Chicago lays out handgun legal strategy

[davepc]

The City of Chicago is planning to defend its handgun ban with a highly technical legal argument that some law scholars say isn't likely to fly.

Mara Georges, the city's chief lawyer, appeared before aldermen yesterday pledging to "vigorously" defend Chicago's 1982 handgun prohibition.

The city is currently facing two suits in district court challenging that ban in the aftermath of a June 26 Supreme Court decision that threw out a handgun ban in Washington, D.C.

In that case, the court ruled for the first time that the Second Amendment provides a right for individuals to bear arms.

Georges says the city is likely to argue that the court's decision applies only in Washington, a federal territory, and not to the states.

"The opinion does not say that the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms applies to states or municipalities," says Georges.

...

http://www.chitowndailynews.org/Chicago_news/Chicago_lays_out_handgun_legal_strategy,15284

[SteveM]

1. Strange how Chitowndailynews can't bring themselves to say: "14th Amendment "

"Over the years, those protections have been extended to the states under a legal theory known as the doctrine of incorporation."

Uh, yeah, back in the days of the modern Civil Rights era, we called that the 14th Amendment, which was cited in the media about as often as Kentucky Fried Chicken. Now, the lead legal explanation is the more "obscure" doctrine of incorporation which underwrites the 14th and the many pieces of major legislation and court rulings which secured voting rights, public accommodations, due process, right to counsel, right to privacy...

Why call for a flashlight on a sunny day?

[virginia mountainman]

2. looks like it will be a slam dunk for incorporation..

Looks like we will need to send BOTH Mayor Fenty, and Mayor Daley "thank you" notes when all this is over with.

I have a feeling, when all is said and done, those two will have done more to farther gun rights in the US than just about anyone else in the past decade.

With the exception of Mrs Fienstein of course.

Just imagine, as Democrats, where we would be today, if she had not "awoken the sleeping grizzly bear" that gun owners are today.

[Boomer 50]

3. Try more than anyone in history.....

barring the Founding Fathers themselves. Fenty and Daley are both going to be looked upon as the most unlikely heroes in the 2nd Amendment fight that there could be. The upside to this is that they may guarantee that we control Congress and the White House for the next few decades. The Republicans really fucked up by not pursuing the repeals of gun laws. Democrats can now claim this as strategy to fix the issue once and for all.

Hopefully, we'll see this take off.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

4. Democrats will repeal gun laws?

I want some of what you're smokin'
:rofl:

I think the best we can hope for is Democrats just stay away from the issue, don't pass any more gun laws, no so-called "assault" weapon ban, no closing of what Brady calls the gun-show loop-hole.

I don't expect Democrats to roll things back to the 1930's.

Prez Obama will sign any gun ban that hits his desk. Hopefully no gun ban will get that far. He and I don't see eye-to-eye on that issue.

:hi:

[pipoman]

5. I took something different

from what Boomer said. While I don't think anyone will live to hear Fenty and Daley claiming their almost certain fight (and defeat) to be strategy to strengthen the 2nd, I do think that the pro-2nd contingent of Democratic Senators and Congress Critters is both growing and gaining seniority. Keep in mind that many of the law makers were elected by constituents who also supported/passed CCW in their states, they are either pro 2nd or know that gun control support is counter to the will of those constituents. I hope for and expect a stronger, more outspoken than ever before, pro-2nd presence at this years convention. Hopefully that presence will convince President Obama to campaign with promises not to sign any gun control legislation while president instead leaving this issue to states and municipalities to determine within the Constitution. Gun control has been steadily moving toward being an urban/self proclaimed intellectual vs. rural/blue collar issue more than a partisan issue. When this happens the millstone of gun control will finally be removed from the neck of the Democratic party and we can move beyond the stigma of Dems are gun grabbers which is a win for the party. Just my $.02 (and hope).

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

7. I hope you're right about a Dem congress

that enough Democratic Representatives and Senators respect the 2d amendment rights enough to not pass any restrictive legislation.

I can't imagine Prez Obama vetoing any gun control law that makes it to his desk. Same with McCain, if some unimaginably bad election results put him in office.

If Congress can't hold the line on gun control, I imagine the Democratic majority is short-lived.

But I don't see them rolling back any currently existing laws.

[virginia mountainman]

6. LOL Yep...

By way of their "overboard" defend it to the last dollar, to hell with the national consequences for their cause approach..

Just think, if Mayor Fenty had just backed down, in the Heller case, before it went to the Supreme Court??

We would NOT, have had the "individual rights' decision. We would not be "dealing with Chicago" right now.

Thanks to Mayor Fenty, and his crusade to the bitter end, we got a MAJOR victory, instead of a minor one of just allowing handguns in the law abiding DC Citizen's home.

