Here's another one of those assault weapons, designed to be spray fired from the hip...

[benEzra]

according to the, ah, experts at the Brady Campaign...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z89nJ5zA4bI



Those are some pretty impressive groups, methinks. I'd like to see Sarah Brady's bolt rifle she purchased for her son a few years ago try to match those.

FWIW, that target rifle would be banned by name by H.R.1022 as an evil "assault weapon," and even if it weren't, it would be banned based on the stock shape (ergonomic stocks would be verboten on autoloaders).

The Mini-14 Target originated in an effort to make a Mini-14 that was as accurate as an AR-15, the most popular centerfire target rifle in America...which would also be outlawed by H.R.1022 as having no legitimate civilian purpose. Go figure...

More here:


http://www.gunsandhunting.com/rugermini14.html

[tachyon]

1. That horrible THING ...it MUST be OUTlawed! It LOOKS SO SCARY!!!!

I just ran out of response to utter fucking stupidity...

[Ian David]

2. Why would something designed to be fired from the hip have a scope on it...

unless you have an eye on the end of your penis?

[msmcghee]

3. You don't? n/t

[Ian David]

4. Sorry, I have penis-blindness.

Which is probably a good thing, considering some of the women I have dated.

[msmcghee]

6. Just joking of course. It's good to see that all DU'ers . .

. . are not anti-gun freaks. :thumbsup:

[Ian David]

8. My gun has killed one less person than Laura Bush's car.

Michael Dutton Douglas
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dutton_Douglas

[Sal Minella]

9. That little opening in the end is so oxygen can get to the brain, not to look through.

:evilgrin:

[benEzra]

11. :)

[SteveM]

37. HA!

[benEzra]

5. LOL...I was being sarcastic. The Brady Campaign claims that this gun

and guns like it are useless for lawful civilian purposes because they are "designed to be spray fired indiscriminately from the hip." Which is total BS--rifles are designed to be fired from the shoulder, period--but that statement is particularly asinine when they make it about guns like this, or the AR-15, that are this accurate.

From the Brady Campaign web site:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/faqs/?page=awb

Q: What is the difference between semi-automatic hunting rifles and semi-automatic assault weapons?

A: Sporting rifles and assault weapons are two distinct classes of firearms. While semi-automatic hunting rifles are designed to be fired from the shoulder and depend upon the accuracy of a precisely aimed projectile, semi-automatic assault weapons are designed to maximize lethal effects through a rapid rate of fire. Assault weapons are designed to be spray-fired from the hip, and because of their design, a shooter can maintain control of the weapon even while firing many rounds in rapid succession.

Yes, that's total BS.

[Ian David]

7. Somewhere between The Brady Campaign and The NRA must lie a rational middle.

Unfortunately, who ever that is, they don't seem to have a PAC.

[chunkstyle5]

18. Sure there is:

http://www.gunowners.org/

Very sensible, indeed.

[Ian David]

26. Thanks! I'll look into them! Oh, geeze....

These guys are nuts, too.

They're against trigger locks??
http://www.gunowners.org/hs0505.htm

They supported John Bolton??? Seriously??
http://www.gunowners.org/hs0502a.htm

Fuck 'em.

[chunkstyle5]

31. I can't speak to that

As regards Bolton, he's right on with the gun thing, but has so many other flaws, he's not really fit for public service.

But for gun locks, do you really want to be required to use them? Criminals don't. I'm sure they would just love to have yours in place, when they break into your house at 3AM, and you have to fumble to get it off in the dark, so you can defend yourself, your family and your home.

Now, it's true I keep the MAJORITY of my guns under lock and key, but not the ones that I keep handy for immediate self-defense.

GOA gets many things right, and most of them are about their core issue of guns, so I support them.

You might also try the Second Amendment Foundation:

www.saf.org

Or Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership:

www.jpfo.org

[chunkstyle5]

19. See, that's only part of the picture.

They want to ban semi-autos, like this one, because they fire TOO FAST.

They want to ban guns meant to be fired slowly, because those are DEADLY DANGEROUS SNIPER WEAPONS!

They want to ban Barrett .50's, Desert Eagles, and S&W .500's because they are TOO BIG.

