Rand Paul At Machine Gun Rally: 'We're Clinging To Our Guns, Our Religions And Our Ammunition'

[RamboLiberal]

Kentucky Senate candidate Rand Paul appeared at a three-day Kentucky machine gun shoot and show over the weekend to rally support among the state's gun owners.

"I don't have to apologize for supporting the second amendment. I support it and will continue to support it no matter what the liberals say," the Tea Party-backed Republican told a crowd of Second Amendment devotees, according to a report from The Daily Caller.

"The president says that you're out here in the middle of the country clinging to your guns and ammunition. What I tell the President is, 'We're clinging to our guns, our religions and our ammunition,' Paul continued.

The Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot takes place twice a year, and includes "four rounds of firing at a wide variety of appliances, vehicles, pyramids of tires, and barrels of fuel with pyrotechnic charges attached" that, when hit by gunfire create "large and small mushroom clouds and fire balls from hell!!"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/11/rand-paul-guns-religion_n_758001.html

[sufrommich]

1. Nobody panders to the mouth breathers like the GOP. nt

[YOY]

2. If only they had some kind of evidence someone was taking any of the above away...

They might actually not sound bug-fuck crazy.

[tularetom]

3. I hate to admit this

I think the Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot is about the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard of.

But I think it'd be a kick to do it.

[RamboLiberal]

6. I kind of agree with you

IMHO many of the attendees are from the looney tunes RW and even beyond RW. They are who make me concerned.

But yeah it would be fun to shoot some of those guns.

[one-eyed fat man]

120. You'd miss all the WW2 vehicles.

There are usually at least a couple of tanks in attendance at the shoot. Scads of military vehicles from the 30's to present. There is normally a UH-1H hopping rides and an OH-6 Loach doing rides as well. You will see everything from a Hotchkiss revolving cannon to Vulcans and miniguns.

Of course, the dickheads with an "agenda" zero in on the WW2 re-enactors area. They ignore the 82d Airborne guys, the 3rd Armor Division guys are never seen. But they make sure they get plenty of shots of the German re-enactors.


Spots on the main line are reserved years in advance. The lower range has folks that "rent" guns to shoot. There are flamethrowers. There are competitions. You might even see folks you might know......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIZpCLvXsoM

[gratuitous]

4. "Barrels of fuel with pyrotechnic charges attached"

Tell me again that one about "responsible" gun owners, because it never fails to crack me up. Fire balls from hell! Who wouldn't want to see that? From a safe distance, of course. Besides, it's just for funsies. Americans like stuff blowin' up reel gud. Unless they're involved in the explosion, then it's a casus belli for some luckless foreign country and its citizens. Where more stuff can blow up.

Yee fucking haw, motherfuckers. It's shit like this that perpetuates the stereotypes.

[slackmaster]

13. Blowing stuff up is fun. Haven't you noticed how people always laugh after explosions?

As long as someone's not trying to blow you up, it's highly entertaining.

Don't knock it until you've tried it.

[gratuitous]

25. I said "Who wouldn't want to see that?"

Well, unless they've actually survived an explosion, then they're just some Captain Buzzkills trying to say that sometimes explosions aren't solely for our personal entertainment. And we can ignore those people anyway; a lot of them are foreigners who don't understand why we had to blow up their house or their neighborhood, and who needs to deal with a bunch of ingrates? Cases in point:

http://www.kateholt.com/galleries/editorial/iraq

[SteveM]

144. No, it's s... like YOURS which perpetuates the stereotypes...

Why are you so hopped-up hateful that you focus in on pyrotechnics? This is Hollywood stuff, and the simple effects of expert gunnery demonstrations.

The reason you are "cracked up" is because you BELIEVE YOUR stereotypes; you only use the expression "stereotypes" so you can deny ownership of your own prejudice. You don't fool anybody for one second.

[arbusto_baboso]

5. Sorry, machine gun owners are not "simple sportsmen".

How many fucking rounds do you need to hunt deer, anyway?

No, these are the militia assholes, stockpiling for their uprising. (Which will likely never come, since they are all chicken-shit cowards.)

[slackmaster]

14. They're wealthy gun collectors, who pursue a hobby under some of the strictest rules and regulations

Of anyone in the country.

How many fucking rounds do you need to hunt deer, anyway?

I'm not aware of any state that permits hunting deer or anything else with automatic weapons.

[arbusto_baboso]

17. And I'm not aware of any legitimate purpose for owning a machine gun, either.

And I've personally fired some of those mother fuckers. I know what destruction they can wreak.

[slackmaster]

19. Who appointed you as judge of what constitutes a "legitimate" purpose for owning something?

:rofl:

Your being "unaware" of something just means you don't know something.

[arbusto_baboso]

21. Who said anythuing you post makes any fucking sense?

Because I haven't seen any sensible posts from you yet.

Your stand on Prop 13 is especially laughable.

[slackmaster]

23. "anythuing"

:rofl:

Your stand on Prop 13 is especially laughable.

