8 shot, 4 fatally, outside Buffalo, NY, restaurant

[MichaelHarris]

BUFFALO, N.Y. — Eight people leaving a party at a downtown Buffalo restaurant were shot early Saturday, four of them fatally, including a Texas man who had returned to his hometown to celebrate his first wedding anniversary, police said.

Tommy Dates, 35, of Buffalo, said he was at the bar area of the restaurant with his friends when he noticed a party had broken up. He said people started leaving the restaurant but rushed back inside a few minutes later.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5igLvmLIYhe5ZTAtAcCkfnQZT8_HwD9HJJPB00

[cowman]

1. Wait a minute

this is untrue as we all know that NY's gun laws are some of the strictest in the nation. So what does this have to do with lawful citizens owning guns?

[baldguy]

2. Buffalo is not NYC.

In case you didn't know.

[cowman]

5. READ THE POST

I said NY, not NYC.

[baldguy]

14. NYC's gun laws are more stringent than other municipalities.

New York State's gun laws aren't any more than most other places.

Again, Buffalo isn't NYC.

[TheWraith]

19. You're mistaken. New York's pistol laws are among the strictest in the country.

You're not allowed to even own a pistol without a permit. Getting a permit requires three character witnesses, three identical photos, fingerprinting, FBI background check, and 3-9 months of wait time, as well as $100-$300 in fees depending on the county. In Erie County, where Buffalo is, permit applications have been known to take more than a year. The police can turn you down for any reason, and you have no appeal. Also Erie County will frequently only issue restricted permits, which allow you to own a pistol for target shooting or hunting, but not to carry it.

[MichaelHarris]

3. Oh I'm sure

in your mind you want it to be untrue but those people are really dead.

[cowman]

7. I should have added the sarcasm tag

:sarcasm: There is that better?

[cleanhippie]

25. Are they dead from a legal gun owner using a gun illegally?

I'm sure in your mind you want that to be true........

[humpty dumpty]

4. And your point is

what, exactly?

[X_Digger]

6. Oh look..

I can randomly bold a section of a sentence in such a way that makes no sense.

Did you have a point?

[cowman]

8. I think we all know what his point is.

[MadMaddie]

9. Why do people think that they have to pull a gun to resolve a

verbal argument?

What do we know about the suspect?

Another loss of life for no reason..

[cowman]

10. I would pull my

LEGALLY CARRIED CONCEALED gun if I was given no other option to resolve a problem, like some goblin trying to harm me or my other, and what do we know about the people that were shot? Now if I was in a verbal argument and armed, I would just walk away from the confrontation.

[Pavulon]

11. I did not shoot them, what's your point?(nt)

[oneshooter]

12. If he has a point, it is hidden by the hat. n/t

[krispos42]

13. Police are still not sure who the shooter is.

The guy they arrested, a 25-year old man parolled less than 3 weeks ago, after 7 years in prison for being an accomplice in a drive-by shooting. However, a few hours later they were like "um, we don't think it was him, so we're going to withdraw the charges Monday as soon as the courts open".

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article101509.ece

[aikoaiko]

15. Apparently, MH is upset that a witness was in the bar area of a restaurant when he saw people leave.

wtf? :shrug:

[slackmaster]

16. Unrec for drive-by "current events" post with nothing to connect it to forum topic

It's also being discussed in a thread in General Discussion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4503567

[SteveM]

17. At least he didn't go on a nation-wide killing spree -- with a knife...

Does this pass muster with you?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100813/ap_on_re_us/us_serial_stabbings

[Remmah2]

18. Buffalo has a growing gang and drug problem.

That particular strip of bars has a reputation for drunken fights, stabbings and drugs. Even with the installation of police cameras, lots of bad stuff still happens. Years ago this particular neighborhood strip had a bad reputation, it was cleaned up for a few years now it's going back to hell.

The original guy arrested was a parolee and was not supposed to have been in the bar. (ie: Parole violation). Shame on him. The police cameras may have saved his behind.

Firearms do not cause social decay and social decay does not cause firearms. People died and the newsparpers sold a few more copies.

[Remmah2]

20. 7 of 8 shooting victims had criminal past

NOBODY deserves to be a victim, but as a law abiding citizen I will not give any more ground to gun control because of the deeds of a few individuals. Honest, peaceful law abiding citizens have compromised enough in the name of "sensible gun control". I will not be a victim nor will I tolerate the discrimnation against me for being a firearm owner.


