Man kills himself at Burbank shooting range

[wtmusic]

"A Los Angeles man shot and killed himself at the Firing-Line indoor shooting range in Burbank, police said Friday.

It was at least the third suicide at the range in the last few years.

Officers responded to the shooting range at 1060 N. Lake St. about 4:30 p.m. Thursday to find the man with an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head, Burbank police Sgt. Darin Ryburn told the Burbank Leader. The man was pronounced dead at the scene."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/08/firing-range-suicide-burbank.html

The handgun was rented at the range.

Now, if someone is going through a personal crisis, what more convenient solution is there than bopping over to the local range and renting a gun...kinda makes the 10-day waiting period a joke, no?

Many ranges require rentees to bring a handgun with them - but I suppose making a safety measure like this law would be considered by the NRA "gun control". :eyes:

[divideandconquer]

1. This is the "gun rights" movement crying for help, at least he didn't take innocent people with him

No dead wives, students, co-workers, kids, wrong color people, police, etc, just himself, at a freaking shooting range. I suppose it was just another sacrifice to the ever bloodthirsty gun god.

[Angry Dragon]

2. No, it was a person in a lot of inner pain

[PavePusher]

3. Really?

All about the gun, eh?

No-one ever commits suicide with any other implements, I suppose.....

[wtmusic]

7. Of course, but handguns are the most common method.

Repeat slowly after me: "Available handguns pose the most significant danger to those with suicidal thoughts..."

It wasn't that hard, was it?

[divideandconquer]

26. Hey he died doing what he loved best, shooting a gun

[X_Digger]

27. You know that, how?

Or was it just a way to demonize someone with a mental illness just because he committed suicide with an implement you despise?

[cowman]

28. What a fucking asinine comment

[pipoman]

42. Only an

idiot would think such a thing. Why would he have to RENT a fucking gun if he was a gun owner? Duh. People do this quite often and they are almost never gun owners, they go to a range, rent a gun because they don't own one, and shoot themselves. Do yopu think before you open your mouth?

[PavePusher]

67. With a comment like that...

I can only assume you actually enjoy presenting yourself as a complete and utter fucktard.

I don't see any other rational explaination for your bigotry, callousness and willful ignorance.

[Euromutt]

64. No, handguns do NOT pose the most significant danger to those with suicidal thoughts

The most significant danger to those with suicidal thoughts is posed by those persons themselves. Whatever method they use, they the ones who are going to use it; guns will not spontaneously discharge, ropes coil themselves into nooses, nor bridges pull themselves out from under their feet.

[PavePusher]

66. You seem to imply that restricting access to guns...

will lower the rates of suicide.

Please, support this assertion with evidence, or explain how I am interpreting you erroneously.

[SteveM]

76. Your remedies? None?

[proteus_lives]

34. So much ignorance.

[SteveM]

75. Uh, gotta hate-on, there? Please do something about it. nt

[PavePusher]

4. I disagree with the offered solution.

The reason to rent guns is to try them out prior to purchase. Fit and ergonomics is one of many keys to safe, accurate shooting. If you don't own a firearm already, it would be impractical and stupid and, yes, an infringment, to require a person to borrow one just to gain admittance.

"third suicide... ...in the last few years." How many years? Two? Three? Five? Are you going to put similar restrictions on people who mis-use rental cars?

[wtmusic]

6. It's a lot easier to kill yourself with a gun than a rental car.

Kinda crazy that I even have to say it, but apparently I do.

[cowman]

12. Not really

rent a car, drive 100 mph into a brick wall or whatever, poof, your dead.

[wtmusic]

13. Rent a gun, point at head, pull the trigger. You're dead.

Much easier. Really.

[cowman]

16. This guy

was going to kill himself regardless of what he used, and why should my RKBA be questioned because some asshole decided to off himself in public, that was pretty selfish of him. I really don't give a fuck if he killed himself, that doesn't mean that my 2nd amend right should be restricted.