And the want to ban "Saturday night specials", because they are TOO SMALL.

No matter the gun, they will find something that makes it unacceptable.

[Ian David]

27. We should all just buy the Smith & Wesson Goldilocks Gun. n/t

[krispos42]

20. Well, it is called the "one-eyed trouser snake"...

:rofl:

[DeadEyeDyck]

28. winky winky

[benEzra]

10. For more groans and/or giggles...

here's a column on the issue I just found, that (unfortunately) was penned here in my home state of NC. Egads. I think it may be a couple of years old, though. Keep in mind she's talking about the most popular civilian target rifles in America, and the rifle pictured in the OP.

http://www.wncguide.com/news_views/eva_ritchey/

Semiautomatic weapons can be every bit as deadly as fully automatic machine guns. While a single shot weapon can also easily kill, it can’t spray the death and destruction that these specially equipped weapons can. Since semi-automatics automatically load the next bullet in the chamber, a user can fire up to thirty bullets in five seconds. Unlike semi-automatic hunting rifles that are designed to be fired from the shoulder, semi-automatic assault weapons with special grips and threaded barrels for silencers are designed to be spray fired from the hip thus maximizing death and injury. Any weapon, whether semi-automatic or fully automatic that delivers this kind of fire power is an assault on the life and liberty of law enforcement officers and the American public. No, these weapons don’t just “look scary” as the NRA contends they are scary...

We must oppose the heartless horsemen who roam the corridors of Congress spreading fear and cash...The Assault Weapons Ban has saved lives. Million Moms and North Carolinians Against Gun Violence asks you to contact our Congressmen and Senators to support it’s reauthorization. Million Mom’s invites you to join us Mother’s Day in Washington DC as we use our voices and our votes to protect America’s children from real weapons of mass destruction right here at home.

[bossy22]

12. wow

people just don't get it sometimes....what is funny is that what is considered an assault weapon in some legislation- is considered perfectly OK in other....for example NJ Bans the M1 Carbine but California has stated that the M1 carbine is not an assault weapon.

The assault weapon ban is just an attempt to ban ALL semi-auto rifles by picking characteristics that are common on MOST of the semi -auto's out there- the ones that dont conform to these characteristics (M1A's, Mini-14/30 M1 carbine/garand are then banned by name). Its so they can say "look, you can still own semi-auto, as long as it isnt on this list or have these characters- when in fact there are very few semi-autos that dont have those characters"

The reason that the Mini-14 is now in the new ban is simply because they didnt know it existed back in 1994.

and to anyone who believes that the pistol grip on an AR-15/M16 is so that someone can spray fire from the hip- go read the Marine Corp Training Manual- they say differently

[benEzra]

13. Actually, the Mini-14 was listed as "Particularly Suitable for Sporting Purposes" in 1994,

in the kitchen-sink list of "exempted" conventional-looking guns put there to supposedly make gun owners feel better.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c103:H.R.3355.ENR:

In SEC. 110106, "APPENDIX A TO SECTION 922 OF TITLE 18," the "Sturm, Ruger Mini-14" was listed as being protected by virtue of being "particularly suitable for sporting purposes." I can't find that list online anymore, but I have a hardcopy around here somewhere.

Now, H.R.1022 lists the Mini-14--the same rifle--as an evil "semiautomatic assault weapon" and bans it by name.

I suppose the gun-ban lobby got tired of people pointing out that the "evil" AR-15 and the "sporting" Mini-14 are identical in pretty much every way except (1) looks and (2) the AR was always the superior target rifle.

[SteveM]

38. Don't give 'em any ideas! They'll come for my 1905 '03 .22 Winchester.

[iverglas]

14. "they didnt know (the Mini-14) existed back in 1994"

Some of us did, long before that.




Marc Lépine

+


Semi-automatic Mini-14 rifle

=


An injured person is wheeled away from
Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique on Dec. 6, 1989
after gunman Marc Lepine opened fire at the university.
(Shaney Komulainen/Canadian Press)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/school-shootings/

Dec. 6, 1989:
L'École Polytechnique, Montreal
Marc Lépine, 25, walks into a classroom at Montreal's l'École Polytechnique engineering school, separates the men from the women and tells the men to leave. Then he begins shooting from a semi-automatic military weapon, shouting "I want women" as he roams the school's floors. Lépine kills 13 female students and a college employee, and injures 13 others before committing suicide. He had purchased a semi-automatic, a Ruger Mini-14, to carry out his assault. The ease with which he had acquired it and carried out the assault leads to the creation of pressure groups, which eventually forces the federal government to set up a national gun control registry.