My stand on Prop 13 is in line with the views of a large majority of California voters.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. Wow. Laughing at obvious typos.

How mature.

[slackmaster]

33. It's not just the typo, CPD. The individual to whom I replied has a long history of rude, degrading

Posts; including a snobbish attitude about pretty much everything including his own perception of his intelligence.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

35. Hmmm. Interesting. Tell me more.

[slackmaster]

36. Waste of 1s and 0s

:hi:

[Paladin]

133. Wow. Sounds Like A Real Asshole. (n/t)

[PavePusher]

68. Your imagination... needs some exercise and expansion. n/t

[Callisto32]

79. So, I am sure you will support the state turning them all in first.

Since there is no legitimate use for them, and the ones that are state owned should at least be on easy to find manifests.

[Euromutt]

87. Freedom is all about letting other people do stuff you don't see the appeal of

As a rule of thumb, as long as it doesn't inflict any harm on any unwilling bystanders, there's no legitimate reason to prohibit it.

[safeinOhio]

95. Your are right.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/

WESTFIELD, Mass. — An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.

Now you can list all the life that has been saved by legal civilian machine gun owners over the last 10 years to make up for this one.

[Euromutt]

124. Right after you list all the lives saved by recreational mountaineering

Good grief, didn't we thrash that one out sufficiently already? Didn't it emerge that the "properly certified and licensed instructor" was in fact the spotty 15 year-old son of a buddy of the Pelham police chief, the latter being the actual owner of the Micro-Uzi? And since the victim's father was instructed to remain behind a restraining rope, we can reasonably say the victim was not, in fact, "under adult supervision" at the firing point.

I would also point out that I said "innocent bystanders"; since the kid who was killed was the one firing the SMG, he wasn't what you'd call a "bystander," now, was he?

But this example of horrible negligence aside, is that the way you approach every recreational activity? If one person dies, that's grounds to prohibit the entire activity? Say goodbye to recreational bicycling, mountaineering, sky-diving, SCUBA diving, and boating then. Never mind how many people manage to indulge in these activities without getting themselves killed, if just one person fucks up, we need to ban it completely.

I remember my first parachute jump; fixed line, steerable parachutes. Two of the guys in my five-man stick managed to put themselves in hospital, one of whom wound up a paraplegic. Why? Because, not to put too fine a point on it, they fucked up. They didn't pay attention during the classroom instruction the previous day, and failed to follow the instructions, in particular the one about not landing with the wind in your back. Should we prohibit sky-diving because two guys couldn't follow instructions and wound up getting hurt as a result?

[SteveM]

147. So, how many civilians have been killed by machine gun owners?

[Paladin]

154. Virtually None---Thus Proving That Gun Control Works. (n/t)

[slackmaster]

155. Overkill always works

:nuke:

[SteveM]

146. So, you now admit you can't hunt deer with machineguns? We knew that. nt

[DissedByBush]

153. "I want one" is a perfectly legitimate reason

You should NEVER have to explain why you want to exercise a right.

[Ter]

156. I can think of plenty of reasons

Don't buy one if you don't want one.

[spin]

40. Can you name a state where it is legal to hunt deer with a machine gun? ...

I can't.

I could waste a lot of time looking for states that allow deer hunting with machine guns but since you brought the idea up. why don't you back up your statement with some links. I don't believe any states allow such activity.

I personally don't hunt, although I know many people that do. Some of the hunters I know prefer to use bolt action or lever action rifles to hunt. Some like semi-auto firearms. No one has ever mentioned wanting to use a machine gun to hunt.

I'm sure some militia members own fully automatic weapons. I don't know any militia members nor do I wish to, but considering the expense of a fully auto firearm, I doubt that a large percentage own such firearms.

I do know people who legally own fully automatic weapons and they are not members of the militia.

[Katya Mullethov]

51. They can and do use them for feral hogs in Texas

You can dump the whole belt on em if ya like . It's your barrel .

[spin]

58. That's why I was careful to say deer hunting...

Feral hogs are a tasty pest. I would prefer to use a bolt action or semi auto rifle or a handgun to hunt them.

I don't hunt, but I have heard of hunters who were treed by feral hogs. Usually they dropped their rifle or shotgun to climb the tree. A handgun can be downright handy if that happens.

Feral hogs are VERY destructive to the environment. In Florida we can hunt them year around with no license.

Did I mention they are tasty?

[TheWraith]

114. Tell you what...

...if I send you some ammo, will you ship back a couple hams? :D

[RSillsbee]

64. Our FOs were known for calling fire missions on herds of feral hogs in Germany.

8 inch rounds don't leave much bacon behind

[era veteran]

139. A 152 mm M60 A2 HEP round eliminates feral hogs

A different hunting experience at Wildflicken.

[X_Digger]

62. Where does the second amendment mention hunting, again?

My copy doesn't.

[PavePusher]

67. Please continue to display your ignorance of firearms and laws.

It is quite entertaining and proves the RW fears are founded on a core of truth.