[wtmusic]

17. Many of your rights have been restricted in the interest of public safety.

Get used to it.

[cowman]

18. And gun control as an issue is dead

get over it, not even the congress is contemplating new gun laws, they remember what happened in 94.

[wtmusic]

20. How predictable.

By the time I refute your chain of argument it always ends up that "gun control as an issue is dead".

That leaves no particular reason is should be dead, except that you want it dead.

You claim this guy was selfish, but all he did was kill himself. Not having policy in place, and for no good reason, made it much easier for him to do it.

That's even more selfish, isn't it?

[cowman]

22. No

whats selfish is that he did it in public instead of at home, and what arguement did you refute? It is true that gun control is dead, more and more states are relaxing their gun laws and allowing for law abiding citizens to open or conceal carry, refute that please. All the gun control movement, or should I say, non movement, have left are emotions and shrill arguments.

[wtmusic]

23. Well now I guess they wouldn't let him take that rental home, now would they?

You aren't, and have never, made any sense at all. Ignored. :hi:

[cowman]

25. I'm damned proud to be on your ignore list

Typical anti gunner, hit them with facts and they insult and run away.

[PavePusher]

65. You're a victim of the...

"La, la, la, la, la, I can't hear you" school of debate.

It happens around here on occasion. You learn to live with it after a while. Sort of a badge of honor, really. :fistbump: :rofl:

[SteveM]

81. He's flat-lined. Next! nt

[SteveM]

80. Gun-controllers strenghtened 2A. Thanks. nt

[Euromutt]

69. How is this a public safety issue?

The guys who offed themselves at this range didn't pose a danger to anyone but themselves. It's a bit self-centred of them to leave the range with the mess, but no more so than someone who throws himself under an oncoming train. Intentional self-harm is only a public safety issue insofar as the method threatens physical harm to person other than the one committing self-harm (e.g. the bullet goes on to hit someone else, or the jumper lands on another person), and in that respect, it's no different from accidental firearm discharges, falls and the like.

[Glassunion]

72. Thank you Mr. Bush.

[SteveM]

82. He speaks of "selfishness." Yet, keeps gun-control visible for the GOP. nt

[SteveM]

79. Get used to this: the RKBA is being strengthened. Clear now? nt

[SteveM]

78. Remedies? Proposals? Solutions? Got any? No? Thought so. nt

[SteveM]

77. You may wish to speculate on why there are a big number of deaths...

by high-speed, single-car "accidents" by veterans in the Ft. Hood area.

Kinda crazy, eh?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cowman]

11. Can't use the term gun nuts

say bye bye to your post and enjoy your stay on DU

[Bold Lib]

8. "It was at least the third suicide at the range in the last few years. " Isn't

there some sort of psychological force that draws people intent on suicide to go to "other places of suicide"? I'm referring to things like "lovers leap". It appears to me that this range is drawing people by its reputation.

[wtmusic]

9. It's drawing people because they didn't have any measures

in place to prevent suicide (many other ranges do).

[Bold Lib]

14. Could you please provide what those measures are? A link would be nice.

[wtmusic]

15. From the article:

"The firing range has instituted an assortment of safety measures in response to the incident, officials said." (Don't know what safety measures those are, you could call and ask: [phone])

Another range:

"TWO OR MORE PEOPLE: (For gun rentals, excludes handgun owners. Handgun owners must bring firearm with them to rent any firearms.)"

http://www.thelosangelesgunclub.com/pricerentals.html

[Bold Lib]

19. So you don't know what kind of measures they are talking about.

You don't know if they are platitudes or practical and you absolutely do not know that "(many other ranges do)".

[wtmusic]

21. Why don't you fucking call and ask?

I gave you a link to one successful gun club that has instituted measures. I assume they have good reason, or they wouldn't have made it harder for their customers, doncha think?

Christ, when you guys have your back to the wall your posts get sillier and siller.

