Big surprise, AK-47 NOT used in Oakland shooting

[Furyataurus]

Editorial: Renew U.S. ban on assault weapons


Mercury News Editorial

Posted: 03/29/2009 08:00:00 PM PDT


Police have yet to determine how Lovelle Mixon, a parolee with a lengthy criminal record, got his hands on the handgun and the SKS rifle he used to kill four Oakland police officers on that grim Saturday afternoon just over a week ago. But the horror of the slayings drives home the need to enforce and enhance gun-control laws throughout the nation.

For starters, Congress must bring back the national ban on 19 types of military-style weapons it enacted in 1994, with the leadership of Sen. Dianne Feinstein, but allowed to expire.

The inexpensive SKS is a semi-automatic carbine designed in the Soviet Union. Unlike its successor, the AK-47, it is not classified as an assault weapon. No, the ban would not have prevented this massacre and will not absolutely prevent others like it in the future. But it will over time reduce the ready availability of some extremely dangerous weapons. More important, it will begin to change the culture from one of glorifying the possession of a military-style arsenal to one of responsible gun ownership.

An estimated 70 police officers are killed each year by criminals, though rarely with the sweep of the Oakland tragedy. A study by the Violence Policy Center estimates that one in five of those slayings involves assault weapons. The speed of gunfire makes it harder for officers to react.

California has some of the tightest gun control laws of any state. Feinstein pushed the federal assault weapon ban through Congress by the slimmest of margins but, since it expired in 2004, has not been able to get it renewed.

President Bush said he supported renewal but did not take an active role, dooming its passage. There may be more hope now. Attorney General Eric Holder said last week that the Obama administration supports reinstituting the ban because drug cartels in Mexico are shopping in U.S. gun stores for their high-powered weapons.

But other leaders in Washington are showing less courage in the face of the gun lobby, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who told reporters she favors enforcing the laws already on the books. A group of Democrats in Congress have announced they won't support the ban, most likely fearing political retaliation.

The National Rifle Association is mobilizing to block any weapons ban. It estimates that semi-automatic weapons account for more than 15 percent of the 250 million firearms owned by Americans. And the FBI has reported a nearly 50 percent increase in gun sales since Obama took office, probably out of fear of stricter laws. So even if Feinstein succeeds in reviving the ban, it will take years to have an effect, as guns are traded privately or stolen.

The senseless deaths of the four Oakland officers were heartbreaking — a shocking reminder of the dangers borne by police officers every day. Most police officials believe the assault weapons ban will make their work and their communities safer. They're right.

http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_12016511

[onehandle]

1. Sounds like the assault weapon ban needs to be expanded.

Thanks for pointing out the weakness of the law.

Cheap foreign semi-automatic cop killer guns. Check.

[slackmaster]

2. The SKS is a rugged, reliable, and reasonably accurate rifle

With a scope or even improved iron sights it is suitable for hunting small to medium-sized game and varmints. It's also a reasonable choice for self-defense. I have a Chinese one that I bought in 1989. I've fired several thousand rounds through it, and it has never failed to function in any way.

It does not have a pistol grip, flash suppressor, or folding stock, and does not accept detachable magazines. It is loaded either one round at a time or from stripper clips, from the top. The standard magazine holds 10 rounds. Five-round replacements are available for compliance with hunting codes.

Please explain how you would distingush between "assault" type firearms and ones that function the same but you would not regard as "bad".

The Devil is in the details. Stigmatize too many firearms as "bad", and you guarantee bad political fallout.

Cheap foreign semi-automatic cop killer guns.

That is not IMO a constructive way to look at the problem. The real issue is cop killer people.

BTW - Right now you ban proponents have nothing to expand. Your 10-year experiment from 1994-2004 failed to produce measurable results. If you were really sincere about wanting to reduce firearm homicides, the most logical choice would be to pursue restrictions on handguns. But the anti-gun movement has figured out that is a political non-starter; so off they go exploiting and perpetuating peoples' ignorance about military-looking weapons.

[onehandle]

4. I was just throwing a little gasoline on the original op's glee at it not being one particular gun.

I think the assault ban is bad policy and needs to be abandoned for smarter controls.

I do have one suggestion that will make heads spin in this forum. Ban all gun and ammo imports.

This is America. Why shouldn't we buy American when buying one of our most American icons? The gun.

