Ability of local LEO's to arrest BATFE agents

[Tejas]

There was discussion recently that concerned the ability/authority of a Sheriff to arrest Federal agents. The question came up in a thread about events occuring in Tennessee and addressed arrestability of BATFE agents in particular.

Apparently a Sheriff can not only arrest a BATFE agent, but can also enter an ATF facility to accomplish the arrest. The below was related to damage of private property, guess it remains to be seen if an agent can be arrested for carrying out duties performed in enforcement of ATF regs that run against local wishes.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2009/12/atf.html




edit: spelling

[Historic NY]

1. He is not an agent if he is operating outside his duties.

[SteveM]

4. Good point. I have read cases where DEA agents could wreck your house...

and the judge would rule against the home-owner who sued for damages -- even if the agents got the wrong house. The rulings said the agents were "operating within the scope of their duties." Hopefully, Tennessee sees that the issue is about abuse of power, and not which prohibitionist policy de jour is more moral popular.

[TPaine7]

2. I never suspected that federal agents were above being arrested

by local law enforcement for ordinary crimes, and even by "mere" citizens of the United States for felonies.

If Joe Blow walked up on a DEA agent raping someone or systematically executing subdued prisoners, it never occurred to me that he wouldn't be within his rights to arrest him in the first case using any necessary force or shoot him immediately in the second case.

Now I would expect him to catch hell or even die "resisting arrest" later if he couldn't arrange for a very public surrender, preferably to a different agency. But as a matter of law, I would think no one is above the law and no one committing a blatant and unquestionable felony is above arrest, even citizen's arrest.

So in the case of this smaller crime, I would have assumed that the sheriff could arrest a DEA agent for destroying private property. No one is above the law.

Of course if I'm wrong and the fact that someone is a federal agent places him above arrest by sheriffs, local police, or even Joe Blow for clear, blatant felonies, I would love to learn (more) about how things work in real life.

[Katya Mullethov]

3. Cavalry Arms

Day six hundred and seventy five ..................

[rd_kent]

5. Huh? what are you talking about?

[Katya Mullethov]

6. Nothing really

F-Troop marched off with most of their store , and then left them hanging without filing charges going on nearly two years now . It is time to shit or get off the pot . And I only mention this here in the "can the ATF fuck American citizens indiscriminately ? " thread , because CavArms is not the only one they are doing this to . And quite frankly , yes they can .

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&fkt=1438&fsdt=4875&q=cavalry+arms+raid+&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


How many ATF agents will take how many years to screw in a lightbulb ?

[metalbot]

8. I've been following the CavArms story with some interest

And I find it bizarre that they can't get a legal ruling in their favor. Unfortunately, we've got no way to read the requests that they might have filed with the court or what some of the judicial responses might be. There simply has to be more to this story than what's been released by Cav Arms. Their last official press release was more than a year and a half ago. That's plenty of time for their attorneys to file injunctions, have them turned down, and then raise hell about the decisions being handed down by the judges. The fact that we've not heard anything about legal proceedings by CavArms is making me wonder what's going on. If there was a search warrant that was signed off by a Federal Judge, then clearly there is an accusation in place, and two years is more than enough time for their attorneys to understand the basis for the probable cause.

My guess here is that there probably were some technical irregularities associated with Cav Arms FFL business (this doesn't mean that they were intentionally doing anything wrong, but it's easy to break federal regulations without knowing it), and maybe this is being held over their heads while the "investigation" is dragged out? The ATF can basically say "yeah, you can stay in business, but if you start contesting our search in court, we have enough technical violations that we can just shut you down for good".

[TPaine7]

10. "can the ATF fuck American citizens indiscriminately ? "

I suspect that in this case the parade of young men entering and exiting the ATF agent's room knew what they were there for and consented. In other words, it was not indiscriminate or even illegal (assuming no money changed hands).

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Katya Mullethov]

12. He of all people should know that drilling a hole is illegal

Now youre getting the idea !!

[jeepnstein]

13. I don't care what he does...

on his own time. It's not my business. Was he paying for the room on a government credit card? Wow, talk about a career ender. I don't necessarily think the "glory hole" is a big deal but he should be fired for messing with the fire alarms, if convicted. He'll be a pariah within the agency if he manages to stay.

[TPaine7]

14. Not sure I follow.

If the agent used a gov credit card for the room and had a lady up after work would he have a problem if the Agency found out? I would think the guys at the office would pat him on the back.

What's the problem?

a) taking some person(s) up to room for sex after work while on government funded trip = illegal or violation of policy and career ending mistake

b) destroying private property while on government funded trip = illegal or violation of policy and career ending mistake

c) embarrassing the agency in a high profile gaffe while on government funded trip = career ending mistake

d) something else altogether

[Katya Mullethov]

15. He probably had approval from Technology Branch to drill the hole

But then they yanked it , and yanked it , and yanked it .




http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=m16+auto+sear+hole+&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g3

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=akins+accelerator+bullshit&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

I say epic , as the NFA crowd is really gonna go to town on this clown .

[PavePusher]

16. Coffee through the nose...

It never hurts any less.

:spray:

[Katya Mullethov]

18. What ?

Its refreshing to see ATF finally getting screwed for a change ! I bet it sucks to be him .

[PavePusher]

7. Read here:

http://www.cavalryarms.com/

Scroll down their Home page. There is a lot of info on the net, though you do need to filter it carefully. Basics are that BATFE apparently authorized manufacture of a nifty polymer-built AR-15 sytle rifle, then raided their facility, seized goods and records without giving reason, and are not being communicative. Cav Arms is having to spend a lot of time and money to sort this out, and the BATFE appears to be as obstructive as possible. Read and draw your own conclusions.

[Katya Mullethov]

9. Almost forgot the requisite cockshot

He did have a portable glory hole for crying out loud . This one might turn epic .



For those not up on their shenanigans , they once handed out "Always Think Forfieture" Leatherman tools .......ONCE!!!!

[TPaine7]

11. It does seem like the kind of thing the news media finds useful in getting Americans to watch

their sponsors' commercials.

I agree, it could become an international story.

[Tejas]

17. Hands-on managerial training? nt