:silly:

[Bold Lib]

29. I'm not the one posting things that I don't know are true or not. It is your responsibility

to back up your claims. You have failed to do this and no seem to respond by lashing out using vulgarities. Why is that?

You have a clear statement that "measures" would stop this but cannot say weather these are measures or are platitudes. You "assume"? Did you ever hear about what "assume" gets you? LOL

"or they wouldn't have made it harder" How do you know it was made "harder" when you don't even know what the measures are?

"Christ, when you guys have your back to the wall your posts get sillier and siller." Speaking of silly. I ask you to describe what measures and you come back with vulgarities. Yeah, silly.

"(many other ranges do)" How many ranges? What percentage? How many have had such incidents that have, and have not, instituted your miraculous "measures"?

[wtmusic]

31. Playing ignorant just to be a nuisance is so boring.

I'm not sure you're playing, but here's a link to the definition of platitude. Maybe you meant policy, but it makes no sense in the context in which you used it.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/platitude

I posted the measures, I provided a link to them. If you can't see how forcing someone to bring another weapon before they rent would prevent suicide, I can't explain it to you. Like knowing how to walk, it requires a fundamental level of comprehension that I really don't have time to bother with.

Please join cowman and discuss it with him. Ignored :hi:

[Bold Lib]

37. No, you said "measures" you have yet to explain what those measures are

or provide a link to what they are. When asked you said to call them. It is in fact you that is ignorant. Ignorant of what the measures are. You have answered none of my pointed questions only dodged them saying that "measures" have been instituted. And now that you are backed into a corner you have 1) lashed out with vulgarities and finally 2) placed me on ignore. It is obvious that you are incapable of defending your "assumptions" so you slink away. Typical.

[Bold Lib]

85. You have still not listed what "measures" would stop this. Nor have you

been able to prove that "many other ranges do". I guess you can't.

[beevul]

87. Good grief.

"If you can't see how forcing someone to bring another weapon before they rent would prevent suicide, I can't explain it to you."

It WOULD NOT prevent suicide.

It may prevent suicide at the firing range, but thats an entirely different thing than saying it would prevent suicide in general.



But then you knew that.

[spin]

40. Here's a link that has some proposed measures ...

After the latest incident, Rieg's said it will only rent guns to parties of two or more. Since the April suicides, Shoot Straight has stopped renting guns all together.

The law does not require background checks on people who rent guns, only on people who buy them.

Shoot Straight attorney Joerg Jaeger said the company is trying to get the legislature to pass a law that would allow Shoot Straight and other gun ranges to do full background checks on people who rent guns, but that the state said it is a federal issue.

"Well, okay, the federal government doesn't require it but you can still put it into law," Jaeger said.

The company said it is also considering requiring people who rent guns to present a permission slip from a close family member and a copy of that family member's driver's license and phone number. Another option Shoot Straight is considering is to hire the services of a firm that can do instant background checks.
http://www.wesh.com/r/19924466/detail.html

I have shot at a number of pistol ranges over the years but never at one that offered guns for rent. The reason is that most of the ranges that offer rentals are upscale and expensive and cater to an affluent clientele.

I can see advantages in renting handguns especially for a newbie shooter. If I want to try shooting some new handguns, I just bring my S&W .44 magnum along and fire a few round to attract some attention. I then offer the people who are interested an opportunity to try a cylinder full. They usually return the favor and let me shoot their handgun. I've managed to shoot a lot of different handguns by using this technique. I still remember shooting a Webley .45 caliber revolver.

The Webley Revolver (also known as the Webley Break-Top Revolver or Webley Self-Extracting Revolver) was, in various marks, the standard issue service pistol for the armed forces of the United Kingdom, the British Empire, and the Commonwealth from 1887 until 1963.

The Webley is a top-break revolver with automatic extraction; breaking the revolver open for reloading also operates the extractor, removing the spent cartridges from the cylinder. The Webley Mk I service revolver was adopted in 1887, but it was a later version, the Mk IV, which rose to prominence during the Boer War of 1899–1902. The Mk VI, introduced in 1915 during the First World War, is perhaps the best-known model.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver

I was surprised at how accurate the revolver was.

