an Assault weapon lie?

[bossy22]

according to the VPC an assault weapon is :

Civilian assault weapons are semiautomatic versions of military weapons designed to
rapidly lay down a wide field of fire—often called “hosing down” an area.
Military and civilian assault weapons share key design features. These features were
specifically developed so that relatively unskilled conscripted soldiers could inflict
maximum casualties despite their poor marksmanship. The most important of these are:
! The ability to accept high-capacity magazines, capable of holding from 10
to more than 100 rounds of ammunition.
! Features that make it easy to simply point (as opposed to carefully aim) the
gun while rapidly pulling the trigger. These include pistol grips—or
magazines that function as pistol grips—on the fore end of the gun, and
-2-
barrel shrouds, ventilated tubes that surround the otherwise too-hot-to-hold
barrel, providing an area that is cool enough to be directly grasped by the
shooter even after scores of rounds have been fired.
Taken together, these features make it possible for the shooter of an assault weapon to
quickly “hose down” a relatively wide area with a lethal spray of bullets. This increased
lethality makes semiautomatic assault weapons particularly dangerous in civilian use.
It explains why mass murderers, cop killers, and other violent criminals prefer them. It
also distinguishes them from true hunting or target guns.

If what they say is true- and assault weapons are mainly desigend to "spray an area with bullets" why do police departments now have them (AR-15's) as their standard rifle. I can think of almost no scenario on our streets that would require the police to hose down an area with bullets- think of all the innocent people that could be killed?

perhaps the VPC is lying?

[Vincardog]

1. There are two problems with this argument #1 that ability to “hose down” down not have to be the

sole use of #2 Our right to keep and bear arms has nothing to do with true hunting or target guns;
it was specifically included so we the people could resist (With arms if necessary) ANY unlawful actions of our Government.

This right includes all arms but by no means includes such preposterous suggestions as we should all have tactical Nuclear suitcase bombs or WMD.

Those are not weapons of resistance they are weapons of TERROR.

[johnbraun]

2. I find it disturbing how many DEMS here will shill for a REPUBLICAN organization.

It's sickening. The VPC is a Rethug organization tailor-made to hamstring Dems with failed anti-gun policies.

[jody]

5. BO was a board member for the Joyce Foundation that funds VPC. n/t

[benEzra]

3. 20 years of BS...

Civilian assault weapons are semiautomatic versions of military weapons designed to rapidly lay down a wide field of fire—often called “hosing down” an area.

Actually, non-automatic civilian versions of military weapons designed for hosing down areas are exceedingly rare. For example, there is no popular civilian gun that is a semiauto-only version of an M249 or an M60, although there may be a few low-volume units made for collectors. I've seen ads for a semiauto lookalike of a WW1 tripod-mounted .30-06 belt-fed, but it was like $2500 and was aimed at collectors and reenactors, and is irrelevant to the "assault weapon" bait-and-switch. The closest thing I've ever seen in person would be a non-automatic civilian AK dressed up to look like an RPK--again, something quite rare and aimed specifically at collectors.

There's also that pesky little detail that the #1 requirement for being able to "hose down" an area is THE CAPABILITY OF AUTOMATIC FIRE. All NFA Title 1 civilian firearms are non-automatic and are designed to be difficult to convert to full auto.

The ability to accept high-capacity magazines, capable of holding from 10
to more than 100 rounds of ammunition.

Over-10-round civilian guns hit the market in the early 1860's. Contrary to VPC agitprop, post-1861 magazine capacities were not developed to "hose down areas." Your local police officer carries an over-10-round pistol on her hip, and it's not because her department wants her to be able to "hose down" the neighborhood, but simply because 10 rounds is an unrealistically low capacity for a full-size defensive sidearm. Ditto for non-automatic police patrol carbines with standard 20- or -30-round magazines; those are issued as a safer and more precise alternative to the traditional patrol shotgun, NOT as an area weapon..

I also note that the VPC isn't trying to outlaw 100-round magazines so much as they are trying to outlaw ordinary 15 to 30 round magazines, or otherwise they'd be pushing for a 31- or 41-round limit instead of a ridiculous 10-round limit.

Features that make it easy to simply point (as opposed to carefully aim) the gun while rapidly pulling the trigger. These include pistol grips—or magazines that function as pistol grips—on the fore end of the gun, and barrel shrouds, ventilated tubes that surround the otherwise too-hot-to-hold barrel, providing an area that is cool enough to be directly grasped by the shooter even after scores of rounds have been fired.

Civilian rifles are designed to be carefully aimed; look at the sights, and the fact that these rifles typically have pistol grip shoulder stocks (which make it more difficult to shoot from the hip). You want to look at a gun designed for pointing, look at a shotgun with a bead front sight, not an AR-15 designed for 1-arcminute precision shooting.

