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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 05:57 PM
Original message
America's shooting gallery for this week...
\
IL: Taylorville Shooting Classified as Murder/Suicide
WA: Arrest warrant issued for man suspected in deputy's shooting
SC: Man identified in fatal shooting
OH: Lima officer charged in fatal shooting
CA: Police say an apparent gang shooting in California has left an 11-year-old boy dead and another man wounded.
FL: 3 students allegedly plotted shooting
AL: Police search for 'armed and dangerous' shooting suspect
MN: Police say traffic collision led to fatal shooting
FL: Shooting in West Boca a murder-suicide
CA: A deadly shooting on a Southbay freeway sends a driver and his passenger to the hospital.
***

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EricTeri Donating Member (259 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hmm...lets see...
IL: Taylorville Shooting Classified as Murder/Suicide - No law would have stopped that....

WA: Arrest warrant issued for man suspected in deputy's shooting - Yeah so?

SC: Man identified in fatal shooting - Ok, so they're catching the bad guys, and you have a problem with this?

OH: Lima officer charged in fatal shooting - Excuse me, Ms. Hypocrite - but aren't cops the very people you say SHOULD be armed?

CA: Police say an apparent gang shooting in California has left an 11-year-old boy dead and another man wounded. - You did notice that whole "gang" bit right? That means they were breaking the law. Got any suggestions of how to make criminals stop breaking the law? Seriously - i'm sure EVERYONE wants to know.

FL: 3 students allegedly plotted shooting - ALLEGEDLY PLOTTED, but didnt do it. Got it....so because someone has accused them of THINKING about it...

AL: Police search for 'armed and dangerous' shooting suspect - Again - cops doing their job. Still working on that way to make criminals obey the law, or did you give up?

MN: Police say traffic collision led to fatal shooting - Once more, this is criminal behavior...

FL: Shooting in West Boca a murder-suicide - Murder/suicide, kinda like the first example.... No law would have stopped this either...

CA: A deadly shooting on a Southbay freeway sends a driver and his passenger to the hospital. - Got some details? Sounds like ...(drumroll please....) CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR!

Jeezus Zanne, do you have a point with this post, or are you just demonstrating your copy/paste ability?
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Excellent refutations
I especially liked:
"OH: Lima officer charged in fatal shooting - Excuse me, Ms. Hypocrite - but aren't cops the very people you say SHOULD be armed?"


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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I am trying to point out that we have a violent gun culture in this country.
Get a clue.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Don't be surprised when people point out the violence is always done by individuals
Most often by individuals who have a history of violent behavior.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. And you're now arguing that the police are part of that violent culture
You should really work on disarming them.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. okay ...


IL: Taylorville Shooting Classified as Murder/Suicide - No law would have stopped that....

Isn't it funny how, actually, no law has ever stopped anything?? Laws are kinda, oh, etherial things. They don't tend to have mass or volume, such as is usually needed for stopping things.

If I have been disqualified from driving and had my driver's licence revoked, no law is going to stop me from driving.

But if I've also had my car confiscated (and don't happen to have a few thousand bucks for another one ... yes, no analogy is perfect), my inability to produce a driver's licence is pretty much going to prevent anything less than a braindead clerk at a car rental company from handing me the keys. And no friend of mine who wants to keep his/her insurance policy (a prerequisite for licensing his/her own car) is going to hand me those keys.

So you almost might say that the law that disqualified me from driving prevented me from driving ...

I wonder ... if there had been a law that said that firearms must be registered and firearms owners must be licensed (let's say the law was adopted 25 years ago) ... would it have been really easy for the person in question to get that firearm? We'll just never know, will we?

Of course, s/he coulda done the deed without the firearm. Smothered the victim with a pillow, and then walked to the nearest bridge and jumped off. You hear about that happening a lot.


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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. you must tell us what you know!


OH: Lima officer charged in fatal shooting - Excuse me, Ms. Hypocrite - but aren't cops the very people you say SHOULD be armed?

