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VPC rolls their ball for hearing on “Money, Guns, and Drugs: Are U.S. Inputs Fueling Violence

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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 04:32 PM
Original message
VPC rolls their ball for hearing on “Money, Guns, and Drugs: Are U.S. Inputs Fueling Violence
on the U.S./Mexico Border?” See VPC testimony March 12, 2009
Immediate Steps the U.S. Government Can Take

Measures that Can Be Implemented Without Legislation

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) could immediately begin to strictly enforce the existing ban on the importation of semiautomatic assault weapons.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Expand import restrictions to include other dangerous “non-sporting” firearms.
* * * * * * * * * * * *

ATF could be more aggressive in identifying and sanctioning Federal Firearms License holders who are the sources of high volumes of guns trafficked to Mexico.

For example:
● Target border-state dealers for yearly compliance inspections.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

● Be more aggressive in revoking the licenses of dealers found to be knowingly
supplying Mexican traffickers.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

● Require licensees who conduct business at gun shows to notify the Attorney
General of such activity.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Measures That Would Require Legislation

Repeal the current restrictions on release of ATF crime gun trace data (“Tiahrt
amendment”).

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Implement an effective federal assault weapons ban.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Implement restrictions on 50 caliber sniper rifles.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Extend the Brady background check system to the “secondary market.”

We know Attorney General Eric Holder wants to renew the Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) and supports efforts to ban handguns as well.

Obama has nominated Seattle Police Chief R. Gil Kerlikowske for Director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy.

Kerlikowske is president of the Major Cities Police Chiefs Association and actively worked with the Scary Brady Bunch aka Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and VPC (Vigorously Protecting Criminals aka Violence Policy Center) to ensure criminals can pursue their jobs safely by disarming law-abiding citizens who wish to exercise their natural, inherent, inalienable/unalienable right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.

The Joyce Foundation’s board of directors provided several million dollars to fund VPC gun-grabber efforts.

We pro-RKBA Dems should not worry about Holder and Kerlikowske because I have a solemn promise that really counts, "I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe in people's lawful right to bear arms. I will not take your shotgun away. I will not take your rifle away. I won't take your handgun away."
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-12-09 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wait, Mexican drug cartels
are using $5k .50 BMG rifles?!?
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dairydog91 Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. They've certainly got the money...
Edited on Fri Mar-13-09 11:40 AM by dairydog91
...but I'm not sure what special use they'd have for light 50s. Hunting rifles (7mm Magnum, .338 Winchester, .308 Winchester, .30-06 all come to mind) would give plenty of "sniper" performance while remaining easier on the budget. Plus, if they have a need, many a Mexican quartermaster would supply them with much heavier stuff. The Mexican Army has a smorgasbord of anti-armor stuff, ranging from M-72 LAWs to FGM-148s (Why we sell this stuff to a disintegrating nation is beyond my comprehension). Still, I'm not sure if even the most deranged gun-banner could claim that a .50 Barrett is a better AT weapon than a Javelin missile.

Edit: Spelling and examples

Edit2: If you aren't up on anti-armor weapons, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R3oVOcKEQo">here's a video of a Javelin missile being tested. Yes, we sell these things to Mexico, whose drug cartels appear to being toting military hardware directly snatched or purchased from the army.
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X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. *nod* seems silly
I wonder if there are any stats on crimes committed in the wars between the gangs and the government- I'd think there'd be more close-in combat than sniping, anyway.

Tacking the .50 into this press release sounds like an 'oh yah, this too!' measure.
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dairydog91 Donating Member (520 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. All I've ever heard of are close combat incidents.
Edited on Fri Mar-13-09 12:12 PM by dairydog91
And many of these involved weapons that almost certainly were stolen/bought from military depots.

Here's some more infantry small-arms stuff available from the Mexican Army Arms Bazaar:
FX-05 - Assault Rifle
HK G3 - Battle Rifle
M4A1 - Assault Rifle
FN P90 - Submachinegun
HK MP5 - Submachinegun
M2 - Heavy Machinegun
FN MAG - General Purpose Machinegun
HK 21 - General Purpose Machinegun
M60 - General Purpose Machinegun
M249 - Light Machinegun
HK MSG90 - Sniper Rifle
M24 - Sniper Rifle
Barrett M82 - Anti-material Rifle

If my local gun store had that, plus boatloads of grenades and rocket launchers, I'd literally live inside the store.

Edit: Plus the Mexican Army already has Barretts, so the cartels don't need to go to eeeevil American gun dealers to get at them if they want them. And with the cartels' massive cash flow, they could probably afford to ship in stuff from the former Soviet states if the need arose.

Edit2: Might I add at this point that without the War on Drugs, the cartels wouldn't have anything to sell at obscene profit margins in order to make this kind of money? Face it, a guy with a bazillion dollar budget who wants to get guns is going to get guns, regardless of whether you block an avenue or not.
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. They ARE using the FN-P90 a lot for assassination do to the
armor penetrating characteristics but that ammo is NOT available in the U.S. There have been a number of straw purchases in the U.S. to supply handguns to the cartels but so far I have not seen any evidence that the long guns are coming from the U.S. though. I believe that the long weapons are coming from the Mexican Army themselves. I have not evidence to this but then again there is no evidence that the long guns are coming from the U.S. either.
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Furyataurus Donating Member (142 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Actually.....
FN does have the AP rounds here in the states for L.E. use only. Not to mention the L.E. agency has a good deal of paper work to fill out to even get the AP rounds and the AP rounds are stored in some port under constant guard IIRC.

On another note I read somewhere where the SS190 round is NOT an AP round as defined by the ATF! Since it uses an Alu. core. and that's not what the ATF defines as a metal that's armor piercing?????
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You are correct.
The SS190 round itself is NOT an AP round by two points of law. The construction is wrong as you point out but here is another interesting point on that law. .22 and smaller are specifically stated to be non AP no matter what the construction.
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Furyataurus Donating Member (142 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Found it.
Here it is:

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. Interesting, Brady admitting they are failing
The whole thing works from the assumption that these things can be done with out legislative action, which they have been woefully bad at for almost 15 years now.

It's almost like Brady is throwing in the towel and admitting that "no legislator worth a damn will listen to us anymore so BATFE try these sneak-arounds to give us what we want".

Again, how long will the Joyce Foundation continue to pour sand down this losing rat hole? These guys can't even keep a Blog open and running for more than a day or two.
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Hoopla Phil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. This has the same veracity as the argument that Virginia is responsible
Edited on Fri Mar-13-09 12:22 PM by Hoopla Phil
for all the guns in New York city. BS!!
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. As a federal firearms licensee, I'd like to point out one thing
Edited on Fri Mar-13-09 12:41 PM by slackmaster
Licensees are already required to report to the AG any unlawful activity they see other licensees engaged in.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-13-09 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Excellent point and IMO we pro-RKBA types regardless of political orientation should also report
suspected unlawful activity.
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Caliman73 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-14-09 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Good on you
I think that revoking someone's license for knowingly providing firearms for export to Mexico is a nothing penalty. As far as I know firearms are illegal in Mexico. Unless the firearms are going government to government, which would obviously not involve a private FFL, we know that sales to Mexico are already illegal. Plus, since the average Mexican citizen cannot really afford firearms, we can assume private sales are for the cartels. Thus I think that any FFL selling for straw purchase where we can logically assume they are being exported, should receive long prison sentences.
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