If small-caliber rifles were designed for point shooting, then explain the popularity of flattop receivers and optics rails, which are made specifically for better aiming.

Taken together, these features make it possible for the shooter of an assault weapon to quickly “hose down” a relatively wide area with a lethal spray of bullets. This increased lethality makes semiautomatic assault weapons particularly dangerous in civilian use.

Yup, rapidly unloading your gun at nothing in particular is SO much more dangerous than precision aimed fire from the same gun... :eyes:

It explains why mass murderers, cop killers, and other violent criminals prefer them.

They must be using a wierd definition of the word "prefer." All rifles COMBINED accounted for only half as many murders in 2006 as shoes and bare hands, and only a small fraction of the number committed with knives and clubs.

Taking Illinois (home of violence-plagued Chicago, and currently fighting to ban protruding rifle handgrips) as a case in point:

Total murders...............................487.....100.00%
Handguns....................................380......78.00%
Edged weapons................................46.......9.45%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged).......35.......7.19%
Hands, fists, feet, etc......................14.......2.87%
Shotguns......................................6.......1.23%
Rifles........................................4.......0.82%
Firearms (type unknown).......................2.......0.41%

National stats (2006):

Total murders............................14,990.....100.00%
Handguns..................................7,795......52.00%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged)....2,158......14.40%
Edged weapons.............................1,822......12.15%
Firearms (type unknown)...................1,465.......9.77%
Hands, fists, feet, etc.....................833.......5.56%
Shotguns....................................481.......3.21%
Rifles......................................436.......2.91%

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_20.html

And that's for all rifles combined, not just small-caliber rifles with modern styling. Rifles aren't a crime problem in the United States and never have been.

Nor are "assault weapons" particularly represented in mass shootings, unless you conveniently ignore all the mass shootings committed with handguns, shotguns or conventional-looking rifles.

It also distinguishes them from true hunting or target guns.

So, they're saying that the most popular civilian target rifle in America is not a "true target gun"? That's pretty funny. The AR-15 dominates centerfire rifle shooting in this country. If it's not a "true target gun," what is, pray tell?



And if an AR-15's resemblance to a functionally quite different M16 bars the AR from being a "true hunting gun," then what do you do with a Remington M700 that is functionally identical to an M24/M40 bolt-action sniper rifle?



If a Winchester Model 70, which was developed from military Mausers designed to kill human beings at extreme ranges, which is chambered for antipersonnel cartridges like .308/7.62x51mm NATO, .30-30 Winchester, and .30-06 Springfield, and which was the U.S. Army's premier sniper rifle in Vietnam, is a "true hunting gun," why isn't a Rock River Arms LAR-15 in 6.5mm Grendel--which has far less military heritage than the Winchester--also a "true hunting gun"?

The "assault weapon" bait-and-switch is BS designed to scare the gullible. It is an attempt to make sweeping bans on the most popular civilian rifles in America sound "reasonable" to those who know little about guns, gun law, or criminal gun misuse.

More Americans lawfully and responsibly own "assault weapons" than hunt. The meme is merely an attempt to make sweeping new restrictions on lawful ownership sound reasonable, and has nothing to do with truth--or with criminal violence, for that matter.

[SteveM]

8. Uh-oh, watch out for that pink gun! (nt)

[benEzra]

9. LOL, didn't think of that...

I'll have to crosspost the pic into the "OMG!!! colored GUNS!!!" thread.

[enfield collector]

17. I have a semi-auto 1919 BMG, it weighs about 35# without the tripod

theoretically you could link as much ammo into a belt as you wanted, but lets face it with 308 about 60c a round it gets expensive.

[jody]

4. "perhaps the VPC is lying?" Ask BO, he was a board member of Joyce Foundation that funds VPC. n/t

[Turbo Teg]

6. reasoning with stupid people

is extremely tiring.

[Tejas]

11. Credit where credit is due

Some of them are smarter than you think, they act and speak like sheeple only so they acn blend in as a common anti, even to the point of acting clueless to ensure the success of their ruse.

Much easier to further their anti-BOR agenda that way.

[krispos42]

7. Yup, it's bullshit

This is the press release that keeps showing up over and over again. Some reporter will contact the Brady people and get that load of tripe to publish essentially verbatum in the newspaper.

Take a gander...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=132832#132864

[benEzra]

10. Some more silly statements...

that were so over-the-top that I bookmarked them at the time. This is from 2004, IIRC; the link is now dead, but you can still find the full text in places around the 'net.

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,571186,00.html

Boston, MA - At a press conference today John Rosenthal, Chair and Co-founder of Stop Handgun Violence, along with State Senator Jarrett Barrios, State Representative David Linsky, Boston Police Superintendent Paul Joyce and Director of Federal Legislation for the Brady Campaign, Tony Orza unveiled America's largest billboard, depicting a 150' X 30' AK-47 assault rifle and stating that this gun will be "Coming to a Home Near You" unless action is taken to renew the State and Federal Assault Weapon Bans....