[slackmaster]

5. As a collector of weapons used in both World Wars, I object

I like my Mosin-Nagants, Mausers, Lee-Enfield, etc. very much.

[onehandle]

6. I mean new guns, not antique guns.

Do we make bad guns in America?

[slackmaster]

7. We make some very good ones here

Most of the ones I have bought new were made by Sturm, Ruger & Co, Smith and Wesson, ArmaLite, and Springfield Armory. The only non-US gun I have ever bought new that I can think of is a German Sig Sauer P-232. (Even my Glock was made in Smyrna, Georgia.)

[TheWraith]

9. Don't forget Browning / FN Herstal.

Despite FNH being a Belgian company, a lot of their manufacturing is done in the US, particularly rifles and pistols.

However, I don't really see what useful impact banning foreign imports has. It's not like an SKS or a civilian AK is more or less dangerous than, say, and AR-15 or a Browning BAR. Most of our guns are already manufactured here.

[tburnsten]

30. Don't think Glock is manufacturing in Smyrna

They might be making the frames there, can't remember, but the slides, barrels, etc. are definitely built in Austria. OSHA would never allow the Tennifer process here.

[JoeyMac1]

12. MANY modern guns are based off old designs.

EDIT: POSTED AS REPLY TO POST #6

So now you have to determine what means "new"

Many CZ pistols, and modern doublestack semiauto pistols were invented in the 70s.
M16, minigun, Ar10, AK74, SKS... all products of the 70's
Garands, M14, Enfields, Thompsons, Hipowers, 1911's - all WW1/WW2 weapons.

[old mark]

11. Imports of all Chinese made weapons and ammo were permanently banned

by the Clinton administration.(Including the Chinese PLA surplus SKS.)
Prices immediately went up.

mark

[pipoman]

15. At least 50%

probably more like 75% of law enforcement sidearms are imports. Glock, HK and Sig Sauer alone make up a huge number of police sidearms.

[Pullo]

17. I wouldn't want anti-gunners to be labeled as xenophobic

;)

I have a russian SKS. Its reliable and makes for a great beater gun.

[SteveM]

22. Actually, this protectionist policy was advocated in the 1950s. By JFK (nt)

[SteveM]

23. Ignore the double-up

[yay]

28. Because domestic ammo is expensive.

And considering right now ammo is both hard to find AND inflated in price, I think this would be a very poor choice. As it is a box of 20 steel cased 7.62x39 ammo cost me $8, for the same box of 20 brass cased remington it's $14.95. $12 for a box of 32 surplus .303 british, or $22 for a box of 20 remington. Domestically produced 5.45x39 is non-existent.

If you're going to start pulling this crap in one industry, maybe we should ban imports of everything and just buy American, if we can't make/grow it here I guess we can live without right?

I think the import bans we have now are bad enough.

[bossy22]

18. i know of no gun

that discriminates

[SteveM]

21. Prohibition is an addiction -- you just can't get enough (nt)

[gorfle]

3. So let's get this right here...

The inexpensive SKS is a semi-automatic carbine designed in the Soviet Union. Unlike its successor, the AK-47, it is not classified as an assault weapon. No, the ban would not have prevented this massacre and will not absolutely prevent others like it in the future. But it will over time reduce the ready availability of some extremely dangerous weapons.

So let's get this straight here. The SKS used in the crime under discussion isn't even an assault weapon, yet we want to use this crime as an excuse to ban assault weapons. Even though assault rifles account for less than 3% of all homicides annually - half as many as hands and feet.

More important, it will begin to change the culture from one of glorifying the possession of a military-style arsenal to one of responsible gun ownership.

One should not own military-style weapons out of a sense of glorification. One should own them because they are most suitable to the task detailed by the second amendment.

An estimated 70 police officers are killed each year by criminals, though rarely with the sweep of the Oakland tragedy. A study by the Violence Policy Center estimates that one in five of those slayings involves assault weapons. The speed of gunfire makes it harder for officers to react.

So, since 1/5th of 70 is 14, this means that for the sake of 14 police officers every year they want to enact a ban on the most popular civilian center-fire rifles in America.

The National Rifle Association is mobilizing to block any weapons ban. It estimates that semi-automatic weapons account for more than 15 percent of the 250 million firearms owned by Americans.

So, again, for the sake of 14 police officers every year, they want to ban 37,500,000 - nearly 40 million - semi-automatic weapons.

Sorry, but no.

[Tim01]

8. And they don't want to spend more money on more police

or better training.

[spin]

10. And they don't have the balls...

to treat drug gangs like terrorists (which they are).

[JoeyMac1]

13. What they don't have the balls to is

admit thier ultimate agenda is the disarment of American civilians.

I don't care what party a candidate is a member of... if they support asinine legeslation that infringes my rights, is based on lies, and is devoid of logic then they will not recieve my vote. Any candidate who supports such legislation without a coherent explanation should simply admit they do not have the cognitive abilities to represent constituents. It really is that simple. If they cant get logic/statistics sorted out (gun bans & crime rates), can they handle complex issues like economics and energy without fucking up?

[spin]

14. Welcome to DU. (n/t)

[TWiley]

16. Yes, welcome to DZU JoeyMac1

[SteveM]

24. "Disarm the Citizenry" -- Chas. Krauthammer, Washington Post...

Charles Krauthammer, the right-wing columnist at the Washington Post, said this on April 5, 1996: "ultimately, a civilized society must disarm its citizenry... he assault weapon ban is a purely symbolic move real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."

The WaPo is so anti-gun, they manage to find right-wing prohibitionists to "balance" their editorials. But the Post's style is questionable; I mean, do they really want to sound so Orwellian?

[one-eyed fat man]

25. Oakland rally

honoring the heroism of "Freedom Fighter," Lovelle Mixon in his courageous stand against the racist opressors in the Oakland PD.



"OPD you can't hide - we charge you with genocide," chanted the demonstrators as they marched along MacArthur Blvd., near the intersection with 74th Avenue where Mixon, 26, a fugitive parolee, gunned down two motorcycle officers who had pulled him over in a traffic stop. He then killed two more officers who had tried to capture him where he was hiding in sister's apartment nearby.

One picture is worth a thousand words: I mean, if you're not going to celebrate a career criminal who murdered four police officers after hauling a 12 year old girl off the street at gunpoint and raping her along with several other girls, who are you going to celebrate?

And someone wants me to believe that this vermin would have obeyed another gun law?

[slackmaster]

26. I am somewhat encouraged by the story of that rally

Only about 60 people showed up. That means a large majority of Oakland's black community is not completely stupid.

[one-eyed fat man]

27. you are correct...........

but Lovelle was 26 years old when he became a "victim of gun violence." He missed qualifying as a "child" for the purposes of CDC, HCI or VPC press releases by only three years.

Let's analyze this gun control proponents' poster boy a little more. Twenty-six and on parole for assault, armed robbery and rape. Imagine, if he went to rpison on the first day he was eligible to be tried as an ADULT he was back on the street in less than 8 years.

Upset his parole was being vacated for involvement in a murder, assault, a few rapes he shoots two traffic cops in the face! And don't even consider the VPC and HCI ads from 20 years ago telling goons cops wear vests resulted in in thugs concentrating on headshots.

To even attempt to portray some vile waste of DNA like that would have been a model citizen except for how the 'evil guns' made him turn into an animal is beyond belief.

Their approach to gun crime is like stopping drunk driving by taking cars away from sober people.

[X_Digger]

19. What I want to know..

.. is who confused the two?



versus..



Is it just because both are russian?

[Redneck Socialist]

20. "The speed of gunfire makes it harder for officers to react."

LOL!

Yes, by all means reinstate the AWB, take away the flash hider, bayonet lug, folding stock, 30 round mags, and the gun will fire much more slowly. That will allow the officers more time to react.



:crazy:

Who the hell writes this crap?

[tburnsten]

29. I'll just harp on one ridiculous detail

"It estimates that semi-automatic weapons account for more than 15 percent of the 250 million firearms owned by Americans."

Bullshit. There is no way that only 15% of privately owned firearms in the U.S. are semiautos. Autoloaders of one kind or another, be it pistols, rifles, or shotguns, have been sold for over 100 years. There are so many extremely common firearms that are semiautomatic that I can't believe that bolt-action rifles, shotguns other than autos, and revolvers make up for 85% of U.S. privately-owned firearms. Oh and lever-action and single shot rifles and pistols.