[shadowrider]

70. What measures? n/t

[Euromutt]

86. More likely, it's an effect of media exposure

Prospective suicides read about people successfully killing themselves at this range, so if that's the method they plump for, that's where they'll go.

In Seattle, the Aurora Bridge (officially the George Washington Memorial Bridge) over the Ship Canal draws suicides not least because it's common knowledge that it's a popular spot to commit suicide by jumping; of the ~230 completed suicides committed by jumping off the bridge between 1932 and 2006, ~50 took place in the last ten years of that period.

But prospective suicides don't just instinctively know about the places where they can evidently successfully off themselves; they read about it in the paper, or see it on the news. If you're going to curtail a constitutional right in the name of public health or safety, consider the option of muzzling the media.

[spin]

30. The Sunshine Skyway Bridge at the mouth of Tampa Bay is such a location ...

In fact there is a web site that allows you to enter your guess for when the next jumper tries to commit suicide.

tp://www.jumperpool.com/home.htm

According to the site:

the sunshine skyway bridge
on the west coast of florida, at the mouth of tampa bay,
is the attraction of choice for many contemplating life's self end.
it's the #4 suicide bridge in the country, #1 east of the mississippi river.

2010: 4 suicides, 14 possible, 4 saves
2009: 8 suicides, 15 possible, 1 survivor, 8 saves
2008: 11 suicides, 10 possible, 2 survivors, 5 saves
2007: 10 suicides, 7 possible, 2 survivors, 1 save
2006: 5 suicides, 18 possible, 1 survivor
2005: 11 suicides, 12 possible, 2 saves
2004: 4 suicides, 2 possible, 4 saves
2003: 13 suicides, 4 saves
2002: 9 suicides, 1 survivor 2001: 5 suicides, 3 survivors
2000: 5 suicides, 1 survivor, 1 save
1999: 10 suicides, 2 survivors
1998: 12 suicides, 1 survivor
1997-1987: 34 suicides, 3 survivors
1986-1977: 15 suicides, 1 forced, 7 survivors
1976-1967: 14 suicides, 4 survivors
1966-1957: 19 suicides, 3 survivors

unofficial totals: 189 suicides + 31 survivors = 220 jumpers.*

Far more people have committed suicide from this bridge than people who have committed suicide at gun ranges in the Tampa Bay area and probably at gun ranges in the entire country since it was founded.

[Bold Lib]

39. Simple solution. Close the bridge.

Simple solutions are always so simple for simple people. Do I need the sarcasm thingy?

[spin]

43. No. People commit suicide in many ways ...

Some chose to merely abuse alcohol or drugs and gradually do it over time. Some take overdoses of prescription medicine. Some drive cars into bridge abutments at high speed. Some hang themselves. The list goes on and on.

Firearms are merely one method to kill oneself. If you totally eliminated firearms, people who felt the need would just use another method.

[wtmusic]

46. Firearms are twice as popular as the next most popular method (suffocation)

Some people would find another way to get the job done; others without the benefits of availability and convenience might reconsider.

[Pavulon]

48. More google for you. The numbers are complex and split among sex

women shoot themselves less than men and represent a smaller number of suicides than men as a whole. Fix root cause and stop fucking about with this stupidity.

There is no access to quality mental care in the us unless you can pay.

And you can look to japan to see how those who are determined manage with no guns.

[wtmusic]

52. 53% choose guns

The statistics are very straightforward.

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html#2005

[Pavulon]

60. Women? post their methods? no, does not support your position.(nt)

[DissedByBush]

92. That's the solution anti-gunners use for guns

Forgetting that there is absolutely no correlation between handgun availability and suicide rate.

[MadMaddie]

10. It is a tradgedy that this man felt he had to take his life

but it is a blessing that he didn't take others out before killing himself.

[X_Digger]

24. Where in the article do you see..

.. that the handgun was rented at the range?

And what public policy would you change to stop them, eh? How much political capital would you piss away to {purportedly} stop something as rare as hen's teeth?

[wtmusic]

32. I saw that in a paper version of the LA Times

It's not in this article. Here is a link to a Calguns forum by patron of the range

"Good point.

No background check on a rental so no way to know if the renter is 5150.

It does beat "suicide by cop" where you get an entire block shut down for hours, inconveniencing the public, plus the days of paperwork and expense from the officer involved shooting (not to mention lawsuits from the family)."

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=238080

IMO it would be reasonable to require ranges to require renters to bring a gun with them (it doesn't make a lot of sense that someone would go to a range to off themself, if they could easily do it at home). And IMO the political capital expended would be minimal, except with those who think that any regulation of guns means all regulation of guns. They're a waste of time to try to reason with anyway.

[X_Digger]

63. Have any idea how many there are?

Have any figures on how many people don't have their own gun, but go to a range to rent one? I know of four- three in FL in 2009, and the one mentioned previously at this range in CA (2008?).. There was another one at the same range in FL, but he brought his own gun.

So you'd give the rethugicans another cudgel to beat dems about the head and shoulders for what, 20 deaths a decade?

This is the baby..


This is the bathwater..


One you keep, one you throw out.

Make no mistake, gun control is a third rail. Piss on it at all democrats peril.

(it doesn't make a lot of sense that someone would go to a range to off themself, if they could easily do it at home)

Except it does.. if you don't want your family to have to clean brains off the wallpaper. It's a shitty thing to do to the people who have to work at the range, though. How they can be thoughtful of their own family but not thoughtful of the employees and other patrons baffles me.

[Bold Lib]

41. You know, I asked a similar question about what "measures" were

instituted that would prevent this. I asked for specifically what "measures" and have since been cursed at, called ignorant, and now placed on ignore. Don't' count on getting an answer.

[PavePusher]

68. See my post #65. n/t

[Bold Lib]

84. thanks n/t

[proteus_lives]

33. Outlaw suicide. It's the only way we'll be safe.

[wtmusic]

35. Not necessary, just make it harder with easily-implementable regs.

Next...

[proteus_lives]

36. Depends.

What you call "regs" I'd probably call the dismantling of citizen's rights.

Provide an example of your "regs" if I'm wrong.

[wtmusic]

38. Not you too.

I'll say it again, although I don't know why I bother.

You have many, many rights which are curtailed ("dismantled", if you want to be dramatic) in the interest of public safety. Happens all the time.

Read the OP if you want an example, I'm tired of retyping it for the lazy. :eyes:

[proteus_lives]

44. Ah, I see.

Thank you for revealing yourself.

"Public safety" :eyes:

[pipoman]

45. So you are suggesting curtailing the right

to buy rope, gasoline, any and everything sharp, rat poison, entry to tall buildings and bridges, all in the interest of public safety?

[wtmusic]

49. Many of those rights are already curtailed.

To choose one from your list, "any and everything sharp" is a classic strawman:

"committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position."

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

Here are a number of regs in place already for the most dangerous sharp things (safety pins are statistically safe):

"Penal Code section 653k prohibits the sale or possession in public or in a vehicle of switchblade knives with a blade two or more inches in length, whether or not it is concealed. Penal Code section 12020 prohibits carrying a concealed dirk or dagger on your person, in public or private, no matter what length. Under California law, almost any pointy thing, including steak knives and knitting needles, can be a dirk or dagger. (People v. Rubalcava (2000) 23 Cal.4th 322.)

Beyond these general prohibitions, it is illegal to possess a knife with a fixed blade (or one which can be fixed) of over four inches in any state or local public building without written permission or at any meeting required to be open to the public. (Penal Code section 171b.) A knife with a fixed or fixable blade in excess of four inches is illegal to possess in the "sterile area" of an airport. (Penal Code section 171.5--good luck getting it past security in the first place.)