We're still working on getting the Mini-14 prohibited.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-14

At the 1986 FBI Miami shootout, criminals armed with a Mini-14 outgunned FBI agents who had only pistols and a shotgun ... .

Surely not.

[bossy22]

15. guess im wrong

the law said it was a sporting gun- so they must have known about it....i find it very interesting because the Mini-14's accuracy pales in comparison to the AR-15's accuracy....Mini-14 is still a fun gun, just wish it came with mags that held more than 5 rounds

btw the FBI case is a classic case of pistol v. rifle- rifle wins

[iverglas]

16. yup, just barrels of fun

I'm sure the 26 people shot by Marc Lépine thought just that, as they were staring down the barrel. "Barrels of fun."

You enthusiasts may really care about accuracy. You seem to be labouring under the delusion that people committing mass murder and engaged in shootouts with police actually care about accuracy. Funny how they do occasionally choose one of those less-accurate thingies for those purposes, eh?

Just dumb, I guess.

[bossy22]

17. you put too much stock

into the criminal thought process of choosing a weapon- they most often don't do there research- they see a gun- looks like it could be useful- then buy it...irrespective that there may be another gun that is more effective.

also

Car
+
illegal drag race

=
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=4301114


we really need to ban large spoilers and superchargers- no one needs to make there car go 0-60 in under 6 seconds.


+

=
Hungerford Massacre

guess we should ban the M1 Carbine too

P.S.- M1 carbines are now available for mail order from CMP for all qualified US citizens

[iverglas]

21. too much stock

hahahahah. Barrels of fun. Too much stock ....



we really need to ban large spoilers and superchargers- no one needs to make there car go 0-60 in under 6 seconds.

You expect me to disagree?

Street racing is almost as much of a problem in Toronto these days as street guns. The Conservative fed govt is taking its usual ideology-driven, ineffective harsher sentences approach, of course. Like punks who street race don't already think they're invincible.

Lépine chose his firearm very carefully. He told the clerk he was hunting "small game".

So did Kimveer Gill, choose his carefully.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060914/gill_profile_060914/20060914/



That's a Baretta CX4 Storm semi-automatic. He actually went to the trouble of joining a gun club so he could get a permit to purchase it. He may well not have intended to do anything else at the time. Maybe it was just all those months of playing with it in the basement, taking pictures of himself with it ...

He only managed to kill one other person before the police who happened to be in the building killed him.


guess we should ban the M1 Carbine too

Well, it's restricted where I'm at -- i.e. to members of approved gun clubs and "collectors" only -- and the gun nuts up here think that's as silly as you do.

[krispos42]

23. Some of those pictures of him with his carbine were disturbing

It's one thing to have your picture taken with your gun and a kill, like, say, a deer. Or a couple of buddies out hunting, a few action shots out in the field. Or maybe if you shoot a really good group and you're proud of it, like a fisherman posing with the one that didn't get away.

There exist a few pictures of me holding a gun, and all of them are in the context of hunting or clay-pidgeon shooting. No picture of me exists otherwise for the exact same reason that such pictures of Gill DO exist: it's flashy and showy and kind of creepy.

[krispos42]

22. I'm sure they were also wondering if the gun was registered...

if the magazine capacity was legal, if it was purchased legally, if it had been stored safely in Lépine's home, if Lépine's mental-health records had been properly forwarded to the police, if it had a protruding pistol grip, if it had a bayonet lug, if it had a barrel shroud, etc.


Or maybe they just thought "oh, shit!"

[iverglas]

24. you checked the date?

1989. No firearms registry. No major licensing requirements. I believe Lépine walked into a sporting goods store and picked it out. Today he would have to have a licence and register the purchase.

A significant factor in the fact that we now have a licensing and registration system. Which, like all systems, needs improvement and doesn't achieve its intended purposes 100% of the time.