From the Sunday 8/22/2010 Buffalo News:
http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article168979.ece



7 of 8 shooting victims had criminal past
Author: Kevin Noonan

Published Date: Aug 22, 2010 8:06 AM
Last Updated: Aug 22, 2010 2:03 PM
Eight young people who grew up on Buffalo's streets were gunned down in a hail of bullets last weekend outside City Grill downtown, four of them fatally.

They left grieving families. Mournful friends.

And arrest and conviction records.

Their records indicating past or present associations with crime begets a certain lifestyle risk, law enforcement and criminology experts say.

"A felony prosecution or conviction increases your statistical likelihood of becoming a victim of a crime, and it's particularly true for men and particularly true for African-Americans," said Yvonne Downes, a criminal justice professor at Hilbert College. "It doesn't mean that the people deserved it or in any way had it coming."

Added a local law enforcement official who asked not to be named: "There were some very dangerous people there. There were numerous gang bangers and other unscrupulous people. But there were a lot of good people."

Family members, friends and community leaders say the victims were working to be better people and certainly didn't deserve the fate that befell them Aug. 14.

Records from the Buffalo Police Department and Erie County Court show that seven of the eight people had brushes with the law at some point in their lives, including two arrested just last month on charges involving firearms. Records also showed:

One of the dead victims was on probation and forbidden from being inside any establishment serving alcohol.
Two of the eight who were shot served state prison time on weapons or assault charges.
Five are convicted felons.
Six have been arrested by Buffalo police since 2008.

[shadowrider]

21. Color me surprised n/t

[Remmah2]

22. Bars are also open til 4am in Buffalo. nt

nt

[shadowrider]

26. 10 p.m. or 4 a.m. doesn't matter. These were bad guys with records

if not at this restaurant, then somewhere else.

[slackmaster]

23. What Would Captain Renault Say?

[Katya Mullethov]

30. What on Earth brought you to Buffalo ?

[slackmaster]

33. My health. I came to Buffalo for the waters.

:hide:

[cleanhippie]

24. I fail to see the relevance of what you highlighted that has any bearing on the story.

The shooting occurred outside, so what was your point in 1) posting this and 2)highlighting "bar area of the restaurant"?

[PavePusher]

27. Mere conflation.

And poor conflation at that.

Teh fail, it bernz.

[cleanhippie]

28. its bernz bad!

[spin]

29. I agree that alcohol and firearms is a bad mix ...

and there are plenty of stories on the net that prove this. Responsible gun owners are aware of this and avoid drinking and handling firearms just as responsible drivers avoid drinking and driving.

It appears that the person you mention, Tommy Dates, was a witness and was not involved in the incident. The fact that he was in a bar area and perhaps even had been drinking might influence his testimony but has little to do with firearms. Maybe I missed something, if so please point it out.

[shadowrider]

31. Hint: You didn't miss anything n/t

[spin]

32. It's always important to educate people that firearms and alcohol don't mix ...

I have no problem with people posting stories in the Gungeon that illustrate that point. I also have no problem with people posting stories that show that it's very important to keep firearms out of the hands of young children.

Such stories can be used as an argument for why all firearms should be banned. The counter argument is that while people do misuse firearms while drinking and some parents ignore basic firearm safety involving children, firearms are often used to safe lives far more times than they are misused.

Still such stories are, in my opinion, useful as they may cause someone to avoid mixing booze and guns or to secure their firearms properly when they have children.

What I can determine from the original post is that a person who was in a bar area of a restaurant was interviewed by a newspaper on a shooting that he was not involved in. Apparently he was sober enough to provide some insight of what happened to the reporter. There is no reason to believe that he owns or has any interest in firearms. I fail to see why the original poster bothered to post the story. It's irrelevant to the discussion on this sub forum.

[oneshooter]

34. Perhaps to prove his own irrelevancy. n/t

[spin]

35. That could be. Seems like a waste of time to me ...

but I am still posting on this somewhat foolish thread.

[shadowrider]

36. I don't have a problem with stories involving LEGAL owners who act stupidly

However, this incident involved bad guys and the witness was in a bar area (which was highlighted in bold as if that's a bad thing).

No, nothing was missed.

[one-eyed fat man]

37. Have you noticed ?

Gangsters shooting gangsters. A ruckus witnessed by a guy in a bar.

You so desperately tried to make it to sound like an Syrian wedding gone bad..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGdUoAWopPQ