. Or have been adjudged mentally defective

but yes that's true. What kind of check could possibly with any kind of reliability predict future actions?

[ac2007]

8. Even on anti-depressants, he would pass a background check

Even if this psycho was on anti-depressants, it would not prevent him from passing a NICS check. Private medical records ARE NOT subject to NICS. Only if you are adjudicated a mental defective by the State in a hearing is that placed into NICS.

There is a common misconception that if you are being treated for any mental problem that you are automatically barred from owning a gun. It is not the case. In fact, the idea of allowing the government access to private medical records was a big deal in any action to enhance or modify NICS. The concern and it was a valid one of allowing a government bureaucracy the right to examine private information to make determination on curtailing your rights in absence of due process.

Private medical records are exactly that: private. A person voluntarily seeking treatment for any real or perceived mental issues should not be required to forfeit their rights. It is hoped and expected that such folks will take their own condition into mind in the decision to purchase a firearm and sometimes, like this one, they will make the wrong decision or simply not care.

Background checks are only effective as a screening tool and to act as a deterrent to the known criminal or denied citizen from obtaining guns through LEGAL means. There is nothing stopping them from acquiring guns through illegal means.

Honestly, there is nothing we can do with the system we have to stop these types of crimes. No matter what checks, hoops and difficulty you place in front of a lawful gun purchase, people with evil intent will always slip through. There is no perfect system that will wholly prevent criminal misuse of firearms and balance the rights of the 99.7% of the citizenry who never does anything wrong with them.

[Critters2]

17. Inpatient treatment centers are required to report in Illinois.

He could not have legally purchased guns.

[krispos42]

10. It is to an extent

It's not just criminal record, it's restraining orders and being involuntarily committed for mental problems.

But it is dependent on the states keeping the feds informed. In Virginia last year the Virginia authorities didn't tell the feds about Cho's mental problems because it may have violated medical-privacy laws.



There is also the ability of people in most states (I think Illinois is an exception) to buy guns privately from one person to another. In other words, if you wanted to buy a gun that I owned, I could sell it to you the same way I could sell you my TV set or computer or piece of furniture.

It's commonly hyped (incorrectly) as the "gun show loophole". If you buy from a licensed federal gun dealer, the licenced dealer must perform the NICS background check on you. If you're buying from a private seller, the check cannot be done because you need to be a licenced dealer to access the NICS system.

Of course, unless you are a career criminal with connections to black-market gun dealers, it's a lot harder to find someone selling a gun. You have to know somebody selling, look for somebody selling in a newspaper or online, or try to find a private seller at a gun show. And the variety of guns available is often limited.


It sounds like what happened here was the rare case of a totally clean person going off the deep end.

The people most likely to commit crimes are those that have committed crimes before. Over 80% of the guns used in crime are from either theft or friends and family.

[Critters2]

19. Even voluntary psych treatment is supposed to make it impossible

to own a gun in Illinois. I can't own a gun because I've been hospitalized for depression. I signed a document at the time of my hospitalization saying I understood that I would never be able to legally purchase a firearm, and that my hospitalization would be reported to the authorities.

Which is why I get scared by all the gun crazies who want more people to own more guns. I'm a sitting duck!!

Another reason to move to Canada.

[SteveM]

14. What are your suggestions/proposals/legal initiatives?

[Critters2]

16. He did receive mental health services.

He was inpatient for nearly a year. This disqualified him from owning a gun in Illinois. So, the question is "Why was he allowed to purchase them illegally?".

[benEzra]

7. Illinois is one of the few states that actually requires a license (FOID) to own guns.

Illinois also has full gun registration, under the guise of a "safety inspection" (the only thing "inspected" is the serial number, which is recorded).

Some states have been slack about getting mental health records into NICS, though; I don't know how Illinois is on that.

[enfield collector]

13. I'm seeing a pattern with all these shootings, it's apparant to me that the

only thing that would have prevented or mitigated this tragedy is a good person on scene with a weapon to take this guy out.

[SteveM]

15. Another pattern: always in "Gun-Free Zones"

[Critters2]

18. Bullshit. He purchased these guns illgeally,

The laws to prevent this are in place, but were not complied with. This should and could have been prevented well before Thursday, if the law had been obeyed.