Thanks a fucking bunch.

[AtheistCrusader]

92. Actually, a lot of them are retired military

having served with honor, and they have nostalgia for the tools of the trade, like most tradesmen do.

[SteveM]

145. Some misconceptions, here...

"Sorry, machine gun owners are not 'simple sportsmen.'"

Once you are beyond the expense, the government intrusion, and the extra self-imposed security, what remains are "sportsmen," the most over-worked expression of our days; sort of like "professional leftist."

"How many fucking rounds do you need to hunt deer, anyway?"

What has this got to do with anything? At least 80% of gun-owners do NOT hunt. Explain what you mean.

"No, these are the militia assholes, stockpiling for their uprising."

Do you have any indication that these 'assholes' are stockpiling, since the U.S. Government keeps strict records of all full-auto weapons owners? Is there an uptick, or is it wishful thinking on your part. (I would point out if there was really an 'uprising' planned, I hardly think there would be such vast publicity and attention paid.)

[political_Dem]

7. Rand and his followers are also clinging to their racism too.

Make no mistake what the teabaggers stand for.

[safeinOhio]

96. along with NRA support from the KKK

http://www.knightriderskkkk.com/

The Knight Riders,Knights Of The Ku Klux Klan
Officially Endorses The NRA and Supports all
Their efforts to Protect Our Second Amendment
Rights.
God Bless Us All in our time of need.

[X_Digger]

100. Do I have to remind you that Hitler was a vegetarian again?

It's stupid to tar vegetarians with that brush- just as much as it is to try the same with the NRA.

It's downright mendacious to characterize a position based on who agrees with it- you see, that isn't something that you can control, nor is it indicative of the merits one way or another. Logically, that is a 'guilt by association' fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

[safeinOhio]

104. Ya mean "like birds of a feather..."?

[X_Digger]

105. Please, leave the second-grade logic at home. We want your 'A' game. n/t

[safeinOhio]

106. This is advanced stuff.

Everything you need to know, you learned in kindergarden.

[X_Digger]

108. Would that be appeal to ignorance, then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_ignorance

Seriously.. step it up, your kindergarten antics leave me less than impressed.

[safeinOhio]

107. Ok, Hitler was a vegetarian.

On a statistical basis, I'd bet almost all vegetarians do not support fascism. On the other hand, I'll bet most fascist support him.

Most right wing racist in America are firm supporters of the 2nd. Most left wing liberals, on the other hand, support reasonable gun laws.

[X_Digger]

109. *whoosh* I see you ducked as the point flew across your head..

That's what, an argumentum ad populum?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

[safeinOhio]

110. You are on thin ice with that one,

argument is not based on what many believe. It is based on which group a vast majority belong to. Kind of like the correlation between smoking and lung disease. The numbers point to a strong connection. I never asked for any one to believe what a majority believe. I asked to look at who believed what.

[X_Digger]

112. "I asked to look at who believed what."

And that makes any position more important, or correct, why?

It either ends up as one of two logical fallacies- an argumentum ad populum (when you agree with it) or a guilt by association (when you disagree).

Seriously, pick up a book on logic.

In the past month or so, I've seen you post:

-argumentum ad populum
-guilt by association
-red herring
-straw man
-'no true scotsman'
-ad hominem
-appeal to authority
-false dichotomy
-cum hoc ergo propter hoc
-appeal to emotion
-appeal to ignorance

[safeinOhio]

119. I disagree with your logic

and reading of logical fallacies. You are nice enough to never point out any of this with pro no restrictions post. Until I see you apply your logical fallacies to the other side, I'll fell free to disregard anything you post in reply to me.

Now, to really disprove my statements, just point out a couple of current racist, white power, antigovernment militias that want handguns registered or full automatics kept restricted. If there are none, my argument is more than valid.

[X_Digger]

122. It's valid because you say so?

It's not my logic you disagree with, it's logic in general, apparently.

Keep posting fallacies, I'll keep pointing them out. Gives me something to look forward to, since the substance of your arguments sure doesn't.

btw, what you just did? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof#The_fallacy_of_demanding_negative_proof

[RSillsbee]

117. Based on anecdotal evidence from THIS forum

Most of us liberal gun owners don'tsupport your version of reasonable restrictions.

[safeinOhio]

118. based on unrecs, it looks like

most here at DU don't agree with anything the usual posters put up.

[RSillsbee]

121. Just out of curiosity

What gun laws would you pass if you could?

I can guess three, Full registration, NICS for all sales and no full auto for anyone.

What else?

Disregard I started a thread you can answer there

[safeinOhio]

132. Kind of.

Registration and NICS checks on all handguns, not long guns.
I'm fine with the current laws on autos.
All of these pass the constitutional test as they are already the law in some states.