Nobody else except the people who were there seems to know what happened. Not even FoxNews, where the story seems to be getting some play. You must, since you seem to have some sort of opinion. Won't you share? I assume you've googlenewsed it like I've googlenewsed it.

I'll bet there wasn't a single firearm anywhere near the premises where that incident occurred (during a raid resulting from a drug trafficking investigation, in case you haven't quite googlenewsed it). Just no reason for the cops to have firearms at all.


SC: Man identified in fatal shooting - Ok, so they're catching the bad guys, and you have a problem with this?

Absolutely. I know I can speak for zanne on this one. She is appalled when they catch the bad guys. Outraged. That is precisely why she brought this item to our attention. So we could all be similarly outraged. What's wrong with you? Why aren't you outraged?


WA: Arrest warrant issued for man suspected in deputy's shooting - Yeah so?

So ... oh, well, you're right, he's not dead, so he won't be counting in any of the statistics we love to dance around hereabouts.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_nm_deputy_shot_warrant.html
The warrant accuses Kurt Sohrbeck, 53, of attempted murder, aggravated fleeing from law enforcement, being a felon in possession of a firearm and tampering with evidence in the shooting of Sgt. Robert Shepperd.

Shepperd was shot March 13 in the head, upper chest and left arm after pursuing Sohrbeck through the back roads of this southeastern New Mexico village. Shepperd was in stable condition Monday at a hospital in El Paso, Texas.

Authorities describe Sohrbeck as a career criminal and con artist with a record in 11 states, including pending charges for assault and eluding police in Whatcom County, Wash. He also is wanted by Washington state authorities in several cases of identity theft.

And he obviously had enemies, so he obviously needed that firearm for self-defence. And anyone who would say nay just hates We the People.


FL: 3 students allegedly plotted shooting - ALLEGEDLY PLOTTED, but didnt do it. Got it....so because someone has accused them of THINKING about it...

Who, now you're getting all complicated.

Allegedly plotted ... kinda like that cop who allegedly committed negligent homicide.

Didn't do it ... which would kinda be because they got caught first:

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/03/17/3_students_13_allegedly_plotted_shooting/5807/
An arrest affidavit filed in court in DeLand, Fla., said Austin Mohr, Tyler Christian and Charlene Russell, all students at DeLand Middle School, planned to kill at least two specific students before turning their weapons on themselves, WKMG-TV in Orlando, Fla., reported Monday.

The teens, who were each charged Friday with conspiracy to commit murder, allegedly sought to obtain hunting rifles from friends.
But "accused them of THINKING about it?" If you'd like a crash course in criminal law, I can give you a good rate. When three people "plot" something, well, unless they're telepathic, they're kinda not just thinking about it.


MN: Police say traffic collision led to fatal shooting - Once more, this is criminal behavior...

Hmm. Can't find that one. But just let me say: yes, criminal behaviour! Just like it woulda been if the guy with the gun hadn't had a gun and had punched the other person out instead. Except the other person would for pretty sure still be alive today. Hell, a suspicious mind just might expect that if the first guy hadn't had a gun in his car in the first place, NOBODY would have been assaulted, let alone killed. Getting into fisticuffs can just be so much riskier than hauling out one's surrogate ego and blasting somebody away.


This was fun. Got any other silly grist for the mill?


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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Oh, I'll be posting more of these. nt
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I know you will; you rather enjoy it.
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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. I bet, Truth be damed right?
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EricTeri Donating Member (259 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Post all you want
Doesn't make you any more right.

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Turbo Teg Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Not a problem.
I will be posting my own aswell.
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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Typical "supporting evidence" of a gun grabber.
Thank you for researching this. I was thinking of hitting up the various web sites and putting together a list of defensive uses of firearms for the last month.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Gee. The idiot in Texas who shot at two kids going through his yard...
That just didn't get your attention, did it? Talk about cherry-picking. By the way, guys, ganging up on one person doesn't really work. One intelligent person against alot of idiots has a pretty good advantage.
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EricTeri Donating Member (259 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. well yeah, one intelligent person against an idiot still has an advantage
but one idiot against a bunch of intelligent people is pretty well screwed.

Guess which situation applies here?
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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. IF you bother to read that article. . . .
you'll note that the facts are not all in yet. Here in the U.S. we wait to pass judgment. You know that pesky Innocent until proven guilty thing?
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
27. Posted in the wrong place.
Above was in reply to a post by spoony. Sorry, Iverglass.
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fightthegoodfightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. WOW.....
.........defending every violent gun crime must be a full time job for you.

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Turbo Teg Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well here's

Americas self defense shooting gallery.



Wednesday, March 19, 2008


Tucker, Georgia

From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution of March 19, 2008
Elderly Tucker man kills intruder

If a DeKalb County home invasion suspect thought an elderly Tucker couple would make an easy target Tuesday night, he thought wrong.

Now the suspect is dead, and DeKalb police say the 81-year-old homeowner will not face charges for shooting and killing the man.

DeKalb police spokesman J.T. Ware said that about 11 p.m., the unidentified suspect, who appeared to be in his 20s, broke into the home on Zemory Drive, in a neighborhood off Lawrenceville Highway.

"The suspect, as he was entering the location, made enough noise to arouse the suspicions of the homeowner, and he was able to locate his weapon and load it," Ware said.

The homeowner confronted the suspect, and after a brief struggle, shot and killed the man, Ware said.

He said the homeowner, whose name has not been released, was hospitalized for treatment of wounds suffered during the struggle, but is expected to be okay. The man's 78-year-old wife was not injured.

Ware said police do not plan to charge the homeowner.

"He defended his home, defended his wife," Ware said. "He did what everybody would hope to do in a situation like that."
Labels: GA, home invasion


posted by Dave at 4:44 AM permalink


Tuesday, March 18, 2008


Kansas City, Missouri

From the Kansas City Star of March 11, 2008
Man thwarts three would-be burglars

The pounding of feet against his front door awoke a 56-year-old Kansas City man early Tuesday.

“Was that you?” Les Daniel called to his 10-year-old grandson in another bedroom.

“No,” the boy replied.

Daniel climbed from bed, grabbed two handguns and prepared for a showdown.

He recounted to a Kansas City Star reporter the story of the break-in at 2:20 a.m. Tuesday in the 4400 block of East 68th Terrace.

When he peered into his darkened dining room, fish tank lights illuminated a hooded stranger slinking across the room to inspect a home computer.

“Who is it?” Daniel asked.

“KCP,” the stranger replied, an apparent reference to Kansas City police.

Daniel saw a second stranger and heard a third. He wondered whether to confront them or just kill them.

“I was behind two of them, and they didn’t even know it. I could have killed them really quick,” he recalled. “But they looked young. And if I start shooting, they’re gonna shoot back.”

Not wanting to endanger his wife and grandson, Daniel called out: “Whatever you think I got, you’re wrong! There ain’t anything in here! You’re about ready to die over $8!”

He chambered a round in his .357-caliber Glock with a loud click. The intruders fled.

Daniel couldn’t figure why his house was targeted.

“I guess it looks like I got something, but I don’t,” he said.

Unable to secure his splintered front door, he stayed up the rest of the night in case the intruders returned. Later, he bought a new door with a strike plate, and a new wrought-iron screen door.
Labels: home invasion, MO


posted by Dave at 5:53 AM permalink







posted by Dave at 5:45 AM permalink




Kent County, Delaware

From the News Journal of March 18, 2008
Man shot in home invasion south of Hartly

A 29-year-old man was shot in the leg during a home invasion early Monday south of Hartly, state police said.

The victim was not seriously injured and refused to be taken to the hospital, state police spokesman Cpl. John W. Barnett Jr. said.

