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U.S. Should Focus On Stemming Gun Trafficking, Mexican Officials Say

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rdenney Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 03:57 AM
Original message
U.S. Should Focus On Stemming Gun Trafficking, Mexican Officials Say
Edited on Thu May-29-08 04:05 AM by rdenney
U.S. Should Focus On Stemming Gun Trafficking, Mexican Officials Say


May 27, 2008


Reacting to a vote by U.S. lawmakers to trim an aid package for the drug war, Mexico's deputy attorney general, Jose Luis Santiago Vasconcelos, said an alternative would be to keep the cash in the United States and use it to curb illegal arms trafficking across the border.

"Some of us were talking, remarking that, well, this (sum of money) is all very well, but why don't we tell the Americans they could spend it on their (border security forces) to stop the flow of arms to Mexico," Santiago Vasconcelos said in remarks on local radio distributed by his office on Saturday.

Indeed, Vasconcelos claims that 97 percent of the guns used by the drug gangs come from the U.S. That’s 97%!

One of the sad ironies we recall of going into Mexico (and Canada) as a tourist is the presence of signs that indicate that bringing firearms into those two nations is prohibited.

But obviously, the gun industry in the U.S. is "looking the other way" and making money off of the drug cartel battles in Mexico which also spill across the border into our nation. Mexico is pleading with us to stop guns from the U.S. from entering into their nation.

More at:

http://www.gunguys.com/#post-3019
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Missed this one: Gunfire shakes mellow Folklife Festival (Seattle)
Sarah Thorsnes was fresh with the glow of her pending graduation from the University of Washington as she, her boyfriend and their puppy sat down near Seattle Center's International Fountain on a warm Saturday evening to take in the Northwest Folklife Festival.

Then, in a flash: Two men grappled with each other, stumbled through the crowd and crashed into the couple. There was a crack of gunfire and Thorsnes' puppy bolted. Thorsnes gave chase.

Then she looked down to see a hole in her jeans — and a lot of her own blood. "I didn't feel the pain until I was on the ground," said Thorsnes, 21.

A stray bullet apparently fired during the fight between the two men Saturday evening pierced the forearm of Thorsnes' boyfriend, Joshua Penaluna, before lodging in her right thigh.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004438622_folklife26m.html

To top matters off:

Police say the suspect actually has a concealed weapons permit and was carrying the gun in an ankle holster.

http://www.king5.com/topstories/stories/NW_052608WAB_folklife_shooting_monday_SW.310239db.html
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rdenney Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Shooter has mental health and substance abuse issues' AND a gun permit?
Well we all know that if we were all as well armed as this gun nut we would all be safer, right? :sarcasm:
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. How many is that now, rdenney? Let's make the festival "Gun Free!"
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rdenney Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Sorry, but I didn't come up with that "gun and drug free zone" nonsense.
Edited on Thu May-29-08 04:23 PM by rdenney
But the shooter will be spending quality time trying not to drop the soap in jail, now wont he ? :party:
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DrCory Donating Member (862 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-02-08 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Are you an advocate of prison rape?
The "party" smiley next to your comment would seem to suggest so.
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maxidivine Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. guy is dumb, and a drug addict,
but I don't understand your absolute joy at the prospect of someone being anally violated.
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I keep telling y'all, but you won't listen
antis have real problems, just look at the fantasies and wish-it-would-come-true scenarios they come up with.



CCW will make the streets run with blood,
gun-loons always murder their families,
no children in a gunowner's home will live past 6yrs of age,

and the ever so reliable: gun-worshipers have penis envy.


Antis should be registered with NICS.
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pipoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. I can see how one could be alarmed
by the claims of the stellar, historically honest Mexican government, especially law enforcement.

However, I do agree we should quit sending massive aid to Mexico and should spend that money to enforce the border stopping all illegal crossing. If they interdict some guns/drugs in the process great!

The claims in the past by the Mexican government have been that the favored weapons of the Mexican drug lords are automatic rifles and that those autos are coming from the US. Since those claims aren't even logical, I see that they have quit making the claim of automatic arms (the weapons of choice of Mexican outlaw gangs) coming from the US. Now the ridicules 97% claim is all that is left. I might not argue a claim that 97% of semi-autos in Mexico have American origins (though I still have reasonable doubts).

I will add that posting opinions veiled as "facts" from the gun guyz carries as much weight here as posting "facts", stories, and opinions from the NRA.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. That's 97%!! With a number like that, there must be a study?
Mexico has not only a long border with the U.S., but a long one with Guatemala. This latter country has a long history of civil unrest, as does Nicaragua, as does El Salvador. These countries were supplied vast quantities of weapons by the U.S. (through famously circuitous routes), as well as by other powers with a stake in the "outcomes" of these conflicts. So, where would powerful drug cartels want to get a cache of weapons -- especially full-auto? The U.S. and its border security or from Guatemala? Further, would the cartels ignore Mexico's long, long coasts? Don't think so.

