On Sheep, Sheepdogs, and Wolves

[sabre73]

By Dave Grossman.

Thank you NewMoonTherian for finding this link for us! and Welcome to DU!

http://home.columbus.rr.com/larryb/on%20sheep.htm

Here are some excerpts from the article.

("Most of the people in our society are sheep.They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another.)

("Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there that will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.)

("Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."...)

Read the article and see what you think. I find it inspiring. I hope all of you do as well!

Thanks again NewMoonTherian!:toast: :hi:

(Edited for clarity)

[cornermouse]

1. Sheep dogs don't protect the flock.

They only herd them where the people want the sheep to go. Guard dogs (Pyrenees, Anatolian Shepherds, Akbash, Kuvasz, etc.) guard the flocks. Let's call them the police...

[sabre73]

2. good to see you got the point

all the while managing to avoid getting hung up on minor semantics. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[cornermouse]

3. I see you didn't get the point.

If you're going to call yourself a sheepdog, then all you're doing is herding the so-called sheep. Sheep being an insult and something of a mislabel, itself.

The police, let's call them the livestock guardian dogs, are or should be considered professionals with guns. Sheepdogs, let's call them the Walter Mitty crowd, are not.

Let's return to the insult where you call people sheep. If that's what floats your boat go ahead and think it. I can't stop you from being wrong.

[NewMoonTherian]

5. I don't think it's meant to be an insult.

It just defines people based on their mindset toward the threat of violence. At any rate, it presents some good points if you can get past the condescending(to some) tone.

[cornermouse]

6. I must have the wrong mindset, then.

And yes, I thought it was condescending.

[sabre73]

20. I realize that you found

it condescending; but you seem to think that I wrote this article. I didn't. And I realize that some people don't like being labeled as anything.. I am not. I was just posting and article that leaves some people thinking. I know that "thinking" is a threatening concept to some people but I doubt that you are one of "those" people.

So please, don't go on about:

"Let's return to the insult where you call people sheep. If that's what floats your boat go ahead and think it. I can't stop you from being wrong." I did not call anyone "sheep" nor does childish name calling float my boat. Furthermore, this article has nothing to do with "I'm right and you are wrong."

So get over it and try to open your mind to the point of the article not the semantics.

P.S. I find your post here condescending too. So I guess we are even....:spank:

[cornermouse]

22. You clearly agree with the article...enthusiastically.

You linked to it and made it clear that you endorsed its world view.

I'm a fighter; always have been. If you insult me whether directly or via proxy, you should plan to duck.

[sabre73]

23. I need not advertise that I

am a fighter. Take your swing..... It will be the last thing you do before you hit the floor.

If you knew anything then you would know that I was posting this article at the request of another du member who wanted to read the article. I don't know where you came up with "enthusiastically endorse" since all I said was:

"Read the article and see what you think. I find it inspiring. I hope all of you do as well!"

Your idea of enthusiastic and mine are completely different I guess. I would have to had said that this was a "definitive work", or this is the "gospel truth", or it is the "end all" of all articles to "enthusiastically" endorse it.

If you were really a "fighter" I doubt you would have cried as much as you did about it. Just because you have a log on id for this site does not make you a scrapper in any way....Drama Queen.

[cornermouse]

27. When I said fighter, I meant that just because I don't carry a gun

with me at all times doesn't mean I would be cowering under a table as the article implied and as you seem to want to think. I didn't mean that I was going to punch your lights out, although... Nah. And if you ever hit me, I guarantee you it would not look good and you would be arrested, Walter.

[sabre73]

28. Well, now I am confused......

You told be that: "I'm a fighter; always have been. If you insult me whether directly or via proxy, you should plan to duck." How does that spell out that you are NOT threatening to "punch my lights out"?

Then you say that I am threatening you.....Hmm. Oh that is right. You must be from the Association of Double Standards (A.D.S.)... You can threaten me (which is exactly what you did) but I can't warn you that I will lay you out if you try. Then you tell me that I will be arrested?!?!? LOL :rofl:

Lastly you close your post with the name "Walter". Is that your name or are referring to me as what you labeled the "Walter Mitty crowd"? If that is so then I would have to ask you am I apart of the group you called "the livestock guardian dogs" or am I apart of the "Walter Mitty crowd"? Because if it is both then I will have to say that they are "Sheepdogs" and no other group.

I am pretty sure that in ANY state if you were to attack me first and I laid you down then any arrest would only be followed by the charges pressed against you.

And for the record (mouse who hides in a corner) I don't take my gun with me "everywhere" either. I do, however, have several means of protecting my family almost as well. So, please, continue to think that you are on the Moral high ground with this. "If that's what floats your boat go ahead and think it. I can't stop you from being wrong."

I could not have said it better myself.

[cornermouse]

30. Cornermouse is because I usually just sit quietly in a corner and

observe people. I repeat hit me and you go to jail. That's a fact.

[sabre73]

31. I repeat...Attack me first then

you will get hit...Then YOU go to jail. THAT is a FACT! Just because your way of life is all about double standers does not mean that YOU will not be held accountable for YOUR actions.

