Bryan Convenience Store Clerk Speaks Out After Robbery

[Bold Lib]

"They entered the store very fast, they were real quick and straight ahead in here and put the gun in my forehead and I was totally taken by surprise," said "Mike" as he's known by, who works at the Prince Food Mart in Bryan.

Friday evening Mike was working at the Prince Food Mart in Bryan when three men came inside for one thing.

With recent robberies including the April 2 death of College Station convenience store clerk Johannes Kinny racing through his mind, Mike decided to fight back with his Glock 40 caliber pistol.
http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/100821069.html

I'm glad no innocents were hurt in this incident. Trusting a criminal to not harm you in a robbery is a fools gamble.

[Vinnie From Indy]

1. Trusting a criminal to not harm you in a robbery is a fools gamble.

Just curious, but why do police always tell victims to give up the money and not fight back?

[Bold Lib]

3. Don't know. It is very bad advice.

[Glassunion]

4. It's a good idea if you are unarmed not to fight back.

But remember, it's only a good idea if you are unarmed. The police when they tell you these things are assuming you are unarmed.

If the robber decides to rape, beat or kill you after the robbery, then you are going to have to deal with that. Unarmed you have almost zero options left to you if you have no avenue of retreat.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/24-7/2531986,garfield-park-robbery-072510.article
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2010/06/birmingham_man_robbed_and_shot.html
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/01/safrican-police-american-shot-robbed-johannesburg-street-life-danger/
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/teenager-shot-during-south-austin-robbery-865270.html
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2010/08/17/1232979/teens-robbed-one-shot-in-back.html
http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/crime/man-escapes-kidnapping-w-gunshot-wound
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/7973970/
http://www.kfdm.com/articles/orange-38641-hospital-staff.html
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Man-Robbed--Shot-Outside-Miami-Dade-Daycare-Center-98837759.html
http://www.heraldsun.com/view/full_story/8795847/article-Men-robbed--1-shot-at-I-85-rest-stop-in-Granville?instance=most_recommended
http://www.wlox.com/Global/story.asp?S=12943600

I look at it like this. If someone pulls a gun on me and demands money I will give them the money and try not to do anything to upset the person, but it does stand to reason that the robber may wish to do me more harm. It is not my responsibility to determine their motive. If a robber pulls any weapon and demands money, all I need to know is that they are threatening me with a weapon, therfore my life is in danger. If I have an oportunity to remove myself from the situation safely or draw my own weapon, I will.

Situational awareness goes a long way. Avoiding the situation is always best.

[zipplewrath]

8. Chose where you die

There was a guy that went around doing those safety lectures to womens groups. He made it on the news a few times. He was a former police officer. He had slightly different suggestions than the norm. In this situation he probably would have advised the guy just turn over the cash. But he used to advocate against being taken hostage and hauled away. He would suggest that if they were trying to pull you into a car or van, you basically fight to the death. If they are trying haul you away, they probably are trying to get you to a place where they can kill you unseen. Better to keep them exposed, and have half a chance of being helped, even if you get shot or stabbed. "Throw your purse and run" was a big one. He said they'll chase the purse first, and won't chase you for long.

[benEzra]

34. Exactly. If someone wants to take you to Crime Scene #2...

it is most likely because they want to do something to you that they don't feel safe doing at Crime Scene #1. Better to fight like heck, even get shot or stabbed, in a public parking lot where EMS and police can respond (and likely save your life even if you are seriously injured), rather than to have to make some sort of last stand at some location the predator has selected ahead of time for whatever endgame he has in mind.

[ManiacJoe]

5. Liability reasons.

Because all they can communicate will be reduced to a sound bite, trying to communicate about when and how to fight back will not work. Plus, back in the Olden Days it was reasonable advise. Unfortunately, society has long since moved past that point.

[jeepnstein]

39. Because we're not in the self defense training business.

There is a time and place for everything. Some times it's OK to lose a little money and live to fight another day. Some times it's time to fight to live another day.

A police officer has no duty to save your life or to give useful advice on how to save yourself. The last thing an officer wants is to get dragged in front of a Jury when a person says "But Deputy Donut told me it was OK to shoot robbers." The only advice I ever give is "no warning shots". That will probably come back to haunt me some day.

[Glassunion]

2. If you give them what they want they will leave you alone.

So give them what they want.

He is just lucky the robbers did not take his gun from him and shoot him.

Using deadly force for just a few buck from someone else's cash register. That's an appropriate sentence.