"Assault weapons are truly weapons of mass destruction whose only purpose is to kill as many people as possible without having to stop and reload. Twenty percent of police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with these weapons which are designed to penetrate police body armor from more than 1000 yards. That's why every major police organization in the nation supports extending the ban," stated John Rosenthal.

That's the same John Rosenthal (founder of SHV) who helped launch the AHSA front group, BTW.

FWIW, just for giggles, here are the stats on a round from my "AK" at 1000 yards...

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/cgi-bin/jbmtraj.cgi


Range.....Drop...Velocity.....Mach......Energy.....Time of
(yds).....(in)....(ft/s)...............(ft•lbs).....Flight

0.........-3.8.....2350.0.....2.093....1495.8......0.000 sec
100........2.0.....2033.9.....1.811....1120.4......0.137 sec
200.......-0.7.....1744.8.....1.554.....824.6......0.297 sec
300......-14.9.....1488.7.....1.326.....600.3......0.483 sec
400......-44.9.....1275.5.....1.136.....440.6......0.701 sec
500......-96.4.....1117.8.....0.995.....338.4......0.953 sec
600.....-175.6.....1014.4.....0.903.....278.7......1.236 sec
700.....-288.5......941.9.....0.839.....240.3......1.543 sec
800.....-440.7......884.5.....0.788.....211.9......1.873 sec
900.....-637.4......835.8.....0.744.....189.2......2.222 sec
1000....-884.1......792.8.....0.706.....170.2......2.592 sec

Aside from the "20 percent" fabrication, the 1000-yard claim is asinine. At 1000 yards, an AK round is vastly outclassed by even .38 Special ballistics, which won't even penetrate NIJ Level IIA body armor (never mind full level II or IIIA) and is traveling 300 fps slower than a round from a .22. Not to mention that pesky little detail of having to deal with 73 FEET of bullet drop, a slow-as-molasses 2.6-second time of flight (wind? movement? hello?), and the transonic transition that blows your trajectory all to heck at less than 500 yards. (And no, .223 won't do it either.)

"Designed to penetrate police body armor from 1000 yards away"? Yup. And my car goes 350 mph and gets 200 miles per gallon.

I thought it was also funny that he said the most popular target rifles in the nation have no other purpose than mass murder (hello?), and that small-caliber non-automatic civilian rifles are "WMD's". Yup, there's a gun expert all right...

:rofl:

[bossy22]

13. and he claims

to be a gun owner......how can some gun owner be so oblvious to ballistics

[-Wolverine-]

12. Far fetched

The VPC certainly lies, or at least stretches the truth.

I simply dismiss anyone's understanding of gun control if they state that "assault weapons need to be banned". Anyone who does so knows nothing of what they talk about.

[Deep13]

14. "Assault weapon" is a vague term that can mean anything.

Basically, I find that it is any firearm that does not look the way city residents think a deer rifle should look like.

I bought a Beretta carbine for the rifle range (still waiting for the snow to thaw). It was never intended to be a military weapon. It's mostly "polymer" (a relatively tough plastic) and could never survive battle conditions. Plus it shoots pistol bullets which are far less powerful than say M16 rounds. Unlike some civilian approved army rifles, there is no way to turn it into a machine gun, because it was never designed for that purpose. Rifles are hardly ever used in crimes, especially $800 Italian designer carbines. And this is very low power for a rifle. Nevertheless, it is black, has a near vertical grip, can accept a mounted flashlight and accepts 15 rd. pistol magazines. There is no way it would escape being labeled an assault weapon.

What really got me laughing about the 1994-2004 ban was the prohibition on bayonets. After all, we don't want any World War One veterans knocking over a liquor store.

[Lasher]

15. I've gotta Browning BAR II safari .30-06

Looks likea deer thingy so it couldn't be an assault weapon, right?

[Deep13]

16. I see pistol grip, flash suppressor, auto-loader w/ detachable magazine.

Could be, but I think it would be collateral damage and not the main target of a ban. The magazine is low capacity, so that might let it escape.

Looks like a deer thingy because it is a deer thingy. Or boar. Or black bear. Or coyotes.

[BadgerLaw2010]

19. Nah, armor-piercing, anti-material rifle.

[-Wolverine-]

18. Cosmetic

The definition of "assault weapon" is purely cosmetic.
I bought a 10/22 last Feb, at an evil gun show. I bought some stuff for it, so I could get it to look as much like my Bushmaster XM-15 as possible.
Before and after,



Anyone who can tell me how the rifle is different, beyond a cosmetic change, gets a cookie.