Re the other one, Kimveer Gill, the photos come from his MySpace page, which I managed to see before it got taken down, and saved all the photos from. Quite the array.



I don't think he bothered taking that with him when he went to Dawson College to kill people.

Gill did have a licence and had registered. The unfortunate phenomenon seems to be that some people like these go for the guns just as they are beginning to slide into whatever abyss it is that they decide to shoot their way out of, or at least before anyone has paid any notice to what's happening.

I do quite seriously think that in Gill's case the months of social isolation in the company of only his weapons was a contributing factor in his eventual actions. Having the fantasies and the means to carry them out and the disturbance that makes it seem like a thing to actually do can make for a deadly combination.


edited because something managed to make no sense at all


And to mention: Gill's web page wasn't "kinda creepy" -- it was creepy beyond belief. ;)

[krispos42]

25. Yeah, I did

The assault-weapons ban here in the states was passed in 1993, but had been floating around for years prior. The DNC made it a part of their party platform in 1992.

The idea was probably exasperated, ecxasperated, excasperated, um, made worse by the importation of former Warsaw Pact firearms into America.


Regarding Gill, I do often wonder what role both the media feeding frenzy after a school shooting and urban society's extreme and vocal dislike of guns plays with people like him.

[chunkstyle5]

30. I think it interesting

That all of these mass killings happen in supposed "gun-free" zones. Schools, Post Offices, workplaces that ban, Va Tech, the whole state of California, the whole country of Canada.

Yet, when there's permit holders around, the bad guys end up stopped very quickly, like in the Colorado church shooting.

Funny you never mention that. Funny how it dropped off the media's radar, too.

[iverglas]

32. my dear boy

Yet, when there's permit holders around, the bad guys end up stopped very quickly, like in the Colorado church shooting.

Funny you never mention that. Funny how it dropped off the media's radar, too.

If you want to trust your life to there being permit holders around, you go right ahead.

Do they give out their cell phone numbers so that you can reach them in an emergency?

[pipoman]

33. I dont know about chunk

but yes, I trust my life to there being permit holders around before I trust there will be police around mainly because I am a permit holder. Do you want to trust your life on there being police around? I don't care about statistics when I am being assaulted, I care about anecdotes.

[iverglas]

34. moi?

Do you want to trust your life on there being police around?

I trust my life to living in a civilized society where the chance of me having any reason to worry about my life is about as close to nil as you can get. Unless I happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and get caught in crossfire, which is far too common in large cities all over North America. Not sure what a permit holder could do for me in that case, since I'd be lying on the pavement bleeding, but I'm sure s/he would work some magic that would save you if it were you instead of me. Do those permits come with defibrillators attached, or sumpthin?

[chunkstyle5]

36. In short

You believe in wishful thinking.

I believe in self reliance.

Statistics are how things are likely to turn out, anecdotes are how they actually turn out.

I have a permit, and I do carry. I can have myself armed in less than a second, to fend off a deadly attack against myself or my family members. Cops take considerably longer to arrive.

Take, for example, the VT murders. Cho killed, what, 32 people? Supposing you were to have been target #27 and I #14. Were I to have stopped him to save my own life, I would have also stopped him from ending yours. That's what a permit holder can do for you. No magic involved.

This is exactly how it played out in Colorado. Instead of the murderer killing scores, as he was obviously ready to do, Jeannie Assam stopped him, and he only got 2, not counting himself. Just one permit holder made the difference. You see?

[Tejas]

29. If you look at that rifle closely

right there under the very front of the scope, that.....that thing.....with the holes in it....it has a "shoulder thing that goes up".

Well, at least it does according to Ms. HR1022 herself, Carolyn McCarthy.

[sir pball]

35. This one too!

Of course...the one and only time I tried firing it off my hip I put a whopping 11 out of 20 shots into a human sized target at TWENTY-FIVE yards. Granted I was firing pretty quickly, under 1 shot/sec, but isn't that the whole idea of "spraying from a bullet hose"? If I want to shoot at a slower pace I might as well drop to the ground and aim, that way I can put three rounds into .517" at 100 yards. No faster than with a bolt rifle though, but that wouldn't read so well in histrionic ad copy..