Bunch of red-necks acting like Judge, Judy and Executioner.

Lot of ifs could have happened. I saw bullet holes in the windows. What if a bus full of toddlers were driving by?

He was more likely to hurt an innocent or himself than one of the "so-called" robbers.
:sarcasm:

I think that I got them all. Let me know if I left one out.

[zipplewrath]

6. This one

They found out later some of the guys were "regulars". And this was the second time he had been robbed, but the first time he had a gun. He's playing the escalation game. Next time, they shoot first.

It's not exactly an advocation of being unarmed, more like an advocation of more preventative measures up front, so the guh never needs to be used.

[Glassunion]

7. I anticipated that....

That is why I am a member of the NRA. Remember their stated goals(only if you know the secret handshake) is "any kind of gun for everybody".

With that escalation, you have to stay ahead of the game. Get a bigger gun, and shoot the unsavory person as they enter.

If they come back with more people, it would be a good thing that you picked up that Howitzer.

If they come back with an entire company, good thing you invested in that Daisy Cutter.

If they come back with the whole army...

Nuke... Fin

[zipplewrath]

9. You won't see them coming

They'll shoot you before you see them.

Banks didn't arm their tellers, they put up bullet proof glass.

Reduce the threat, don't escalate the violence.

[Glassunion]

12. Reduce the threat, don't escalate the violence.

Now that's just silly. If I do that, I won't get to use my Howitzer.

[zipplewrath]

16. You may not any way

spend it on toys you get to use, not just die owning.

They have nice expensive body armor you might like.

[Glassunion]

17. What fun would that be?

If I can't level 40 square blocks because I think that some "customer" might be lifting a bag of M&Ms, than what's the point?

If a car with tinted windows and a tin can for a muffler rolling up on me with bass thumping is not an excuse for depriving a 4 mile radius of oxygen, and setting it up to the same tempurature as the surface of the sun, then I don't know what is?

Remember, it's for our children.

[zipplewrath]

19. Don't ya have to torch the ammo store

Dat's what Rambo did.

[Glassunion]

21. Funny thing about Rambo...

Stallone has a carry permit for a handgun in CA.

He does not think anyone(else) should have a handgun, and is a supporter of the Brady Campaign.
Good for me, not for thee...


"I could have killed 'em all, I could kill you. In town you're the law, out here it's me. Don't push it. Don't push it or I'll give you a war you won't believe. Let it go. Let it go."

[Euromutt]

41. "Reduce the threat, don't escalate the violence"

Now, I have to state upfront that my perceptions are heavily colored by having been on the headquarters staff of the parent brigade of three rotations of Dutchbat to Bosnia-Herzegovina, and by further studying the Bosnian war while working for the Office of The Prosecutor of the UN International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, oh, and in dealing with bullies in the schoolyard, but in my experience--both direct and vicarious--there is no better way to "reduce the threat" than by demonstrating to any potential aggressor that you are willing and able to "escalate the violence."

When it's known that you responded to one bully's taunts by jumping him and repeatedly banging his head against the flagstones (while the teachers/playground monitors weren't watching), any other would-be bullies will decide to leave you alone.

In Bosnia, the Danish contingent of Nordbat brought a platoon of tanks with them, which provoked worried noises from UNHQ about "escalation." But when the Bosnia Serbs tried to fuck with Nordbat (and UNPROFOR BH-Command gutlessly but characteristically refused a request for air support), the Danes brought in their tanks, who proceeded to kick ass and take names, probably to an extent in violation of the UN mandate (not that you'll find that in any report). Similarly, in Britbat's area of operations, local militia roadblocks (usually Bosnian Croat) where aid convoys got harassed a little too often started to come under attack by parties unknown during the night. Come the morning, the roadblock would be found trashed, and everyone who'd been manning it dead as a doornail.

What's really remarkable is that every time UNPROFOR "escalated the violence," they succeeded in reducing the threat. In spite of repeated prognostications that use of force by UNPROFOR would lead to retaliation by the warring parties, the evidence is that what actually led to escalation was perceived displays of weakness on UNPROFOR's part. Bullies don't like to mess with people who fight back.

[oneshooter]

42. I would hazard a guess that

you would be for a surrender to the japanese on 8 Dec. 1941.

"don't escalate the violence."