According to investigators, two or three men entered the home in the 3000 block of Hourglass Road by an unsecured ground-floor door about 2 a.m.

When the intruders were confronted by the homeowner, one of the intruders fired a gun at him.

The homeowner returned fire at the suspects using a handgun, Barnett said.

After several shots were fired, the intruders fled without taking anything.

The homeowner was struck once in the left leg, Barnett said. The gunshot wound was minor and he was treated at the scene.

A 22-year-old woman and two children, ages 2 and 11, were also home during the incident. They were not injured.

(More)
Labels: DE, defender shot, home invasion


posted by Dave at 5:19 AM permalink


Monday, March 17, 2008


Harrison County, Kentucky

From WLEX of March 10, 2008
Burglar Shot By Homeowner, Arrested

An alleged burglar who was shot by a homeowner in Harrison County Sunday night is now behind bars.

The incident happened at about 9:30 p.m. at a home on Old Lair Road. Police say Thomas Perysian, 25, of Cynthiana was discovered by homeowner Kevin Landrum, who shot Perysian in his right hand and forearm with a shotgun. Police say Landrum called them from a cell phone while holding the gun on Perysian.

Police say Perysian was treated and released from UK Hospital. He is now being held in the Grant County Detention Center on first-degree burglary charges.
Labels: KY, residence robbery


posted by Dave at 6:56 PM permalink


Sunday, March 16, 2008


Cottonwood, Arizona

From February 22, 2008 Cottonwood Police Department press release:

UPDATE: On 02-22-08 at about 11:08 am a fatal shooting occurred in the parking lot of the Safeway store, 1635 E. Cottonwood Street. The deceased person is identified as James Keith Orsini, 47, of Cottonwood. Mr. Orsini died at the scene. Next of kin have been notified.

ORIGINAL REPORT: The Cottonwood Police Department is investigating a homicide that occurred on February 22, 2008 at about 11:08 AM in the Safeway Store parking lot.

Cottonwood, Arizona, February 22, 2008 - Today at about 1108 AM Officers of the Cottonwood Police Department responded to the parking lot of the Safeway Store, 1635 E Cottonwood Street, on the report of shots fired. They found one subject down with apparent gunshot wounds and a second subject nearby. The gunshot victim was deceased at the scene. At the time of this report he has not been positively identified. The other party involved is identified as James Sherman King, 59 years old, of Cottonwood.

Preliminary investigation revealed that the incident started on the roadway and both subjects pulled into the store parking lot. Witnesses state that the deceased subject approached Mr. King with a raised axe. They heard two shots and the man with the axe fell to the ground.
Labels: altercation, AZ


posted by Clayton at 7:17 PM permalink




South Salt Lake, Utah

From March 15, 2008 KUTV channel 2:

A man shot an intruder in the stomach after the suspect attacked his girlfriend in her South Salt Lake home.

The woman was sleeping in her home in Mountain Shadows Apartments on 3900 south and 700 west, when around 5:45 a.m., she was awakened by a loud bang.

A man, who police have identified as 18-year-old, Daniel Glen Larson, allegedly kicked in the apartment door and shattered the door frame.

The woman immediately alerted her boyfriend, who was also in the apartment and began calling 911.

Just as she was dialing the numbers into her phone, Larson allegedly grabbed the woman and began attacking her.

Seconds later, the woman’s boyfriend retrieved his loaded handgun and shot Larson in the abdomen.

Wounded, Larson ran to the living room where both victims attempted to restrain him until police arrived.

Larson broke free from the man and woman and jumped through a plate of glass window, dramatically exiting the apartment.

Larson then attempted to run across 3900 south, where he was almost hit by motorists.

After a minor struggle with the arriving South Salt Lake officers, Larson was taken into custody.

Police say that this was definitely not what the intruder expected.

“We had a bandit that in this case, bit off a little more than he could chew,” said Gary Keller from the South Salt Lake Police Department.