Daley, like Fenty, is so certain of there "ultimate victory" and the "righteousness of their crusade" that they will push the issue all the way, no matter the finial costs.

Fenty and the rest of the anti-civil rights contingent, never once thought to "cut their losses" and loosen the gun ban, before it went to the supreme court, which would have made the whole case "go away"

Mayor Daley, is too used to getting his way, to ever back down, even tho he has so little hope of winning, so.....here we go again!!

So, in a way, Fenty, and Daley, by their very heavy-handed approach, are proving to be a gun owner's friend..

[aspergris]

14. likely

we would have a test case from chicago in that case

"Just think, if Mayor Fenty had just backed down, in the Heller case, before it went to the Supreme Court??

We would NOT, have had the "individual rights' decision. We would not be "dealing with Chicago" right now.
"

this right was ripe for a decision

[Boomer 50]

9. I know...

Our party leaders are, and pardon the pun, gun shy of any pro-2nd Amendment legislation. Here is the ultimate opportunity to shut the Republicans down for decades and the Democrat leaders will most likely piss it away.

I can only hope that someone will read this board high up enough to realize that we can win if gun control is put to rest as it so deservedly needs to be.

[jody]

8. There is still a remote possibility that Obama will take the pledge before 4 Nov. to veto every bill

that comes to him that infringes upon the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms for self-defense and other lawful purposes.

If he doesn't do that with Heller the law of the land and his statement "I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms", he will be the target of attack ads.

With one press conference and one simple promise, Obama can put RKBA completely off limits as an issue in the last days of the campaign.

That would not only help Obama, but it could mean the difference in congressional races that have been Republican in recent years.

[jeepnstein]

10. I wish it were so.

Obama is a product of his environment, Chicago politics. I just can't see him being willing to take a step like you propose. He'd be alienating his very powerful base and that would be a risky move. Most politicians don't go that far by being risk takers. Personally, I think this risk is worth it because it would really knock the wind out of the sails of part of the GOP's base.

I suspect the advisers he's surrounded with would not even entertain such a move. By the time a candidate gets to this level he is surrounded by a wall of people who work very hard to not let anything get through to their candidate that is contrary to their personal agendas. I've seen it ruin good politicians and I've seen it save guys from themselves, it just depends on the luck of the draw.

The gun issue is toxic. We need to stay as far away from it as possible if we wish to keep a strong Democrat Party.

[jody]

11. Perhaps I should have used "infinitesimal probability" rather than "remote possibility". n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

16. tough sell.............

I have heard Obama say he "....supports the Second Amendment BUT...."

He is completely unable to convince ME he means it and I am on his side. I suspect that after all the ammunition he gave THEM with the "bitter gun-owner" crack, it will sound about as hollow as Charlie Manson telling the parole board he got religion.

[DonP]

12. Daley has been "leaning" on the other gun ban suburbs ... and failed.

His increasing level of public anger and "outrage" on this has been exacerbated by the fact that Wilmette, Morton Grove and now Evanston are dropping their handgun bans rather than run up a big legal bills and have to answer to the voters about why they spent the money fighting a SCOTUS decision.

Daley had his legal team contact all the suburbs prior to and right after the Heller decision to offer Chicago's legal and financial support if they chose to fight for their existing gun bans. They all turned him down, recognizing that the Heller decision, unlike Daley's fantasy legal world, did apply directly to them as well as DC.

The only suburb still holding out is Oak Park and it's only a matter of time. But no suburban mayeor or city council would trust Daley's promises anyway after what he pulled on Bensonville to expand O'Hare airport. He annexed a big chunk of an independent suburb, had homes condemned and some already torn down, all so he can expand his airport and empire and to keep Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. from getting a 3rd major airport built near Chicago's South Side (and acquiring a lot of political capital at the same time).

Daley will spend millions (again) fighting the decision. Why not, it's not his money anyway and he has 24/7 armed security for him and his family.

His latest straw grasp, ... that if they lose the ban firefighters will be endangered by citizens with guns in their homes, is almost comical. One of my Son-in-laws is a Chicago Fire Fighter and I asked him how often they have had issues with citizens shooting at them when they come to a fire. He said about once every five years or so somebody else may take a pot shot more at the cops or the fire truck in some neighborhoods but no Chicago fire fighter has been shot by the people they are trying to save in over 50 years that anyone can remember.

[aspergris]

13. "Chicago lays out Plan to Thwart Constitution and Rule of Law" is more appropriate title n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

15. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

In the 1860s, the 14th amendment was drafted and ratified with the aim of preventing Democrats from taking guns away from black people. 150 years later, what do you see in DC, Chicago, Detroit and NYC? Democrats taking guns away from black people, still pretending the 14th amendment doesn't exist.