It is generally unlawful to have a dirk or dagger on a school ground (including colleges), as well as fixed blade knives (which would appear to be dirks or daggers anyway), and any knife with a blade over 2.5 inches. (Penal Code section 626.10.) Note that while it may not be illegal, possession of ANY knife on a school ground may be a basis for expulsion from school. (Education Code section 48915.)"

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070514091804AApH6lY

[Pavulon]

56. You are standing on a sandbar, washing away

there are 2 supreme court cases upholding ownership as an individual right. 2 cases, only one case brown vs board, roe v wade, etc uphold those rights.

Do you hold those cases to be invalid? BTW do you actually have a suggestion to address root cause or is this just a gun thing for you.

[wtmusic]

57. I know we've reached rock bottom

when the argument resorts to "things are never gonna change, so just give up."

Personally I think that's a fucked up reason, so I'm not gonna give up.

[Pavulon]

61. Oh they are going to change..

the bamboozle of gun control is = crime control is dead. Math killed it. Politics will kill gun control, no one will touch it.

it is an affirmed right. arguing against it is not all that progressive.

You dont have to give up, but you join company with some unsavory people.

[PavePusher]

91. No-one (government included) has demonstrated that some knives....

are more "dangerous" than other knives.

It was all "feel good", "look at us do something" legislation that did nothing to slow crime.

They are also Unconstitutional.

Note that it makes kitchen knives illegal in many acceptable settings...

[oneshooter]

93. " Most dangerous" in California don't mean nothing in Texas. n/t

[hack89]

88. You must have loved the Patriot Act. nt

[beevul]

89. Refresh our collective memory please...

"You have many, many rights which are curtailed ("dismantled", if you want to be dramatic) in the interest of public safety. Happens all the time."


Which of those rights that were "curtailed ("dismantled", if you want to be dramatic) in the interest of public safety", fit into the catagory of rights which government is specifically forbidden from interference with, and to what degree have they done so in those cases?

[Pavulon]

47. Tylenol and vodka?

wife is an er doc, women tend to be more inventive and there are plenty of chemicals in your house that will kill you as dead as a 357mag, without the mess.

How ever do they manage to kill themselves in japan?? NEXT.


has not fuck to do with my right to own a gun.

[wtmusic]

50. I don't know, ask someone who's committed suicide.

53% of them choose guns...they're far more dangerous.

Next...

[Pavulon]

53. How do they do it in Japan. Samurai Swords, Hello Kitty letter openers?

what someone chooses to end their life with has NO FUCKING BEARING on my right to own a gun. None.

Educate yourself..
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

[wtmusic]

55. Actually I was discussing American policy

I'm sure you could find a forum to discuss a Japanese approach to suicide prevention if you looked, but to assume that the two cultures are equivalent in that regard is more than a bit naive.

[Pavulon]

58. No, the methods to kill yourself are quite the same. You dont like the comparison

because it does not support your position. How bout the ladies (see the stats) ? maybe they dont want to leave a mess?

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

[Euromutt]

90. Right; "it's the guns, stupid" except when it isn't

Not the first time I've encountered this tactic. First, the claim is made that availability of firearms facilitates suicides that would (it is implied) otherwise not take place, but when it's pointed out that other countries with more restrictive gun laws (France, Sweden, Japan) have comparable or higher suicide rates than the United States, well, that's different because it's cultural.

What evidence is there that the availability of firearms in American society does anything more than influence only the method of suicide, but not the level?

[friendly_iconoclast]

94. Accounts of non-firearm suicides aren't useful for promoting Prohibition...

...so of course those suicides are downplayed by some.


Although traumatized onlookers and grieving family members are pretty much the same regardless of method.

And the victims are, of course, just as dead. Some people prefer to elide those details...

[spin]

59. People who are unstable enough to attempt to commit suicide ...

would find an alternative to firearms if the rental of such firearms were tightly regulated at pistol ranges.

I hope that you are not suggesting that all firearms be banned because some people use them as a convenient method of killing themselves. If so, you might consider banning sharp objects that can be used to slice blood vessels or limiting the amount of prescription drugs a person can buy to eliminate overdoses. Or for that matter, the sale of rope and clothesline as they might be used by someone to hang themselves. I could go on forever.

If all you want to achieve is a better system of renting firearms at a range so as to help prevent suicide, I have no major problems.

[spin]

51. I don't see any problem with requiring a person who rents a firearm ...

at a range to either bring another gun or a person with him.

I have never shot at a range that rented handguns. I have visited them and found that they usually deal with an upscale clientele and are far too expensive for my taste.

It would ruin my day if some fool rented a handgun and blew his brains out while I was on the range enjoying my hobby.

I'm not sure if the NRA has any position on regulation of rental firearms. I would imagine that they would prefer to leave that up to the individual ranges.

It's unfortunate the firearms are often used as a method to commit suicide.

The leading method of suicide varies dramatically between countries. The leading methods in different regions include hanging, pesticide poisoning, and firearms.<37> Worldwide 30% of suicides are from pesticides. The use of this method however varies markedly from 4% in Europe to more than 50% in the Pacific region.<38> In the United States 52% of suicides involve the use of firearms.<39> Asphyxiation and poisoning are fairly common as well. Together they comprised about 40% of U.S. suicides. Other methods of suicide include blunt force trauma (jumping from a building or bridge, self-defenestrating, stepping in front of a train, or car collision, for example). Exsanguination or bloodletting (slitting one's wrist or throat), intentional drowning, self-immolation, electrocution, and intentional starvation are other suicide methods. Individuals may also intentionally provoke another person into administering lethal action against them, as in suicide by cop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide#Suicide_methods

Still, if someone were to wave a magic wand and eliminate all firearms in our country, people would still commit suicide. But I have no problem with stricter regulations at shooting ranges that rent firearms.

[wtmusic]

54. Thank you for your reasoned response.

:thumbsup:

[spin]

62. Thanks. As long as you are not advocating banning guns to prevent ...

suicide, I have no problems with your argument.

Personally, if I ever did decide to commit suicide, I would never chose a firearm. First, I enjoy firearms and would never add to the statistics of death caused by guns. Second, it's messy. Someone has to clean that mess up.

Fortunately, I enjoy life far to much to even consider killing myself.

[Callisto32]

71. You have a right to commit suicide.

Your body, your choice.

I apply that principle to more than one thing.

[aikoaiko]

73. One of the best recommendation for a first time gun buyer is to go a rental range and try them

before buying. When I travel without firearms I like to go to rental ranges and try some new firearms. There are good reasons to not require a renter to bring in a handgun with them.

I'm not convinced that the problem of people renting handguns and suiciding is large enough to merit this kind of regulation. And I am not convinced that even if such regulation were in place that the person would not simply buy a handgun or use another technique to suicide.

Its sad when anyone commits suicide because of mental illness, but I'm cautious about instituted legal regulations that may not actually solve the problem.

[SteveM]

74. How many similar incidents to support this flamer? None? Thought so. nt

[spin]

83. It may not be frequent but it does happen ...

Second Suicide At Gun Range Prompts Policy Change
Updated: 10:47 am EDT April 28, 2009

SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. -- When Shoot Straight gun range opens its doors Tuesday morning it will not rent any guns to customers.

The Casselberry gun range became a crime scene for the second time in a month, after 26-year-old Jason McCarthy of Winter Springs rented a gun and killed himself inside the range Monday.

The owner's attorney told Eyewitness News they are asking the state to allow them to do background checks on customers before they rent guns. Until then, they will sacrifice the money normally made on rentals.