None of these would keep law abiding citizens from owning or carrying handguns. They would make it more difficult for others. It would also allow the tracing of handguns used in crimes back to the seller to the illegal possessors. These laws would not stop all handgun crimes, but would make it more difficult for criminals and straw sales. I would also like to see the same kind of laws now used in criminal sex offender cases. Many gun crimes are committed by a few hard core criminals and repeat offenders, just like sex crimes. If some one commits a felony with a gun they should be watched, register their address and address changes and be subject to being searched for guns anytime they come in contact with LEOs. I would also make "shall issue" the law of the land.

[X_Digger]

136. "All of these pass the constitutional test as they are already the law in some states."

Just because something is law doesn't mean it's constitutional.

If that were the case, neither Heller or McDonald would have resulted in the DC & Chicago ban respectively, being overturned.

No case, after Heller and McDonald has tested the constitutionality of such laws.

[safeinOhio]

138. because the SC decides something

it does not make it forever constitutional. Citizens United. A change in the make up of the court has shifted many cases. If the current court does decide that all of these type laws are constitutional, will you accept it, support it and call them constitutional?

[X_Digger]

140. The trend- in the courts, in the legislature, and in the public- is in the other direction.

Using the Heller & McDonald standard (such as it is), I doubt such a law would pass muster. 18 U.S.C. 926(2)(a) makes a federal registry illegal, and it's passage (1986) and the subsequent lack of repeal (even under very anti-gun congresses) since then indicates that the legislature would likely never pass such a law. And public opinion polls have the trend moving toward the same or less regulation.

Yes, courts change, but show me where the court has 'de-incorporated' / decreased freedoms. The trend is toward protecting more freedoms. We started out with a handful of rights enumerated specifically, and some vague quantity of unenumerated rights.

Via constitutional amendment, we've added more protections (women vote, no slavery, no poll taxes.) Via legislation, we've protected other rights (Civil Rights Act of 1964, EEOC, Americans with Disabilities). Via judicial decisions, we've protected more rights (selective incorporation of the Bill of Rights, Cantwell v Connecticut, Loving, Lawrence v Texas, Roe v Wade, Heller, McDonald.)

[backwoodsbob]

126. sorry but you are WRONG

I have been to several Knob's and enjoy them.

I haven't won any comp's yet but a friend here says he will let me use his match grade .223 next year so we shall see who is who :)

[jazzhound]

127. The only thing that the drive-by unrecs prove is the

cowardice of the unrec'ers. Nothing more. It's a cheap, cowardly and devious little tactic to prevent threads which threaten their unstudied beliefs from gaining wider exposure.

Your "logic" fails yet again.

[rrneck]

113. How does support

of the second amendment conflict with support of reasonable gun laws?

[Ter]

158. Reasonable gun laws?

No such thing.

[one-eyed fat man]

115. Democratic Convention

1924 ended with the biggest cross burning since Stone mountain. It was called the Klanbake for a reason!

New York, 1924: The Ku Klux Klan & the "drys" vs. Tammany Hall & the "wets"



The Klan was the action wing of the Democratic Party for over a century. All good card carrying life long yellow dog Democrats! After the White House screening D.W Griffith's "Birth of a Nation," an enthusiastic Woodrow Wilson remarked: "It is like writing history with lightning, and my only regret is that it is all so terribly true."

Wilson also felt the film "A presentation of history that would transform every man in the audience into a good Democrat!"

The Ku Klux Klan rose to prominence in Indiana politics and society after World War I. It was made up of native-born, white Protestants of many income and social levels. Nationally, in the 1920s, Indiana had the most powerful Ku Klux Klan and it was entrenched in the statehouse. There were more Klan members in Indiana both in raw numbers and as a percenatge of the population than in any of the eleven states of the former Confederacy!

[Ter]

157. Not exactly

They think the NRA is way soft. Most support the GoA, a no-compromise gun group.

[JuniperLea]

8. Because we all know how Jesus loves guns, right?

Murder, mayhem, killing... all Christian good stuff, right?

I admit I'm assuming the gun deal is about "self-protection" because no one needs a gun to hunt for food, right?

[arbusto_baboso]

9. You don't need a goddamn machine gun for "self protection" either.

Unless, of course, you actually expect a zombie attack.

[JuniperLea]

12. LOL! No kidding!

Even at that, they're freaking dead already! You might mince them up a bit, but the undead will always live on!

I can't think of a single reason why anyone should be allowed to have one in their home... and every reason I've ever heared "tried" was absolutel bullshit.

[PavePusher]

71. See my prior comment on "imagination". n/t

[Pavulon]

73. Zombies, no those should not be allowed in the home (nt)

[SteveM]

149. ...and they smell bad, too. nt

[lawodevolution]

111. I'll give you a good reason

Because I can decide for myself if I will own a machine gun or not and I do not have to ask you permission.

[slackmaster]

15. People buy machine guns for amusement and as financial investments

Nobody is going to use one for self-defense, because police often take into custody weapons that have been used defensively.

A person who owns a machine gun has invested dearly for the privilege of owning it.

[arbusto_baboso]

16. Your point being what?

Yes, it's a big investment. So were slaves. Doesn't make owning either one a good or correct thing.

[slackmaster]

18. My point is that "need" has nothing to do with the reasons people choose to own them

Yes, it's a big investment. So were slaves. Doesn't make owning either one a good or correct thing.

:rofl:

Writers who abuse hyperbole deserve to be taken out and shot.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

22. And what you are doing to me is...

...what?

I suggest that if you are unable to comply with the forum rules in replying to me, perhaps you would do better to put me on Ignore. I will of course continue to reply to your posts, whenever you post something that is irrational, indefensible, or factually incorrect.

[Callisto32]

83. "Writers who abuse hyperbole deserve to be taken out and shot."

Lolz.

[PavePusher]

72. Your conflation of legal and illegal activities...

says vile things about your agenda and intentions.

[Marengo]

103. What is "incorrect" about owning a machine gun? n/t

[SteveM]

150. Ahh, so you are an afficianado of Jim Crow gun laws; all this talk about slavery...

How do you think slavery was enforced? Not by some dishwater legislative resolution, but by prohibition of firearms -- when it came to blacks. And the prohibition continued after the Civil War. And the prohibition continued after the turn of the 20th Century. And the prohibition continues in (yep, you guessed it) Northern cities where Jim Crow has landed in his nice befouled nest.

"Good or correct thing:" what does this mean? Who arbitrates? How does this square constitutionally?

[provis99]

160. then why does the Ku Klux Klan stand against gun control?

if you people are going to continue to associate gun control with slavery, I will continue to point out that gun lovers are associated with the KKK.

[X_Digger]

161. And how many gun laws did the KKK get repealed?

Let's compare that to the number of actual Jim Crow laws passed as part of the 'black codes', or in the 60's in the wake of the civil rights clashes.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

27. Doubly senseless, then. -nt

[slackmaster]

29. Machine guns have been excellent as investments, especially since 1986

When the NFA registry was closed to new MG registrations for non-LEO owners.

Check your facts.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. I didn't say "senseless" in the sense of "not actually lucrative".

[slackmaster]

32. It seems to me that an investment that is actually lucrative, and is perfectly legal and harmless

Couldn't really be accurately described as "senseless".

[Katya Mullethov]

75. Profit and investment

are vulgarities to commies .

[spin]

43. Do you have any idea what a fully auto weapon is worth?

How much is this going to cost? Plan on spending a minimum of $4000. It really depends on what you want. Since no more can be manufactured (the 1986 ban), prices (and values) have gone nothing but up and up an up. Diminishing supply and increasing demand. If you think it sounds like too much to spend money on, I can show you how your machine gun investments will outperform your stock portfolio. Check with Forbes, Fortune 500 and other investment companies, machine guns have commonly vacillated between #1 to #3 for investment return. The longer you wait, the more it goes up in value, this is what investment companies do with us, buy and sell collections.
http://www.exeter-arms.com/faqs


What is the price of an M-16 rifle?

A fully transferrable M16, that is one made before the 1986 machinegun ban and thus ownable by a civilian with the correct tax stamp, sells in the neighborhood of $10,000.

US military contract price for the M16 was $420 per unit in 1988 when Fabrique Nationale won the contract from Colt.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_price_of_an_M-16_rifle

[Katya Mullethov]

61. An even better idea

Would be prices over time .

http://www.machinegunprices.com/html/beltfed.html

http://www.machinegunprices.com/html/machine_guns.html

She wore a sear necklace doo doo doo . Good thing it doesnt go all the way back to 1984 , or we would need two monitors to view to hockeystick for this one !

http://www.machinegunprices.com/html/auto_sears.html

[spin]

88. Thanks. Very Interesting. (n/t)

[safeinOhio]

97. Sounds like class warfare

and the rich win again.

[X_Digger]

101. That word, I don't think it means what you think it means.. n/t

[one-eyed fat man]

130. Are you envious?

Do people who know how to fly their own airplane bother you too?



How about those uppity snobs with sailboats?



Some folks work hard and spend their disposable income on stuff THEY like and don't feel they need your permission to enjoy THEIR hobbies.

[YOY]

26. Actually according to the Zombie Survival Guide automatic weapons are not too good...

You know...too many bullets and too heavy and the whole zombie horde cannot be stopped when you need to concentrate on head shots. Chainsaws are not too keen either surprisingly...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zombie_Survival_Guide#Chapter_2:_Weapons_and_Combat_Techniques

Stick with a bolt action rifle...and pick up a shaolin spade if you can...apparently they're perfect for zombies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monk%27s_spade

[proteus_lives]

49. Great book.

We were thinking along the same lines.

:fistbump:

[spin]

52. For a Zombie horde, I would perfer a semi-auto rifle ...

with a detachable magazine such as an AR-15.



For just one zombie, I would go with a 12 gauge shotgun, perhaps a coach gun.



Bolt action rifles are fine for long range sniping, but not as effective for close range combat.

But that's just me.

[Callisto32]

84. A suppressed .22 would seem about ideal.

Not for an attack by the horde, of course; but a scoped, suppressed bolt action .22 would seem ideal for taking out troublesome zeds one tiny hole at a time.

P.S. Don't forgot the subsonic ammo.

[benEzra]

142. Semiautos are perfect though...I see they picked an M1 carbine for the cover. :-)

[proteus_lives]

48. Full-auto isn't suited for a zombie attack.

A semi-auto AR15, shotgun or pistol.

You can't get head-shot accuracy with a machine-gun.

[RSillsbee]

65. What if you just want one?

EOS

[PavePusher]

69. "need"? I don't think that word means what you think it means... n/t

[Callisto32]

82. And you don't need the goddamn internet to speak....

What's your point, exactly?

[Marengo]

102. Who appointed you the arbiter of need? eom

[SteveM]

148. Why all this stuff about YOUR definition of 'need'? That isn't what the BOR is about...

People purchase and keep firearms for a myriad of purposes; in the case of full-auto, for collection and shooting. Since the arm is primarily about offensive capabilities (and not primarily self-protection) it is highly regulated. Personally, I keep a heavy revolver handy for self-protection -- far more preferable than a full-auto anything. But that is MY personal need, not yours or anyone's else.

[Callisto32]

81. Luke 22:36

[Wilber_Stool]

10. Now, where have I heard that before?

OH yeah, Joe Biden. He had to apologize. How times have changed.

[spanone]

11. i say, let's give everyone a machine gun....cling on

:sarcasm:

[spin]

54. I notice that many people who oppose RKBA ...

always try to say that those who favor RKBA want everybody to own a firearm.

Why is this???

[SteveM]

151. The fart-ferry wings in, hovers, cuts cheese, and wings away into the moon light.

[krispos42]

24. Now if only he believed as strongly in the other 28 amendments. n/t

[appal_jack]

46. I support your sentiment entirely...

I support your sentiment entirely Krispos, but the Constitution has only 26 Amendments in addition to the 2nd (27 Amendments passed and ratified so far).

That said, Rand Paul ought to read the 14th Amendment several times, so maybe your math is OK after all.

:hi:

-app

[Amaril]

28. If I roll my eyes any harder, I'm going to pull a muscle. n/t

[Evasporque]

34. Redneck Rampage....nt

[rustydog]

37. Something tells me the ONLY thing Rand Paul ever shot off

was his mouth.

[Swamp Rat]

38. ... and our corporate sponsors and donations.

[appal_jack]

44. +1 for awesome, Swampy, graphic truth!

Spot-on, my friend.

-app

[ileus]

39. I had wanted to attend this event this year...

But I was on call.... Maybe next year.

[Bold Lib]

90. I'd really like to make one of those some day too. Alas, I'm not funded enough to own a full auto.

My NFA's are all suppressors, and I have to build my own at that - to save money.

[slackmaster]

41. Drizzle, drazzle, drozzle, drome

Time for this one to come home.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

42. I've really been meaning to go to one of those knob creek shoots to shoot my machinegun...

The bad part is that if you're not renting a booth for the weekend (you need alot of full auto guns and ammo to rent a spot on the main firing line for 3 days) then you can't shoot your own firearm. A few years ago they would not reserve me a spot on the fireing line because I didn't have enough full auto hardware and other than that you have to rent someone else's firearm to participate in the shoot. They did not have a spot for people to just shoot thier own machineguns for little bit.

Lame.

[RSillsbee]

47. OK , since you're an owner

Please explain the appeal to those of us infidels. What was your rationale in purchasing a machine gun?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

53. "Why not" is really the best rationale.

As someone who enjoys firearms, I'm always looking for new firearms when I have the money to play around. I was young, had just started my career, and lived in mom's basement (no rent & saving up for a house/wedding). One day I was putzing around the internet and discovered that silencers and machineguns are perfectly legal in most states... and here in Ohio nearly anything goes. I mean, c'mon, it's a MACHINEGUN!!! That had to be all kinds of kickass to shoot. Unique too, I shot alot and never saw anybody but cops/military with full auto. Needless to say, in less than week I ordered my first silencer and machinegun once I found good prices and a local Class III dealer.

It's really not all that different than a regular gun... probably less usefull (skillfully) than a typical civilian firearm. In fact, if I ever had to go to my safe to defend myself, the machinegun might be THE LAST firearm I select (out of over a dozen). Although, it's no HK MP5 or anything very elite. It's a novelty, that's all. In a real situation where one has to use a gun for a purpose, semi-auto would be more effective.

Is it fun? Hell yeah. It's unique too. Gets alot of questions at the range. Is it worth it? Yup... it's only gone up in value (because registration of new MGs is banned). For anyone that has the buget for one I reccomend it wholeheartedly. They're really neat and unique, and STILL a good investment.

[Pavulon]

60. Commodity. Title 3 weapons are a limited pool of things

with an increasing demand. I looked at it a few years ago and for about $20,000 US you can buy two nice FNC carbines or a nice M4. The price for those has gone up since I looked and there is still a liquid market.

The reason I did not buy them is because the restrictions on where you can move and live are severe. County by county, and paying bribes through attorneys to get some elected scum to sign off on me moving two counties over is a pain and expense.

Plus I was not all that happy paying $20,000 US for a weapon I was issued and whose replacement value was about $800 US.

The background process is not terrible and to this date 2 have been used in crime, one by a police officer, since the 30's.

Machine guns pose no threat except in the mind of the media and ignorant.

[RSillsbee]

45. I never saw the appeal of an automatic weapon

Unless you're clearing a room but, if someone else wants to pay that kind of scratch to own own one why not?

There's a guy out here in my town that owns some machine guns (real .30 caliber crew served machine guns not sub guns), He charges something like a buck a round to shoot them. I suppose that would be a legitimate purpose for owning one.

[slackmaster]

50. Do you collect anything?

Coins, paperweights, stamps, Dresden figurines?

A firearm provides a concrete example of some of the best metallurgy and manufacturing available at whatever time it was made. Every firearm is permanently linked to some time in history.

People who collect machine guns are to typical gun collectors as people who collect US gold coins are to typical coin collectors.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

55. I think you're stretching the truth a little...

"A firearm provides a concrete example of some of the best metallurgy and manufacturing available at whatever time it was made..."

I would hardly call ANY of the MACs or Intratecs "state of the art".
At least the shitty WWII guns like the M3 and Sten were workhorses that fought a war.
:shrug: :yoiks:

[spin]

56. The fact remains that auto weapons are a great collector item and investment.

Unfortunately I don't own any.

Nor do I own gold that I bought years ago.

I have a 401k which has become a 201k.

I am kicking myself in the ass!

[PavePusher]

135. Actually, they are an excellent example...

of how good most other firearms are. :evilgrin:

[RSillsbee]

63. And they're welcome to do so

I just have no interest in owning one. Too many hours spent cleaning one in the Army or sitting on my ass at Wildflikken in January waiting to qualify on one I expect.

To answer your question I collect Craftsman tools. I have one of almost every tool they make

[slackmaster]

66. I'm sure that somebody out there would be just as perplexed about your tool collection as you are

about people owning machine guns.

[RSillsbee]

70. How many diferent ways can I say this?

I do not object to anyone (who can legally own a firearm) owning a machine gun. Are you clear on that point? They just don't appeal to me. Maybe a Thompson sub gun but beyond that nah.

[slackmaster]

78. I must have been thrown off by your use of the term "legitimate purpose" in reply #45

In our legal system, one does not need to prove to anyone else that one has a legitimate reason in order to be free to own, say, or do most things.

I don't presume to judge the legitimacy of other peoples' reasons for doing things, even things I don't personally like.

[Katya Mullethov]

57. SOMEONE GET ON THAT FIFTEEEEE !!

Maybe you had to be there .

[spin]

59. I've watched video. Looks like fun! (n/t)

[onehandle]

74. replied to wrong post. nt

[Pavulon]

76. How many killings with legal title 3 weapons in the US?

common sense appeals to me.

[Katya Mullethov]

77. One with a transferable .

A cop . But you knew that .

[Pavulon]

80. Yep, sounds like a "mass" murder situation. Big drama around these parts(nt)

[X_Digger]

85. Wait, that almost sounded like an opinion from you..

Sorry, just took me by surprise. More used to the hit-n-run tactic.

[Callisto32]

86. Actually....no.

Machine guns aren't really all that good for killing a lot of people. Sure, if you are lining them up for execution, maybe, but a machine gun is generally used for suppressing fire, where you shoot in the general direction of people to keep them from shooting at you... If full auto was really better at killing, they would not have taken it away from the rank and file troops on the newer M-series rifles.

[Euromutt]

89. That "bitter and clinging" line has got to be the most wilfully misinterpreted utterance in decades

Rand Paul is such a tool it beggars belief, and going by the article on the Teabaggers in Rolling Stone, he's a tool in every sense of the word. And making an utterance that in effect translates to "the president says x, yeah, well, he's absolutely right!" is hardly evidence of impressive rhetorical skills.

[Caliman73]

91. Agreed

The President was talking about how people become "one issue" voters or how they become so despondent about the circumstances in their lives that they focus on what they can control.

The media picked that phrase up and ran with it as an insult to the people of Pennsylvania.

[AtheistCrusader]

93. Rand is so damn dumb he can't even get the quote right.

"And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations"

Rand switched Ammunition and Religion.

[Historic NY]

94. And Jesus said get a fucking machine gun and shoot something.

[PavePusher]

98. what, exactly, is your point? n/t

[Historic NY]

99. Rand Paul the seeing eye Dr.

[57_TomCat]

116. Did not Jesus...

say something more along the (paraphrased) line of "if you do not have a sword then sell your cloak to get one".

"And Jesus said get a fucking machine gun and shoot something."
Posted by Historic NY

[spin]

123. I know a lot of people with concealed carry licenses...

none feel a need to buy a machine gun for self defense.

I know a hell of a lot of people who own firearms for home defense. None own a machine gun for that task.

I have fired fully automatic weapons in the past. They are great fun to shoot but expensive to own and to buy ammo for. If twenty or thirty people are attacking you, they might be useful for self defense.

The sword Jesus recommended obtaining was the equivalent of a handgun today not a machine gun.

[PavePusher]

125. I would like to have 3-round burst capability.

Efficiency, I likes it.

[spin]

128. I agree...

My experience has taught me that it's hard to fire two or three round bursts from a fully automatic weapon. Usually by the fourth or fifth shot, you start shooting butterflies.

[PavePusher]

129. But-but-but...

they're tasty! (You just gotta use itty-bitty teeny-weenie boolits....)

[one-eyed fat man]

131. A pox on 3 round burst!!

I have always maintained the "3 round burst" position is a mechanical substitute for proper training. My trigger finger is all the "burst control device" I need. It might be a good gadget for REMFS, fobbits, and staff weenies but I don't want troops that have to have them to be efficient or competent.

[PavePusher]

134. Pox?! A pox, you say?!

Your father was a hamster, and your mother.... :rofl:

But seriously, I'm just the guy that keeps your aerial battle taxi (aka, unlikey collection of rotating parts that rejects the ground by sheer uglyness... until it doesn't...) in functional condition, so the Air Force doesn't give me a lot of range time on the government dime(s). I don't fight fair, I fight to win, so I want every possible advantage I can get my greedy, greasy palms on.

YMMV... :toast: :patriot:

[one-eyed fat man]

137. That's the difference

You are in the Air Force, as an enlisted guy you just watch as the aircrew take off to carry the battle to a distant foe. With AP's to secure the base, except for climate, your job isn't much different whether you are at Bagram or at Bozeman. The Air Force issues you a weapon in the unlikely event you might need to fight your way to the Class VI store.
:evilgrin:
That the burst feature is meant to solve the problem of fire discipline by mechanical means you need to look no further than to note that the burst feature is conspicuously absent on weapons issued to SOCOM troops. That an ordinary infantryman, who, arguably, exists only to be the prime mover of 'US Carbine, caliber 5.56mm, M4' gets a piddly 40 rounds for annual live fire training underscores why there is a "burst" position on his weapon, while the M4A1 carried by special ops soldiers is not encumbered by an uneeded complexity.

Every soldier I knew who could really shoot, learned on his own time and dime. As a tanker and as a tank company First Sergeant, I was armed with a pistol.




:toast: :patriot: (I got an A&P/IA after I retired from the Army)

[PavePusher]

141. Well, the units I spent the better part of my career in...

we went to some "interesting" places where we were often our own security. I made a point of getting as much informal coaching as possible for myself and my airmen from the Army, Navy and PJ's we were playing delivery van for. But doing that on the fly, without interfering with the actual mission at hand, is a far cry from direct, concentrated training time.

Stupid Air Force.... My personal opinion is that every military member needs to be a rifleman (in at least the general infantry sense) before anything else. Unfortunately, the SecDef hasn't sought out my thoughts on the subject. Yet.

[one-eyed fat man]

143. Just giving you a hard time.

A little friendly inter-service rivalry. My brother-in-law was a crew chief in a unit with a "Pedro" callsign. He was in a few interesting places himself, two DFC's worth. The PJ's made sure he knew which end of an M-16 was which, too.

I agree with you, a soldier (sailor, airman, marine) that can't shoot is about as useful as a whore that won't fuck.

"Of every 100 men, 10 shouldn't even be there, 80 are nothing but targets, nine are real fighters... We are lucky to have them...They make the battle.

Ah, but the One, One of them is a Warrior... and He will bring the others back."

— Heraclitus, Greek philosopher

...........and after 2600 years that observation STILL holds true!

[spin]

159. When I was in basic training in the Air Force ...

we ran everywhere.

We only spent a couple of days on the range practicing with AR16s. We shot at man sized silhouette targets only 100 yards away. It was fun shooting the M16 on full auto, but the targets were placed much closer and they wanted us to fire 2 and 3 round bursts. (Which, of course, is the way you should do it.)

I developed the theory that the Air Force was training us to run when the shit hit the fan and let the real military do the fighting. The brass might have given us M16s to defend ourselves if it ever appeared we were about to get overrun like Custer's 7th Cavalry. That would have been only to cover their ass.

I served during the Vietnam era. I never made it to Vietnam but stayed stateside teaching electronics at Keesler AFB and working on a classified program testing improvements to reconnaissance aircraft used in the war.

The war stories I tell my grandsons only involve drinking and bars, fishing, and laying on the beach in Mississippi and Cape Cod.

I still remember those years fondly and I realize how lucky I was.

[SteveM]

152. Beware of Labradors wagging tails as they make funny outboard motor sounds.