Local views clash on carrying guns in public (CA)

[davepc]

The guns hooked on their hips are a symbol of freedom and constitutional rights for some. To others, they represent a conundrum cloaked in fear and the unknown.

A national "Open Carry Movement" has landed in Redlands, bringing local attention to those who openly carry a firearm to exercise their second amendment rights.

Other law enforcement officials in San Bernardino County say they are unaware of their officers encountering open carriers, but some are passing out pamphlets and briefing the rank-and-file members on how to handle them.

State law allows adults who are not prohibited by law to visibly carry an unloaded gun in public places, excluding school zones, government buildings, state and national parks and secured areas like airports.

Police are permitted only to ensure the weapon is not loaded. They cannot run the gun's serial number, ask for the carrier's identification or detain them.

...

http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_11913496

[Double T]

1. We must preserve our second amendment rights..........

at all costs. The founding fathers know/knew what's best.

[RC]

2. Why are so many so paranoid?

[SteveM]

16. LOVE it. This Cartoon summarizes the gun-control movement...

First, it shows an assault rifle firing like a full-auto (well, once you have screwed up your definitions, you can always rely on what's left of MSM to cover your ass), then it features a talking/thinking firearm firing on its own -- precisely what the gun-controllers believe guns really do when they kill. I'm sure habitual murderers & psychos feel vindicated.

[david13]

3. If there were more open carry, then people

would get over the paranoia over open carry.
But I sure don't like the unloaded idea. That means useless, and then anybody knows that.
dc

[yagotme]

13. Unloaded gun per JW:

Lawyer: "So tell me, when you stepped out, was this revolver loaded and cocked?"

Marshall Cogburn: "Well, a revolver that's unloaded and cocked ain't good fer nothin'"

[AlinPA]

15. Someone walking down the street with a shotgun might un-nerve some people and

it might take a while to get used to that.

[spin]

4. Oceanside Police Department Training Alert...

There is an “Open Carry” movement in California. Members of the movement participated
in a recent beach clean up in San Diego. During the clean up, open carry advocates wore
handguns exposed on their belts. Some also carried exposed magazines or speed loaders.
The purpose of this memorandum is to discuss relevant law and general tactical
considerations when encountering a person carrying a concealable firearm exposed on their
person.

It is NOT illegal in the State of California to carry a concealable firearm, generally
meaning a handgun, exposed on your person in a public place, as long as the firearm is not
loaded. A firearm is considered loaded when an unexpended “shell or cartridge” is seated
in the breach, port, cylinder, magazine, or clip and is in a position to be chambered and/or
fired. A firearm is NOT considered loaded if the magazine, clip, loader, shell or cartridge
is carried on the belt or person. It is not illegal to have a loaded magazine or speed
loader in close proximity to a holstered weapon.

*********snip********

Members of the Open Carry movement appear to be exercising the full scope of the laws
availability to carry concealable firearms exposed on their persons. Officers need to be
fully knowledgeable and tactically prepared to safely and legally address these individuals.
You should expect contact with open carry advocates to be monitored and recorded. Prior
police contacts have been recorded on audio and video.

Safety should be the primary concern when making contact. Contact and cover
protocols should be fully utilized. The contact officer should give clear direction to the
armed individual. He or she should be told to raise his/her hands above their head (away
from the weapon) and not to move. He or she will then be told that the weapon will be
inspected. Using contact and cover tactics the weapon will be retrieved and inspected. If
the weapon is unloaded, it will be returned and the contact ended. If it is loaded,
justification will exist to arrest for a violation of PC 12031. If the weapon is not loaded, the
detention must end after inspection, absent additional facts to justify a prolonged detention.
underlining mine
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/carry/Oceanside-OpenCarry_training_memo-2009-03-12.pdf

[slackmaster]

5. Poster from Open Carry meeting in San Diego 2/28

[davepc]

6. These paranoids are obviously terrorizing the community.

[Furyataurus]

8. MY GOD!!!!!!

Look at all those people absolutely TERRIFIED by these gun nuts open carrying!!!!! That was sarcasm for those with no sense of humor.

[virginia mountainman]

9. ROFLMAO!!!!!

Great one!

[Tim01]

7. Does anybody have stats on how many criminals carry concealed?

It should make an interesting comparison for people who are freaked out by ordinary folks who open carry.

[slackmaster]

10. I think pretty much any criminal who uses a firearm carries it concealed

:hi:

[raimius]

11. Makes sense

Unless those criminals are in Alaska or Vermont, they'd need a license to carry concealed.
I'm going to make a wild guess that most criminals don't go through the proceedures to legally acquire a license, either because it costs time and money, or they would be denied the permit based on past crimes.

[Abq_Sarah]

12. We have open carry

Here, for unloaded weapons. Personally, I don't see the point since you lose any tactical advantage if the criminal knows you have an unloaded weapon. Kind of paints a target on you.

I do agree that the public at large could use a little education concerning firearms. It is highly unlikely that a criminal will walk around with a firearm properly seated in a holster.

[Tim01]

14. I agree.

But I don't have anything against people who open carry.

Stupid law fun fact.
In Va in is illegal to have a concealed weapon where alcohol is served. But open carry is legal in places where alcohol is served. So if you go to get some food in a place that serves alcohol you have to un-conceal your gun.
Just what I want, all the drunks can see my gun. Perfect.

[SteveM]

17. Open carry laws which are in existence are for rather prosaic reasons:

(1) carrying a firearm to your car;
(2) carrying a firearm from your car to the range, hunting locale, gunsmith, etc.; and
(3) otherwise exposing your gun on your own property (cleaning, dry-snapping practice, sighting-in, etc.).

When I was a kid growing up in Gainesville, Florida, I remember folks carrying rifles/shotguns walking the streets on the Courthouse square in order to get to the repair & hardware shops there at that time. Usually, the action was open with a red shop cloth tied around it.