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[shadowrider]

10. Let me know where you find that Daisy Cutter, the gun shop I go to says they've sold out

To NRA members who knew the secret handshake and the code word (obtained from a decoder ring in a box of cracker jacks)

[Glassunion]

11. I just sold all of mine to some

Upstanding gentlemen at the last gun show I did in AZ. I had a Border Town Blowout Sale. They paid cash!!! Tee Hee...

By the way, why do only white people get to eat Jacks? But then again our box label is a bit offensive.

[shadowrider]

15. Hey, I'm a white guy and I don't eat them (health reasons)

I just buy them to see what kind of sneaky goodies/giveaways the NRA has buried in the box. I hope the next one I get has a full-auto AK, that would be way cool..:)

[Bold Lib]

13. "The chair is against the wall. The chair is against the wall"

Is that the correct code phrase?

[shadowrider]

14. Actually, it's

John has a long mustache

Recognize that??

[Bold Lib]

18. The Longest Day?

[shadowrider]

22. Yup. Code phrase to the French that the invasion was coming.

You win! :)

[tourivers83]

36. John has a long mustache

Radio Free America Announcer: It's 11:59 on Radio Free America; this is Uncle Sam, with music, and the truth until dawn. Right now I've got a few words for some of our brothers and sisters in the occupied zone: "the chair is against the wall, the chair is against the wall", "john has a long mustache, john has a long mustache". It's twelve o'clock, American, another day closer to victory. And for all of you out there, on, or behind the line, this is your song.
Also from Red Dawn.:popcorn:

[damntexdem]

20. Trusting the convenience store clerk to hit a robber rather than a customer is a fool's gamble.

There is a reason business owners tell employees to not try to fight back.

This is one convenience store where I would avoid shopping (not that I ever get down to Bryan).

[shadowrider]

23. Don't fight back. Die meekly like a good victim. No freakin thanks!

[Glassunion]

24. I called it.

Yay me!

[shadowrider]

25. Congrats. You win a box of Cracker Jacks :)

[Glassunion]

26. TFF! +1 nt

[Bold Lib]

29. You sure did. Post number 2. The Meme Award?

[cowman]

27. I was wondering how long

it would take before someone posted that dumbass comment. Congrats, you win the prize.

[Glassunion]

28. Point of order Sir...

Check post #2.

[cowman]

30. You are absolutly right.

I stand corrected.

[PavePusher]

31. Surely you have evidence that this:

"Trusting the convenience store clerk to hit a robber rather than a customer is a fool's gamble."

...is the real-life trend, and not just the fevered imaginings of someone so biased that they can not accept numerical facts when presented?

Right?

[east texas lib]

32. The large convenience store franchises routinely purchase insurance policies...

On their clerks with the store being the beneficiary. So they don't want clerks packing due to potential liability but if a clerk gets whacked then hey, they're dead anyway so lets's make a buck or two. So you can't protect your own life but your death can at least be profitable for your employer. Crazy.

[DissedByBush]

33. Just remember the job of the police is to draw the pretty chalk outlines

After that they may catch the guy who did it.

They have no responsibility to keep you from getting killed in the first place.

[benEzra]

35. ...and that reason is, if the clerk is killed, the store generally doesn't have to pay squat...

and can just hire a cheap replacement, whereas in the far less likely event that the clerk does something stupid with a weapon, they could end up having to pay out some money.

From the standpoint of a corporation, excluding all moral considerations, it may be a rational calculus. From the standpoint of the human being who puts her life on the line every night by coming to work there (with a FAR higher risk of being murdered on the job than a police officer has), that calculus sucks.

I can think of at least a dozen incidents of convenience store clerks shooting would-be robbers, at least that many unarmed-and-compliant convenience store clerks being murdered by robbers just for the heck of it (including one a block and a half from my house). Whereas I can't recall ever hearing of a convenience store clerk accidentally shooting a customer. Robbers have their own reasons for picking times and places where there are few customers (witnesses and complications), and as a result the clerk is unlikely to have to defend herself in a crowded environment.

[Euromutt]

37. Isn't it remarkable how many of the same posters who foment...

...about how corporations are the root of all evil in America today will absolutely support those very same corporations when they tell their employees not to employ force (especially using firearms) in self-defense?

[PavePusher]

38. I am shocked, shocked I say...

to learn that there is hypocracy in the anti-Civil Rights movement.... :rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8974027&mesg_id=8979405

[Bold Lib]

40. Thanks for the link to the hypocrisy.

[spin]

43. If I ever have to work in a convenience store ...

I'll carry concealed.