I think I have a solution to the private sales thing.

[Tim01]

How about for a start we make the NICS available without a paper trail. So, John wants to buy a gun from me. John and I go to the gun store together, or he goes by himself and I call the store later. He gives them his info and they run the check. I give the store $10 for this. They tell me he is good to go to buy a gun. Whether I sell John a gun or not, and what gun, is nobodys business.And there is no paper trail at all. John got checked out, nothing more.
If the check says John is a felon. Sorry John, take it up with the sheriffs dept.

What do you guys think?

[safeinOhio]

1. It is a state issue

In Michigan you must apply for a "permit to purchase" on all handgun sales, even from a private party. In ohio, you don't. They'll only have a record if you purchase from a licensed dealer. If it is the most important issue in your life, you can move to another state.

[michreject]

24. I have a Mi CCW

and there is no purchase permit required for CCW holders. No NICS check is envolved. Cash and carry.


spellin

[geckosfeet]

2. What is the problem with a "paper trail"? Is a safer world not worth the paperwork?

[Tim01]

3. A paper trail amounts to registration. Most gun guys are not in favor of that.

Neither am I. The idea is it would start with an AWB, we have already seen that once. Next up from that would be a mandatory turn in. If there is a record of the gun on file, they can demand you turn them in. I think in order to get you to turn them in they would use things like income tax returns and driver license as leverage. I'm not sure how much of that is legal, but they have done that kind of thing to me before.
I had a small fine to pay, they sent it to the wrong address and I didn't know about it, a trooper pulled me over and told me my license was suspeneded. I couldn't drive my car until I went and paid the fine.
"I'm sorry sir, your drivers license has been suspended until you turn your illegal firearm"

[geckosfeet]

8. I'm a "gun guy" and I am in favor of registration, regulation and gun safety.

[Tim01]

12. Never heard of a gun guy in favor of registration.

First time for everything.

[geckosfeet]

17. I live in MA - the laws are strict but not impossible to deal with. How effective

they are is another matter.

I just feel like we are smart enough to figure out how to keep guns out of the hands of nutjobs and petty criminals, and still allow people who want to own guns to own them.

The thing is, it may require a good deal of trial and error to find laws that work.

[Billy Ruffian]

19. Gun guy here, too

But I'm not in favor of registration. There is plenty of regulation already. Very much in favor of gun safety, though. IMO, it should be taught in schools.

[Tim01]

22. Agreed. That is why I am trying to figure a way to keep the guns

away from criminals without registration.

[michreject]

25. Not me

It's no one's business.

[TheWraith]

7. You'd probably be talking an order of magnitude increase in traffic.

Which would put a heavy burden on the shop owners to maintain records and the NICS to file them.

[aikoaiko]

4. You could simplify it and open NICS to private callers.

I have no idea why it shouldn't be. NICS only report go/stop on sale and not specific reasons. There would not be any violation of privacy (although most if not all the information is publicly available).

[Tim01]

5. Pretty good idea. I can't really see a downside. Except

the voulme would probably go way way up, so the system would have to be improved. I'd be willing to kick in more money to upgrade the system so that joe average could be sure he wasn't selling a gun to a felon or terrorist. Works for me.

[TheWraith]

6. That could work. It would have to have safeguards to avoid being abused.

To make sure, I mean, that people can't walk in pretending to be someone else and get information on that person. However, since you're already providing details like a social security number, that's probably pretty unlikely.

[one-eyed fat man]

10. SSAN is optional

Actually, the 4473 points out a Social Security number is NOT REQUIRED for the NICS check, but it helps if you have a common name. If there is an ineligible person out there somewhere with the same name as you, especially if age, race or sex are similar, you will likely be denied on that basis.

One other consideration, is that denial is simply that. Unless or until the denied individual undertakes the appeal process no one is told the basis for the denial.

[slackmaster]

9. I agree that NICS should be available for private sales

I've been saying it for many years.

Safeguards would be needed to prevent abuse of the system.

[rl6214]

11. The gun shops don't want to waste their time

unless they are going to make a sale. Many of them that used to charge $20 to do a transfer, which involves making a phone call to NICS, filing out a form and taking your money are no longer willing to do it or are charging $50, $75 or even $100.

[hendo]

20. In Colorado any retail location that sells a firearm has to run a check

Unless the person in question is purchasing a muzzle loader or a BB gun.

[rrneck]

13. Sounds good

but cut the gun store out of the loop. People tend to think of a small gun shop, but the big MegaLowMart Outdoor Activity Center Corporate Behemoth would be the one that would get all the business.

Corporations don't need to get another piece of the public's business civil rights.

[Statistical]

14. It is a state issue.

Sales between two individuals in same states is not something the Constitution gives the Federal Govt authority over.

Some states do require NICS check and transaction to go through an FFL.

Your voluntary NICS system wouldn't do much good. With no paper trail how would you ensure people complete the check?

[Tim01]

16. Hmm. I see what you are saying.

[Tim01]

18. You offer good reasons it wouldn't work. Do you have ideas for solutions?

[SteveM]

23. There is the knock-off of the "motor-voter" method...

Discussed here some time ago, this proposal envisions a background check when anyone applies for a driver's license or official state i.d. If the check comes back clear, a "letter" code would be added to the license indicating a legal purchaser. Should a person commit a crime or be adjudicated mentally incompetent, then that info would be forwarded to state authorities and a new license/i.d. issued without the "legal" code.

When a person sells a gun, he/she would be required to ask for the i.d. from the buyer and record his/her name & i.d. number, and keep this info for a period of _____ years. A different approach would have the buyer would produce a recent state-issued document verifying his/her eligibility to the seller.

There are flaws in any of these schemes, and I have serious doubts as to whether they would have any real effect on crime, school shooting spectaculars, etc. But it might help some feel better than something was "being done."

[Tim01]

15. This is actually a pretty good idea, right?

Am I the only one who thinks this would be a great thing?

[aikoaiko]

21. I think its a good idea.

:applause:

[ManiacJoe]

26. Making the NICS check available to everyone

is a good idea. The NRA and other groups are currently working on this. Currently the general public is prohibited from using it.

However, the NICS check is already paperless. The paper trail comes from the actual purchase from a dealer, not from the NICS check.