The man who shot Larson has a concealed weapon’s permit and has received training in operating of handguns.
Labels: concealed carry permit, home invasion, UT


posted by Clayton at 7:12 PM permalink


Friday, March 14, 2008


North Richland Hills, Texas

From the March 14, 2008 Dallas Morning News:

A homeowner shot an intruder early Friday morning, and North Richland Hills police were investigating whether criminal charges would be filed.

The incident occurred about 12:30 a.m. in the 7900 block of Laura Street, said North Richland Hills police Sgt. Greg Trickey.

The 30-year-old homeowner heard some noises outside and confronted a person in his backyard. The homeowner told the person to stay put, but the man advanced, police said. Samuel Thomas Ford, 27, was shot in the shoulder and taken to John Peter Smith Hospital with a non-life threatening injury, police said.

Police declined to release the name of the homeowner.


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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Thanks Turbo, you beet me to it!
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. and I turnip you to it!

Take that!1!1!!!!1!
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sergeiAK Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I rutabaga the both of you! -nt
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I won't cast asparagus at you! nt
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Turbo Teg Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Thanks, bieng hit with veggies is never fun.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
42. You collard the market on that?
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Indy Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. A list of crimes commited by criminals.


I suggest we find and arrest the criminals who committed these crimes if they are still alive.

I also suggest we lengthen prison sentences for violent offenders, as statically most crimes are committed by repeat offenders.

What do you suggest?



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Turbo Teg Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. Link please.
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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. You wouldn't happen to have links for these would you?
I think you're supposed to aren't you?
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Turbo Teg Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I would think so.
Funny, I got called out for links with in the first 5 post on my thread, but nobody has asked for a link to this info? I guess it may just be that actually using a gun for self defense is just so un-believable.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. you got google? I got google

(I'd tried googling your items before the link was requested, but hadn't found the source for the compilation.)

http://www.gunguys.com/wp-print.php?p=2892

America’s Shooting Gallery 3.18
Posted On 18th March 2008 @ In Guns


It takes you first to
http://www.freedomstatesalliance.com/
http://www.freedomstatesalliance.com/mission.php


Not finding any links to Michelle Malkin or Democratic Party sex scandals there though, dang.



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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. So you think "gunguys" is a reliable source? HaHaHaHa
not THAT was a funny post!!
























































Ha Ha. I'm still laughing.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. I don't know, dear; why do you ask?


Did I say or suggest or imply that gunguys is a credible source for anything? I don't think so.

Do I think gunguys is a credible source for reports of firarms violence in the US in a week? I haven't bothered considering the question. That would be a waste of time. Gunguys isn't the source for the reports of firearms violence that were posted. Gunguys was the source for a list of those reports. Gunguys cites its sources. The question would be whether it was credible when it cited the sources, I guess. That's pretty easily tested; if you are as suspicious of gunguys as you claim to be, feel free to check its citations. If the citations are accurate, then the question would be whether those sources were credible, if there were a question of credibility. I hadn't noticed anyone raising such a question.

I thought we all understood this.

And this would be why no one appears to have questioned the credibility of the source of the list of alleged self-defence shootings elsewhere in the forum. The credibility of that source is completely irrelevant, when that source is only a secondary source, for a list of primary sources that are fully cited.

Should you still be confused on this issue, there is another post in this thread that should clear it all up for you.
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Turbo Teg Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. That's fine, as long as we're talking about the source.
It seems to me that when I posted the link to Clayton Kramers website you got all bent out of shape because of where the information was compiled, and not from where the information was obtained. If I'm reading you right, your saying that it doesn't matter where the information was compiled just as long as the sources were the info was retrieve is credible, unless there's a double standard here?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. if you're getting me right ...


then you're grasping the fact that I am never-endingly amused at the places where people who post in this forum spend their time.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. I suspect...
that where it's copied/pasted from would be something better not revealed hereabouts ...
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. and yet ...


I "revealed" it, half an hour before you suspected ...

Wasn't a problem for me. Was it a problem for you?

