This is what we're up against folks...

[beevul]

House deferral kills assault weapons ban

By MICHELLE MILLHOLLON
Advocate Capitol News Bureau
Published: May 22, 2008 - Page: 9A - UPDATED: 12:05 a.m.

"New Orleans officials said the ban is necessary because the weapons penetrate body armor and car doors."

(Beevul sez: yeah, so will any other centerfire rifle, are they next?)

State Rep. Gary Smith, D-Norco, said it is the bullet that is the problem.

(Beevul sez: Misleading much?)

Cannatella said SKS assault rifles were designed to penetrate enemy barriers.

(Beevul sez: I don't believe this, since 7.62 x 39 is a relatively weak round, and tons of rifles are chambered in it. What does the SKS rifle in particular do when it shoots a round that makes is specially designed to "penetrate enemy barriers"?)


A certain type of bullet only fits that gun, he said.

(Beevul sez: Bullshit bullshit bullshit. There are tons of rifles chambered in 7.62 x 39.)

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/19164739.html

Wrongheaded bans aimed at the many, based on misleading and factually wrong information, triggered by the misuse of the few - and the media swallows it hook line and sinker.

This is what we're up against.

[old mark]

1. Recently, the police commisnioner in Phila

ranted against "assault weapons", and was reminded that the SKS, which he had included, did not fit the definition and is not an assault rifle.
He said,"We'll make it one and ban it too."
Fortunately Pennsylvania does not keep records of rifles or shotguns, so I believe my 3 "assault weapons" are safely tucked away here at home, and I will have some time to buy one or two more before all you wonderful Democrats try to take them away.

mark

[beevul]

3. Hey now...

I would remind you that we have a Democrat controlled pro-gun congress.


Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[burf]

5. Pro-gun.........?

H.R.1022
Title: To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep McCarthy, Carolyn (introduced 2/13/2007) Cosponsors (66)
Latest Major Action: 3/19/2007 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.

[benEzra]

6. There are 435 people in the house, over half of them Dems. Only 66 signed up for McC's bill.

We're still working on those 66. (One of them is a rep from my own state of NC, who doesn't know squat about firearms. I'm working to change that if I can.)

[maxidivine]

10. I hope that bill gets axed once and for all

and doesn't come back from the grave this time.

[Wickerman]

8. Wow, what with you with the "149" IQ, I'm surprised you missed this

on signup:

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

"...I will have some time to buy one or two more before all you wonderful Democrats try to take them away.

Or, perhaps you only missed the sarcasm tag on the Wonderful Democrats bit? :shrug:

[maxidivine]

11. I think he was talking about

the elements of the Democratic Party that would like to do away with civilian firearms.

[Wickerman]

12. I guess when posting on DEMOCRATIC Underground

that issue shouldn't even have to be in doubt. Regrettably, it so often is. And here we are, left to parse words and make assumptions over such a significant point. I've been down here long enough I never make that assumption over the single issue users.

[man4allcats]

2. I do not own an assault weapon, but

I do own some deadly weapons, and the Feds will only get those over My Dead Body.

[east texas lib]

4. Same old song...endless verses...

The narcotic attraction of the evil assault rifle scapegoat is just too powerful to resist.

[SteveM]

9. "narcotic attraction"? Not bad. I prefer "Zombie walk." (nt)

[TPaine7]

7. Knowledge is unnecessary

to legislate, pontificate, or rabble rouse for gun control.

In fact, knowledge is an impediment to the enemies of freedom.

[rdenney]

13. The SKS was the rifle used to kill deer hunters in MI a few years back...

WE need to get all military and military sytle rifles out of of hunters and other gunowners. The bloodbaths have to STOP!

[benEzra]

14. No, that was a Saiga, a Russian-made sporting rifle.

The SKS was the rifle used to kill deer hunters in MI a few years back

No, if you're thinking of the incident in which the Hmong hunter shot several other hunters after they supposedly called him names, then that was a Saiga, a Russian-made, civilian-only sporting rifle that has never been used by any military in the world. Initial news reports got the rifle confused with an SKS, but it wasn't.

