Fighting "street guns" in Charleston, W. Va.

[spin]

August 18, 2010
Pistol toll: Illegal street guns

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- America's terrible gun murder rate is only slightly linked to shotguns and rifles of hunters -- and it doesn't stem much from legal handguns of licensed owners. Instead, the world-record killing and mutilation arise chiefly from illicit pistols carried by street thugs. Uncountable millions of the weapons pollute America.emphasis added

***snip***

Now -- hurrah -- city, county and federal authorities have teamed up in a joint crackdown. "Project Gun Safe" was announced Monday by Charleston Police Chief Brent Webster, Kanawha prosecutor Mark Plants and U.S. Attorney Booth Goodwin. Here's how the strategy will work:

* Charleston will pay $100 bounty to any anonymous tipster who identifies an illegal gun-carrier, leading to arrest and conviction.

* Charleston also will give a $100 "buyback" payment to anyone who turns in a pistol -- "no questions asked," Chief Webster said. Large-scale buyback days will be scheduled.

* Charleston also will invite all law-abiding gun owners to register their pistols, listing models and serial numbers, which can be used for identification if the weapons are stolen. Each cooperative owner will be given a free trigger lock -- perhaps averting tragedy if children find the guns.

* Public school sessions will be held to warn youths of the pistol peril. Ministers from high-crime neighborhoods praise this approach.

* The county and federal prosecutors promise maximum punishment of all offenders who use guns. U.S. Attorney Goodwin said at the announcement meeting:

"Gun violence, as everyone in this room knows, damages the fabric of a community like no other. Often it sparks a cycle of retaliation that lasts for years and sparks anger and bitterness. ... The best way to stop it is to get guns out of the hands of offenders."

Chief Webster said the three-way gun-control plan isn't aimed at legitimate pistol owners. "This is about street crimes, and we're going to be very mindful of that," he said.emphasis added
http://www.wvgazette.com/Opinion/Editorials/201008180591

The program has met with some criticism from Pro RKBA organizations.

August 19, 2010
Gun rights organization takes aim at Charleston

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Leaders of West Virginia's largest gun rights lobby are taking aim at Charleston's latest gun control initiative.

Earlier this week, Charleston Police Chief Brent Webster announced Project Gun Safe, a multi-pronged program asking the local community to help police get guns off of the city's streets.

The program includes a gun buyback program for unwanted guns, $100 to informants who give police information that leads to an arrest for an illegal weapon and an option to allow citizens to write down the manufacturers and serial numbers of all their weapons and give the information to the police department in case the weapons are stolen, lost or turn up in a crime.

Although Webster said registering their guns with the city was entirely voluntary, the thought of turning over lists of firearms to city officials didn't sit well with members of the West Virginia Citizens Defense League, a lobbying group and the state's largest organization of gun owners.

"The definition of voluntary is always going to be questionable if the guy asking you to volunteer has a gun, a badge and the power of the government behind him," said West Virginia Citizens Defense League president Keith Morgan.

Morgan, a Charleston resident, said the citizens defense league has several hundred members throughout the state. The group lobbies on gun rights issues, and was active in helping convince state lawmakers to pass the state's castle doctrine law in 2008. The law puts into writing West Virginia citizens' right to use deadly force to defend themselves in their own homes.

Morgan and other members of the defense league fear that registration -- voluntary or otherwise -- is the first step in an outright ban on guns. "Gun registration is a necessary prerequisite to gun confiscation," Morgan said in a news release this week.
http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201008190664

[Euromutt]

1. "Gun violence damages the fabric of a community like no other."

I'm inclined to say that's a flawed premise. The fact that high levels of gun violence are occurring is a sign that "the fabric of a community" has already been severely damaged, and going after the firearms is treating a symptom while ignoring the cause. I won't deny that firearm-related violent crime exacerbates the damage, and there's nothing wrong with trying to "get guns out of the hands of offenders," but if that's the main focus of your effort you are going, to use a Dutch expression, to be "mopping with the faucet running."

[spin]

2. They did say that they were after illegal street guns ...

Chief Webster said the three-way gun-control plan isn't aimed at legitimate pistol owners. "This is about street crimes, and we're going to be very mindful of that," he said.
http://www.wvgazette.com/Opinion/Editorials/201008180591

It will be interesting to see if this effort actually reduces crime. I personally predict that it will reduce violence significantly if it is enforced properly.

I agree with your point that the fabric of the community has been damaged and this effort will do little to change the base causes of the problem.

I believe that an important first step is to legalize some drugs (such as marijuana). We also need to find ways to improve our educational system as to produce educated high school graduates that can successfully go to college or at least have enough education to find good jobs. Most importantly we need to provide good jobs for people to work at.

[Bold Lib]

3. I have a real problem with "no questions asked" buy back programs.

This turns into a quick 100 bucks for stolen guns and an easy way to dispose of crime guns. It is also a way to loose historic firearms that are worth a small fortune. I'd love to see a historically minded FFL there at the buy back to give appraisals of the guns being turned it. I'd rather see guns sold to people that will appreciate them through a FFL dealer than melted down as scrap.

The other problem I have is the "voluntary" registration program. Someone more knowledgeable please chime in, but I seem to recall there is some Federal law on the books that makes this illegal for city's or states to do.

edit: I do like the idea of the hotline to turn in people that are illegally carrying. I'm sure the gangs will be calling in their rivals in record numbers.

[spin]

4. I agree that this approach has some problems ...

I also have problems with the gun buy back portion and the voluntary registration. I can easily create a list of my firearms and their serial numbers and if stolen, I can report the info to the police.

I personally feel that if the law enforcement groups do focus on the criminals who carry illegally, it will be successful. I won't reduce all crime, but it will take some of the more dangerous people and their guns off the street, hopefully for a long time.

[Katya Mullethov]

5. If anything comes of it

It will have been the popularization of the term "street gun " . This is required in order that we can begin learning about "street gun crimes" and "street crime gun dealers" and the ever looming "street crime gun lobby " .

[spin]

6. Yes, "street gun" is a new term ...

It appears that it will apply to illegal firearms and those that carry and use them.

This might well be a major improvement. Legally owned firearms won't qualify as "street guns".

It always been my opinion that gun control should focus on illegal firearms which are responsible for an overwhelming percentage of violent firearm tragedies.

[Euromutt]

7. I hope you're right, but I'm not counting on it

Because it seems to me that "street gun" could all too readily be a development of phrases like "<scary guns du jour> do not belong on our streets," "there are too many <scary guns du jour> on our streets," "we have to get the <scary guns du jour> off our streets" etc. Thus, the term "street gun" could be the next "assault weapon," a vaguely defined term that in practice will be applied to any gun the speaker doesn't like, from semi-auto Kalashnikov variants to (sub-)compact CCW pistols.

[SteveM]

22. Yep, this is the new "Saturday Night Special" of gun termenology...

The era of the cheap revolver is mostly dead; long-live the new era of negative aspersion. Gun-controllers/prohibitionists are quite effective in launching bushel-basket argot for MSM, which is still fumbling with "assault rifle," "assault-style rifle," "assault weapon," "Salt & Peppa," etc.

[jazzhound]

8. Have to agree with Euro on this one.

"Street gun" is a descriptor custom made for abuse by the chronically dishonest control contingent.

[Katya Mullethov]

9. Tell your children ! .....grimacing , as he white knuckles the lectern

The street guns of today are as much as ten times more powerful than those available just a decade ago Street guns have been found ingeniously secreted by street gun dealers in hollowed out books ................or as we see here...in the heel of a shoe .

[spin]

10. LOL. Good one...

[safeinOhio]

14. better term may be

illegal handguns. Ones in possession of some one not legally able to own, possess or carry.

I like the voluntary registration part and the turn in the bad guy part. $100 to turn in a gun is fine with me also. At least the crooks will have to cough up more than that to illegally purchase one on the street.


This is a great idea and a good start. Still the zealots will always find some tin foil plan to disarm the law abiding citizen in their one track minds.

[DissedByBush]

11. I need to bulk-up on a bunch of cheap guns

You know, junk, $50 a piece at most.

Them I'm hitting one of these buyback programs.

Here's 100 guns, gimme my $10,000.

[Bold Lib]

12. I picked up an old rusty revolver once for $15.00.

[virginia mountainman]

13. Some perspective..

Charleston WV is an oddity, it is a very pro-gun state, with a very pro-gun people, but it has the oddity of having anti-gunners in positions of power over the capitol city. It is the ONLY bastion in the whole state where the preachings of the VPC and the Brady bunch, are given any acknowledgment at all, If the Republican Paul Helmke, or Mike Bloomberg, was to show their face in any OTHER portion of the state, they would be promptly tarred and feathered, tied to a section of split rail, and toted out of town, in front of a jeering crowd.

Every couple of years, their is a "gun control" dust-up in Charleston, with the mayor and police chief right in the middle of it. This time is no different.

As someone who is in Charleston WVA several times a week, due to my job, and know dozens of residents, and consider several of them, good friends, believe me when I say, the people are very pro gun, I have yet, to see a single private busness in the area marked "no guns"

Registration is not going to fly, they can forget about it, even if it is voluntary, just talking about it causing such a stink, that their may be political consequences for even pushing it.