Until we have something more than a Mexican official's comments (via the gunguys), I continue to think that most of these drug cartel arms are flowing from points of least resistance and greatest supply: "South" of the border of Mexico.
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Indy Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
6. I don't live near a boarder
So I have a simple question.

Which country does the boarder inspection?

It would seem that the inspection would be done by the country that is being entered.

In which case, it would be Mexico's job to ensure those crossing into Mexico are in compliance with Mexican law.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. Good read on the real problem re: Mexico, the drug cartels, and failed U.S. policy...
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/billmcclellan/story/643247EDB3F578C28625744C001AB995?OpenDocument

Corporations or cartels? A choice of ink over blood
By Bill McClellan
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
05/18/2008

One week after Edgar Millan Gomez was killed in Mexico City, Anheuser-Busch announced it was giving up the right to import Grolsch, a Dutch beer. "The time is right to end our importation," said David A. Peacock, vice president of marketing for Anheuser-Busch. Analysts said the announcement was no surprise. In February, London-based SABMiller, the parent of Miller Brewing, bought the Dutch brewery that makes Grolsch. So it made no sense for Anheuser-Busch to use its considerable muscle to import a beer that is now owned by its chief rival.

Perhaps you're wondering what that has to do with the death of Millan Gomez. He was Mexico's federal police chief, and he was gunned down outside of his home by assassins who are assumed to have been working for a drug cartel. The cartels have been targeting government officials because the government has been trying to crack down on the cartels. The government is making this effort because the violence between the cartels has gotten out of hand. Authorities estimate more than 2,500 people have been killed in the last year as the cartels have battled over the control of the cocaine traffic from South America to the U.S. In other words, importation and exportation rights.

There was a time when we had cartels fighting over the booze trade. Perhaps the most famous booze cartel leader was Al Capone. In 1929, some members of his cartel killed seven members of a cartel headed by Bugs Moran. That incident became known as the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. The dispute that led to the massacre had to do with importation rights from Detroit. The Capone cartel had the rights to whiskey from Detroit, but the Moran cartel had been hijacking some shipments. Largely because of incidents like that, the feds made a real effort to stamp out the booze cartels. But they couldn't. There was too much demand. People liked to drink. Call it a weakness, if you want, but as long as people wanted to buy booze, somebody was going to provide it. For a long time, it was guys like Capone and Moran. Eventually, law-abiding people got tired of the killing and the bribery. Prohibition was ended. In essence, we traded Al Capone for August Busch. So now, when there is a conflict about importation rights, we have an announcement from a vice president of marketing.

...

Because these drugs are flowing through Mexico, that country runs the risk of becoming a narco-state. The illicit drug trade creates such immense profits that public officials can be bought or assassinated. Plata o plomo. Silver or lead. Millan Gomez was the 10th federal police official to be murdered in the past two months. The week before he was killed, Roberto Velasco Bravo was killed. He was the head of the organized crime division in the public security ministry. Local police officials are being targeted, too. Earlier this year, the commander of public safety for Juarez was murdered, and before him, the police chief of Tecate was murdered. On and on it goes. It is always clear who gets the lead. It is not so clear who gets the silver.

(Continued at link)


Our idiotic Prohibition-era approach to the drug issue gives the Mexican cartels $40 billion annually in tax-free income. Think you could buy a few weapons on the international arms black market for that? That is more than the entire defense budgets of the majority of countries on this planet.

Here's something that the gun-ban-lobbyists in the OP didn't tell you---Mexican drug cartels are using real NFA Title 2/Class III restricted AK-47's and RPG's, and those are NOT SOLD in the United States. I would not be surprised if most of the handguns in northern Mexico come from the U.S., but the machineguns and RPG's used in the recent border shootouts most certainly are not.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-29-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. But 100% of the violent drug gang members came from Mexico
:rofl:
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enfield collector Donating Member (821 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-31-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. gunguys is a brady front group and has no credibilty here. if the mexican
.gov is concerned they should enforce the border.
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Xela Donating Member (787 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Mexican firearm law
Mexico already has an absurd amount of anti-gun legislation and the reality is that they can't stop illegal trafficking themselves so they try to shift blame on their neighbors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Mexico

The problem is not firearms, it is more complex, this guy is trying to pull a smokescreen.

Xela
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-01-08 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. If there is a problem with illegal smuggling over the border then maybe they should build a fence.
Maybe Mexico will pull out of NAFTA and secure the border. That would stop much of the illegal smuggling.

David
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Longtooth Donating Member (303 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. Mexico should
help us fund building the wall.
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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. Let me get this straight...
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 08:16 PM by virginia mountainman
If America, is the source of all these weapons, death and violance...

Why are Mexican nationals, FLEEING the Weapons, Death and Violence, by MOVING to America???


One prominent attorney, who asked not to be identified for security reasons, drove from his office directly to the border with a police escort after being notified that kidnappers planned to kill him for speaking out against the crime wave.


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-exodus7-2008jun07,0,7929819.story?page=2
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