I'm sure that if those hunters had been shot with a functionally identical Ruger Mini Thirty deer rifle, or a comparable .30-30 Winchester, the bullets would have just bounced off and those hunters would have been OK, right?

WE need to get all military and military sytle rifles out of of hunters and other gunowners.

Hand in your Remington 700 and Winchester Model 70, then, because both are more military-authentic than most "assault weapons." The Winchester Model 70 was the issue sniper rifle in Vietnam, the Remington M700 is currently used by the U.S. military in Iraq as the M24 and M40 sniper systems.



BTW, "assault weapons" are the most popular civilian target rifles and defensive carbines in the United States, and more of us lawfully and responsibly own them than hunt (4 out of 5 U.S. gun owners are nonhunters). You'd have an easier time trying to outlaw hunting.

The bloodbaths have to STOP!

The "bloodbaths" from small-caliber rifles with modern styling are a media fiction. Rifles as a class are the least misused of all firearms in the United States, and twice as many people are murdered with shoes and bare hands as with all rifles combined.



2006 data: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_20.html

Total murders.............................14,990..........100.00%
Handguns...................................7,795...........52.00%
Other weapons (non firearm, non edged).....2,158...........14.40%
Edged weapons..............................1,822...........12.15%
Firearms (type unknown)....................1,465............9.77%
Hands, fists, feet, etc......................833............5.56%
Shotguns.....................................481............3.21%
Rifles.......................................436............2.91%

[rdenney]

19. OK I will accept your explaination about the Saiga but in reading about it it seems to be very like

an SKS rifle although it has no bayonet. One concern that I have is if the Saiga can use magazines from an AK-47. The fact sheet I read says its based on the AK-47 rifle so I would be interested in knowing that. Its unfortunate that this hunter was so unstable and he is one reason why many of us want mental heath and drug/alchol abuse ivestigated before a person can own a firearm.

[benEzra]

20. The only thing the Saiga and SKS share is the caliber (7.62x39mm)

and original country of origin. Functionally, they are very different (the SKS uses a short-stroke gas piston, tilting bolt, has a milled receiver, etc.; the Saiga uses a long-stroke gas piston, rotating bolt, stamped receiver). There is some cosmetic resemblance, but not much. FWIW, 7.62x39mm is a ballistic twin of the .30-30 Winchester, a popular U.S. deer cartridge dating from the late 1800's.

Here is my wife's SKS, a very collectible 1952 Tula:



Here is a Saiga:



The standard Saiga cannot use AK-47 magazines, but you can legally convert one to do so if you replace enough imported parts with U.S.-made parts to satisfy the 18 USC 922(r) import classification requirements, which sets a limit on the number of imported parts that can be used.

[SteveM]

22. What difference would it have made if the weapon WAS an AK-47?...

Other than the fact it is marginally under-powered for deer hunting. Most folks who use auto-loaders for big-game hunting prefer much more powerful calibers, like .30-06, .270, 280, .308, etc. Would you ban these as well, even if they have Grade Three walnut and the owner's Dad's initials engraved in the receiver?

Mental health tests are -- ahem -- rife with abuse. What standard would you use? Who would do the judging?
What constitutes "drug/alcohol" abuse? Three or four beers? More than half a joint? Tests like these remind me of the literacy tests in the South so you could vote.

BTW, weren't these murders in Wisconsin?

[rdenney]

23. I have no problem with standard hunting rifles and shotguns. Its the high capacity of assualt weapon

type firearms that seem unnecessary to a hunting weapon. This Saiga holds ten rounds. Whatever happened to the idea of making one shot count? Also you may be correct that this hunter went wacko in WI but what difference would that make to the people he murdered?

[SteveM]

24. I have a semi-auto rifle which holds 10 rounds. Made in 1905...

The idea of "making one shot count" in hunting is commendable on its surface; however, a good hunter knows that there may be a follow-up shot. And believe me, if you hunt long enough, there will be. The capacity of most firearms you describe as "assault weapons" is determined by the detachable magazine, ten being the most popular (it is also most popular with semi-auto pistols).