As for the "get $100 for turning in someone with a gun" that will help solidify any drug dealers posistion....If he notices competition starting to hang around, he will make a "illegal gun" call to the police, and have THEM, shut his competition down...Same said for people with personal grudges.

A simple fact of life up in those rugged hills, is that the MAJORITY of West Virginia folks, have all types of guns in their vehicles. And MOST, do not have CCW permits..This is a cultural thing, and MOST cops (outside Charleston) just over look it. Why?? because they where raised in West Virginia themselves, and they understand the fact that "this is just the way it is, and no matter what the law says, this is the way IT IS GOING TO BE". just about the only time people get busted for "illegal concealed weapons" is when they are causing trouble, and oddly enough, that is accepted by the locals as a good thing. This being said, before I digress too far...

If you have a "beef" with someone, odds are they have a gun, under the seat, and if they live in the area of Charleston, or works their, this gives you a way to "get even" with them, and get a wad of cash for YOUR trouble.

The only thing this "talk" is doing, is successfully bringing up gun control, three months before an election.

PS, I will make a posting, if I hear of a gun buy back, I have several "junk" guns myself...

[spin]

15. You actually have to have a CCW permit to legally have a loaded firearm in your car?

Damn. I'm glad I live in Florida.

We can carry a loaded firearm in our vehicles without a concealed weapons permit as long as it is "securely encased", for example in a closed glove box.

The simplest and most common definition of "securely encased" means it is in a holster or gun rug that is snapped, zipped, or strapped, or in a box or container with a closed lid or top so that the lid or top must be physically opened in order to use or fire the weapon. Securely encased would also allow the firearm or weapon to be placed inside a closed glove compartment or closed console of a vehicle. The firearm may be fully loaded at the time, however, it cannot be concealed on your person unless you also have a CWP.
http://www.floridafirearmslaw.com/Carrying-Concealed-Firearm-Concealed-Weapon.html

[oneshooter]

16. In Texas the law says that the handgun has to only be concealed. No permit needed. n/t

[virginia mountainman]

17. To have it hidden....YES...

Under the seat, in the glove box, or in the console, are big "no no's" in WV without a CCW permit... But most people do it anyway.

Lay it out in the seat, put it up on the dash, and your "OK"!

West Virginia is a traditional open carry state but there are some grandfathered local open carry bans not preempted by state law, such as the City of Charleston, and South Charleston. There is complete state preemption of all firearms laws, but any local laws passed before preemption remain in effect.. You can OPEN CARRY a gun in your vehicle in most of the state, I am not so certain about City of Charleston or South Charleston... I really never dug into the open carry law very deep, as I Conceal carry my sidearm..

[benEzra]

18. A quibble...

America's terrible gun murder rate is only slightly linked to shotguns and rifles of hunters -- and it doesn't stem much from legal handguns of licensed owners. Instead, the world-record killing and mutilation arise chiefly from illicit pistols carried by street thugs.

It doesn't have much to do with the shotguns and rifles of nonhunters, either. Or the legal handguns of unlicensed owners.

Contrary to what appears to be a popular belief in the MSM, the overwhelming majority of lawful U.S. gun owners are nonhunters.

At least the article gets the "who's really the problem" part right, although I fail to see how asking for voluntary registration by the lawful and nonviolent accomplishes anything related to fighting criminal violence.

[jeepnstein]

19. Poor Charleston...

They've got a problem alright. A lot of it has to do with the interstate running through it and the drug trade. Lots of gang members looking to increase their money flow to the mother club will move into a relatively open city like Charleston and set up shop. The result is an increase in violent crime. The big issue with dealing drugs in Charleston is they get lots of competition from "legitimate" doctors running pain clinics. Gang rivalries aren't as big of a deal as they are in more established areas. There's so much money to be made that defending turf takes a back seat to just keeping up with demand.

As far as this program being a success or adopted by other areas in West Virginia, forget about it. West Virginians are a different breed and they intend to keep it that way.

[Callisto32]

20. We all know the solution to this.

END THE DRUG WAR!

[spin]

21. +1000 (n/t)

[SteveM]

23. I don't have an argument against #1 (how effective it will be, I don't know)...

#2 is a good way to pick up some cash (or groceries if you live in Austin, TX), but has not been shown to be effective.

#3 is a no-go. Why don't people list their arms & serial numbers in their computers, or even on hard-copy along with your old phone bills? Perhaps they already do.

#4 is suspect. I'm in favor of a comprehensive public education program concerning the uses and safety concerns of firearms, but I'm not sure a "just say no" approach to guns is any more effective than it has been with D.A.R.E. programs (long discontinued, here in Austin).

#5 may work, but we have been through this: what is bargained away when getting a thug to cop a plea is usually the gun charge.