[bossy22]

7. i am a professional concert lighting engineer

i also own guns- does that make me a professional with a gun?

though i think im stretching the word professional to fit my skill level

[cornermouse]

8. Not if that's the only thing on your resume'.

[bossy22]

9. so what makes someone

a professional with a gun?

maybe i should add that i go to the range on a regular bases (once a week) and am proficient in all of my firearms- i could take em apart and put them back together with my eyes blindfolded

[sabre73]

11. I would definitely consider myself

a professional "gunman" as it were. But that is because I get paid to do just that. I teach and practice firearms as a large part of my job.

However, I would sooner trust you, bossy22, to come to my rescue with your sidearm then a lot of the Agents and Police officers I have worked with over the years who consider themselves "professionals."

I say give me a CCW who makes a conscious decision to learn how their guns function and deliberately goes to the range on a weekly (or even once every month for that matter) to hone their skills.

So I don't know if you consider yourself a professional but know that this "professional" would trust you much sooner than he would a lot of his brothers and sisters in Law Enforcement.

That is just my experience as a CCW and LEO so take it for what you will. Here is to you!:toast:

[bossy22]

14. why thank you

but i have to say that im not pistol proficient yet- im still working on getting my NYS pistol permit but my rifles im pretty good with- except the M1 garand...it kinda bangs me around

but thanks for your vote of confidence sir

:toast:

[sabre73]

18. I have a mil spec

.308 that I prefer over all of my guns. It is the Remington 700SS R5 Mil-spec. I would post a pic but I am not that proficient with this board yet... If you know how I would be grateful for the help. If not well I will figure it out here.

[bossy22]

19. im unsure of how to

post a pic that is in a non-internet link format

my favorite gun above all else is my RRA AR-15 in .223....then comes my trusty M1 carbine

[sabre73]

21. Here is the link to my .308 rifle

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=347375877&albumID=0&imageID=372133

With this rifle I am shooting sub MOA (.42) at 100 yards using my own load with spear 168 grain match bullets. If I use Federal Gold Match 168 I will still shoot .50 @100y.

I managed a 628 yard head shot on a doe this last hunting season with this rifle too.

Anyhow, thought I would share!

[sabre73]

24. never mind the link does not work sorry. nt

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. Ummm - " insult where you call people sheep" - sabre73 was quoting the article

.
.
.

Your comments should be directed toward the author of the article methinks.

And an apology to sabre73.

Just suggesting . .

[ConcernedCanuk]

4. I read, and saved the whole article. It does leave one with an impact.

.
.
.
And then I read it again, slowly.

Thanks.

[sabre73]

13. Thanks!

I am glad you saved it. It does make you think. Especially since being a sheepdogs today does not make you one tomorrow. It is a decision we have to make every day.

[spin]

10. Sheep hate and fear wolves ...

but they aren't real fond of sheepdogs either.

[sabre73]

12. That is exactly what

it says in the article. They don't like the sheepdogs......until the Wolves arrive.

[east texas lib]

15. Life,as always,is full of choices...

My father chose the path of the wolf. A very violent wolf. He is still in prison in
Oklahoma doing life on a career criminal beef. I chose a different path. The honest
one. But because of where we lived(due to economic situations at the time) and what
my family experienced there, I learned the very hard lesson that sometimes the bad
guys must be confronted and vanquished. And sometimes that requires the use of a
firearm. I guess it depends on how much that you, as an individual, value the lives
of your loved ones or yourself. Perhaps some people trust in the Hereafter. I just
happen to trust in my own will to survive and Sam Colt a little more than I do the
Hereafter.

[sabre73]

17. Very true. And good for you!

I to was raised by a father who was a career criminal of a violent nature until he died of a cocaine overdose when I was 11. He taught me a lot of good life lessons though.

He taught me what not to be in life (though that was not his intention).

He taught me that if I was going to survive in life I was ultimately on my own.

He taught me how he picked his victims. He taught me about observing people's body language to determine if they were an easy mark or if they were fixing to cause you harm etc.

Most of all he taught me to never give way to someone like him. Because if I did then they would always come back for more until I had nothing to offer and then what good would I be alive?

I know they day I graduated my first LEO academy he was rolling over in his grave. There was no one more hated by may father than a "PiG." But I wear the label with pride... Pride... Integrity....Guts...

Not so bad a name after all.

Your family is blessed to have someone who learned the right things in such an environment.

Keep fighting the good fight!:freak:

[Lex Talionis]

25. Good post.. But around here the sheep rule...

Long ago an old man told me "Their are three types of people in this world. Sheep, wolves and wolf dogs. which are you, boy?" Never forgot it and never have been a sheep. The sheep though see no difference in the wolf or dog. Both have sharp teeth and both know how to kill sheep. So the sheep fears one just as much as thee other. (In your other post I read) Spot on about LEO's in this world, don't trust them much either as some are just wolves. To find kindred spirits on this site is mighty inspiring indeed, sabre73. Go slow though the rabid sheep will gang up on ya.:)

[Redneck Socialist]

26. Of stupid analogies... n/t

[sabre73]

29. Thank you for your Profound input... N/T