I fail to see your concern about capacity. Have you ever seen on T.V. where some guerrilla fighter has a banana clip taped to another, upside down? This allows for doubling up limited-capacity clips (pull out and flip over.) Legislation aimed at limiting clip/magazine capacity does not address crime rates or other social maladies and in any case are easily overcome by those wishing to circumvent such laws.

[rdenney]

25. As I said in another thread, if you make the punishment harsh enough, most gun-owners obey the laws.

Possess a banned high capacity magazine?

Ten years in state prison, no parole.

Would you risk that kind of time in the joint?

Would your family allow you to ?

I doubt it.

[maxidivine]

26. Doesn't seem to be a worthwhile endeavor

to put such a harsh penalty on the ownership of something as innocuous as a magazine that can fit a certain arbitrary number of rounds. Doesn't seem to be a policy that would have any net benefits, would result in many otherwise trouble-free people getting railroaded in court by the already over zealous and (in my opinion) overfunded/staffed BATFE, then sent to prison, all on the taxpayers dime. Taxes that those people would now not be paying. We would lose people from our pool of taxpayers and gain people in our pool of tax-sucking prisoners.

Quite a drastic way to address a non-issue.

[SteveM]

27. But If I tape 2 together, would that violate the law? (nt)

[lepus]

29. And has been said before in previous threads also

Make common rifles illegal and make good citizens criminals will do nothing but help the GOP out.

The rifles are not the problems.

Make enough voting citizens criminals,, the people that made those laws will be returned to their non lawmaker status.

[benEzra]

28. You could buy 15-round civilian rifles in *1865*, and 30+ round rifles in the 1880's.

Yet rifles weren't a crime problem then, and they aren't now; twice as many people are murdered with shoes and bare hands as with all rifles combined.

You may not be aware of this, but the vast majority of gun owners are nonhunters; only 1 in 5 U.S. gun owners hunts. My "AK" is legal to hunt deer with here in NC with the 5-round hunting magazine, but like most gun owners, I'm a nonhunter; I shoot competitively (USPSA) with 20-rounders.


Hunting configuration (5-round hunting magazine, 4x24 scope):




Competition/HD configuration (20-round magazine, 1x Kobra collimator sight):




Just to clarify, that is a non-automatic civilian rifle (SAR-1), not a NFA Title 2/Class III restricted automatic AK-47.

[virginia mountainman]

15. WOW...how dense... Some refuse to learn the political costs of such laws

Practically ALL, sporting firearms, are based on Military rifles....

Even Lever action 30-30's where invented as military arms.

Congratulations!!!! You just royally pissed off MILLIONS and MILLIONS of Americans with that sort of legislation...

And now, do you know what will happen to the rest of you legislative package, like health care, and the Iraq War???

It wont matter to you, because their is a HIGH likelihood, and history has shown, that... YOU, and most of those that support such a law, would be ran out of town on a rail, and the fastest way of getting you out of power, is to vote for your opposition..

1994 all over again...

Look at all the bad laws that where passed, once we Democrats got our asses tossed out in 1994.

Sometimes, dealing with anti-civil rights people is like teaching Shrub how to read....

[bossy22]

16. no, we dont

[bossy22]

17. another fallacy

is to believe that since one type of weapon was used to commit a crime- that means that type is the "best" type for that crime....

in fact the VT study stated that a revolver (which is 140 year old technology) would have been just as deadly as the modern semi-automatic used by Cho to commit the shooting

its the law of unintended consequences- you ban handguns, and criminals may turn to rifles- more powerful, more deadly weapons than handguns

[virginia mountainman]

18. That is EXACTLY what happened with the 68 GCA...

They banned the cheap, poorly made, imported "Saturday Night Specials" revolvers..

So, the Crooks started using Smith and Wesson's, and Colts..You know the GOOD guns, that go "BANG" every time the trigger is pulled..Unlike the cheap poorly made revolvers that where common use by criminals at the time.

[gorfle]

21. Rifiles do not cause bloodbaths.

WE need to get all military and military sytle rifles out of of hunters and other gunowners. The bloodbaths have to STOP!

As BenEzra posted, all rifles, let alone military and military-style rifles, are hardly ever used to commit homicides or other crimes.

All rifles account for roughly half as many homicides as hands and feet.

There is no bloodbath to stop.