Twice in one month, Casselberry police had to swarm the Shoot Straight gun range because someone was killed inside. This time a man from Winter Springs shot himself in the head and died.

"This is crazy, you know," said Andrew Colon, Casselberry resident.

Three weeks ago, Marie Moore shot and killed her son Mitchel in the same gun range and then killed herself. Family members told police she had a history of mental illness.

McCarthy's family said he had mental problems, too.


***snip***

The shooters in both cases rented guns from the facility. The attorney for Shoot Straight, Joerg Jaeger, says that will no longer be allowed at any of its Florida locations.

Jaeger believes the problem is that the state does not allow background checks unless customers buy a gun. As a result, the store can only rely on people who rent guns to tell the truth when they sign a form that asks about felony convictions, your mental state and whether you take medication.

"We just think it's a safety issue. We don't know any other way to do it. We've tried everything else we can," said Joerg Jaeger.
http://www.wftv.com/news/19305594/detail.html

GUNSHOT SUICIDE AT RANGE

The 20-year-old college-student son of a globetrotting UN staffer fatally shot himself in the head at a popular Chelsea rifle range that had sold him ammunition, rented him a high-powered rifle - and left him on his own, The Post has learned.

The bizarre suicide of Patrick Karorero happened June 3 inside the West Side Pistol Range on West 20th Street, which caters to Wall Street types, law-enforcement officials and shooting hobbyists.

It's where Robert De Niro, playing cabby Travis Bickle in the 1976 movie "Taxi Driver," was filmed staring down a barrel of a gun.

***snip***

Sources familiar with the case provided the following account:

Karorero, who had first visited the range on May 20, paid a $25 range fee and purchased three boxes, or 150 rounds, of 9mm ammunition for an additional $45.

He was then rented a Hi-Point 9mm carbine rifle for another $40 and left alone to practice.

The Hi-Point is the same type of rifle wielded by one of the gunmen in the Columbine HS massacre.

At about 9 p.m., some two hours after showing up, a jittery Karorero waited for several other target shooters near him to leave the area.

Then, after looking distractedly to either side, he fired a rifle shot into his head.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/regional/item_wHFvEzH7J904rhkstVHFAI;jsessionid=965FF82A921C2D6B1F8FC600D7DBEEB2

At ranges, anyone can fire
Published April 17, 2007

TAMPA - Jeffrey Dudney rented a gun with ease at a shooting range last week. It was perfectly legal, even though he was accused earlier this month of attempted first-degree murder.

Dudney took five people hostage Thursday in a 10-hour standoff that ended with his suicide.

Three of them, all gun range customers, had criminal records, and one of the three was a felon. William "Chris" Perez, convicted in February of fleeing and eluding a police officer, brought his own gun to the range for target practice.

That wasn't legal. Florida law prohibits felons from possessing firearms.

At private gun ranges around the Tampa Bay area, owners say they operate on the honor system. Ranges do background checks for gun purchases but not for rentals or for those who bring their own firearms. Local ranges ask patrons to sign liability waivers and promise to have a clean background.

"They have to say they're not a felon," said Shooting Sports president Fred Flesche. "And, of course, people can lie."

Several ranges, including Shooting Sports, say they don't verify whether people are telling the truth.

"As far as our range, when a new shooter comes in, we obviously can't do a background check on everybody who comes in because it costs money," said Molly Baker, an employee at Knight Shooting Sports in Clearwater. "The first question they sign is that they are not a convicted felon."

Shooting Sports caught the public's attention Thursday, when Dudney came into the range and took hostages, including two range employees.

Dudney held the hostages in a front office and threatened to kill them if his demands - first for a car, then for 40 to 50 Xanax pills - weren't met. About 3:30 a.m. Friday, he instead killed himself.
http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/2007/04/17/Hillsborough/At_ranges__anyone_can.shtml

[Nailzberg]

95. More people have killed themselves this year at the Colorado St Bridge, just a few miles away.

But that never makes the paper, hard to have an agenda against bridges.