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. It's from a site that has no credibility for me
:hi:
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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Come on. You know . . . um. . .very well. . .um . . .that . . .um
Gunguys. . .LOL. . .HaHaHa. . .um yeah. . .Gunguys. . .LOL. . . Ha. . .is. . .um. . .




LOL




LOL




HaHaHa




Is



Reliable (there I got it out)

Ha



Ha




Ha



LOL





LOL
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. but but but


That's of absolutely no relevance. All the links to the original news reports are there.

Lest you be labouring under a mistaken impression, I have never said anything about the "credibility" of the sites where lists of alleged self-defence shootings are lifted from. Their credibility, as regards the reports in question, can be tested by consulting the original reports, so there is simply no issue.

My question was about the crediiblity of people who spend their time at sites such as the sites in question -- sites that link to Michelle Malkin and blogs about Democratic Party sex scandals, and declare their desire to do away with the ACLU, and like that. The credibility of some people's their solemn pronouncements of d/Democratic / progressive / liberal creeds and credentials.

I just find it a tad non-credible that people who spend as much time as some people obviously do at such sites would be d/Democrats/progressives/liberals, and that people who are d/Democrats/progressives/liberals would spend so much time at such sites. Don't you wonder sometimes??

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I hold all authoritarian "sources" equally in contempt
Regardless of whether they fall to the right or the left of center.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. well bully for you


Now, if the nature or credibility of a source is ever actually in issue in a discussion here, you feel free to express your contempt or lack thereof.

Of course, if you just want to do that willy-nilly, as you seem to want to do, do visit the thread about alleged self-defence shootings and express your opinion of that source. I'm sure you'll be wanting to.

At least it would be relevant there, since there would be an actual "authoritarian" source in the vicinity ...



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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. So wait a minute
A person uses their time, money and bandwidth to collect and make available a handy list of relevant stories for armed self defense use, saving me the effort of searching all news sources for these whenever some passionate gun controller starts saying guns are no use for normal civilians and only used for criminal purposes, and I should NOT take advantage of his efforts because he's a right winger?

What exactly do you mean by "spend time"? You mean saying "hey let's look at this guy's site for the next anti rebuttal because he's already done the work I'd have to in hunting down links"?
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. I dunno
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 05:53 PM by iverglas


A person uses their time, money and bandwidth to collect and make available a handy list of relevant stories for armed self defense use, saving me the effort of searching all news sources for these whenever some passionate gun controller starts saying guns are no use for normal civilians and only used for criminal purposes, and I should NOT take advantage of his efforts because he's a right winger?

Are you sure you meant to answer my post? I don't recall saying you "should NOT take advantage of his efforts because he's a right winger". You must have confused me with someone else.


What exactly do you mean by "spend time"? You mean saying "hey let's look at this guy's site for the next anti rebuttal because he's already done the work I'd have to in hunting down links"?

Hmm. I guess I mean: hey, why do I even know what the URL for this site is??

Never asked yourself that? Odd.


html fixed
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liberal4truth Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
39. Once Obama is in we can curb this violence once again, thankfully!
this crap has got to stop and it will with democrats at the helm and in congress.
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NickTX Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Yeah?
Edited on Fri Mar-21-08 02:50 PM by NickTX
How exactly are you going to do that?

Last I heard the UK is now talking of blunting the tips of kitchen knives to try and "curb violence". Must be nice to live in a gun and violence free culture where you can't even own a steak knife.

When are you people going to understand that violent people are going to commit violent crimes with whatever tools are available to them?

Seriously this lack of common sense is what drove me from the Democratic party. I have spent years dealing with violent street trash and know for certain that these people will kill just as effectively with a sharpened tooth brush and a shaving razor living in a facility where even the guards are unarmed. There are predators in our society and disarming the sheep is not going to move them one inch closer to safety.
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liberal4truth Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. funny that the Canadians have strong gun laws & littte gun crime
but you go ahead and believe your fantasy of an armed to the teeth nation ever becoming anything less then a shooting gallery.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. They had even less crime back when guns were as available there as here.
The same is true for the UK.

BTW, some of the most "armed to the teeth" states in this country are New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine. On the other hand, places like Chicago and the District of Columbia have some of the lowest lawful gun ownership rates in the nation, and they are not crime-free utopias.

The guns in our family's gun safe haven't harmed anyone and almost certainly aren't going to. We'll keep them, thanks.







----------------------
The Conservative Roots of U.S. Gun Control

Thoughts on Gun Ownership

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)
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EricTeri Donating Member (259 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-21-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Oh?
Pray tell, how WILL he do that?
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liberal4truth Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Massive tax and licensing of firearms ammunition would be a good first step.
in ridding this country of all the gun violence.

The trek of a thousand miles starts with one step.
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fightthegoodfightnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Works for Me
Definitely.
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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Yes, insure that only the rich can afford to defend themselves.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. So, people like me shouldn't be allowed to shoot?
Edited on Sat Mar-22-08 11:55 AM by benEzra
I've got a million-dollar cardiac kid, with well in excess of $50,000 out of pocket over the last eight years, and we are limited to one income because my son's medical needs require one of us to stay home with him on a regular basis. I don't have anywhere near the disposable income that you probably do.

At current ammo prices (triple what they were a few years ago), I can barely afford ammunition as it is. Right now, a single trip to the range, using low-cost ammunition for relatively inexpensive calibers (7.62x39mm and 9mm), can cost $50 in ammo alone for the two of us. How freaking expensive do you want to make it for us?

High ammo costs don't hurt criminals; a single box of ammunition might last a criminal years. The ones who would be hurt by high ammo prices would be working-class gun owners who shoot recreationally and competitively, i.e. people like me.
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liberal4truth Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Yeah, its really the only way to make an impact on these criminals
hit em in the pocket book where it hurts
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. You're not thinking through this (unless that was intended as satire).
A couple boxes of ammunition might serve a criminal for years. A lawful competitive shooter, on the other hand, might go through 10 or 20 boxes a week.

BTW, do you know what the street price of cocaine is? Do drug dealers have any trouble whatsoever affording cocaine?
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L1A1Rocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. And massive tax on voting at the polling stations
would rid this country of all the illegal voting going on.

We must insure the integrity of our voting system and this will be a meaningful first step.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
55. Not if your approach is to attack lawful and responsible owners again, rather than criminal misuse.
In 1994, merely requiring minor cosmetic changes to popular civilian rifles, and raising the price on civilian handgun magazines, cost at least 20 House seats (including the Speaker's, first time since the Civil War) and was a major factor in the loss of the Senate. The result was twelve years of a repub-controlled Congress and eight years of W, the Iraq war, the subprime crisis, and oil over $100 a barrel. All over a law that didn't even ban any guns, and that expired after 10 years.

Was that worth it to you?

I can tell you how to reduce the rate of violent crime in the United States (which is BTW still low by 20th century standards). Learn the lessons of alcohol prohibition and take a more intelligent approach to the drug issue, stop making drug smuggling and gang turf wars so damn profitable, and move to a treatment-based model for the hard drugs; use the prison beds you empty of harmless pot smokers to put away the truly dangerous. Return to the community-policing model and rebuild trust between the police and the community, instead of the present Homeland Security "keep the citizens in line" model that destroys that trust. Provide broader access to mental health care, and destigmatize seeking help when you need it. Fix our broken health-care system, and provide educational and economic opportunities that many Americans currently don't have. And figure out how to better socialize adolescents into adult roles; most nations do a heck of a lot better job of that than we do.

OR, you could try to restrict the lawful ownership of popular guns again, and throw away the opportunity to do any of the above, by pulling another 1994.


----------------------

The Conservative Roots of U.S. Gun Control

Thoughts on Gun Ownership

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What? (written in '04, largely vindicated in '06, IMO)
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