Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Man guilty in slaying of neighbor over puppy urinating on lawn

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 06:01 PM
Original message
Man guilty in slaying of neighbor over puppy urinating on lawn
Edited on Fri Oct-15-10 06:01 PM by RamboLiberal
A Will county jury deliberated for about four hours today before finding Charles J. Clements guilty of second-degree murder in the slaying of a neighbor whose puppy urinated on the man's manicured front lawn in University Park, said his attorney and family members of the deceased Joshua Funches.

Clements, 69, who is scheduled to be sentenced Dec. 21, was allowed to remain free on bond.

"Obviously the family was very disappointed," said Clements' attorney Daniel Collins.

Second-degree murder is punishable by anything from probation to 15 years in prison, Collins said, and he will argue that his client's complete lack of a criminal history and otherwise exemplary life make him a candidate for probation.

-----

But Collins argued that his client feared for his life when Funches punched him in the mouth after Clements tried to explain the neighborhood's rules.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/10/jury-out-in-shooting-of-man-over-puppy-on-lawn.html

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Heat of the moment, and handguns
A lovely combination.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. It is called stupidity and irrationality
and if you put such afflicted humans together with knives, guns or cars the outcome is always the same. People get hurt or killed. It has everything to do with the people and nothing to do with the inanimate objects.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Nonsense.
The danger associated with handguns is on an entirely different plane. Why doesn't the NRA crowd choose to defend themselves with knives or cars, if they're so effective?

Never got a good answer to that one. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
howaboutme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Recklessnss is about irrationality and it will never change
I put the blame on foolish people not inanimate objects. When an idiot drives or drinks recklessly and kills people I don't blame the car. A reckless fool will always be a fool and that fact can't be separated from reality. I've had access to firearms for my entire life including mil service as sharp shooter and have never had a desire to use them for other than what they were intended. I used to hunt years ago but killing no longer appeals to me. But I do feel a certain sense of comfort knowing how to handle and use firearms from a M1911 45ACP to M16 on full auto and use them well if an occasion ever occurs where they are needed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. War to the knife
Knife to the hilt .

I am totally with you on the car thing too .
http://www.thenewsherald.com/articles/2010/10/15/news/doc4cb8ac5a364c0858439898.txt


Please to continue ..!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Because those make much better offensive than defensive weapons. (n/t)
Edited on Fri Oct-15-10 08:10 PM by benEzra
A knife is a weapon best employed by stealth or ambush, and obviously it's pretty damn hard to wield a car effectively in your house...

But certainly, if you view guns as inferior defensive tools to knives and cars, feel free to keep knives in your home or sleep in your garage. Your home, your choice, after all...just like my home, my choice...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jazzhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. What on earth leads you to believe that you have

the slightest credibility on the subject of guns/violence when you continuously refuse to reveal why you misrepresented the conclusion of the 1986 Kellermann "study"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=334436#334468
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Because implements that can used to kill are not necessarily useful for self-defense
First, let me observe that I don't recall you ever posing that particular question, so it's very likely that the reason you didn't get a good answer to the question was because not enough people read it, not--as you disingenuously imply--that there is no good answer. Of course, it is also quite likely that, even when provided with a good answer, "gun-aversive dyslexia" (which seems to strike quite a few people on this board) prevented you from comprehending it.

Of course, you might be unable to comprehend the difference between murder and self-defense, which would explain why the trope of "a gun has only one purpose" appeals to you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jazzhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. On the subject of gun aversive dyslexia.........
Edited on Sat Oct-16-10 06:15 PM by jazzhound
...........if I'm not mistaken, Don Kates coined the apt phrase. Here's what he says on the subject from his treatise "Epidemic of Violence or Pandemic of Propaganda":

IV. Fear and Loathing as Social Science

In stark contrast to this nuanced, sophisticated assessment, the spirit animating the health advocacy literature on firearms is illuminated by the frank admission of one outspoken advocate of its political agenda, Dean Deborah Prothrow-Stith of the Harvard School of Public Health: "My own view on gun control is simple. I hate guns and I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own one. If I had my way, guns for sport would be registered and all other guns would be banned."<48> A review of the anti-gun health advocacy literature suggests that such unconstrained, unabashed emotive bias helps account for many of its anomalies and for the remarkable difference in tone and conclusion from the criminological scholarship on firearms issues.

Anti-gun health advocates seem blind or unconcerned about the danger that their emotions may preclude rational evaluation of gun ownership. Psychiatrist Emmanuel Tanay, who admits that he loathes guns to the point of being unable to look upon or touch them with equanimity, asserts that gun ownership betokens sexual immaturity or neuroticism.<49> As evidence of this, Dr. Tanay asserts that (p.529)gun owners actually "handle ... with obvious pleasure" these horrid objects which so repulse him, that collectors "look after" their collections, and that owners "clean, polish and pamper" their guns.<50> "The owner's overvaluation of his gun's worth is an indication of its libidinal value to him."<51>

Further, Dr. Tanay invokes Freud's purported view of the sexual significance of firearms in the interpretation of dreams.<52> Invoking Freud is particularly ironic because Freud's comments were not directed at gun ownership. Insofar as Freud addressed the matter at all, he seems to have equated fear and loathing of guns with sexual immaturity and neuroticism.<53> We are emphatically not endorsing Freud's view as either applicable to Dr. Tanay or explanatory of his views. Our concern is with the effect fear and loathing of guns has on the intellect, not on the libido. The effect on Dr. Tanay is that he cannot recognize how gun collectors' tastes might differ from his own or how they might comprehend passages from Freud; in fact, he is unable to read them without imposing a meaning almost opposite of what they actually say.

Dr. Tanay is by no means the only anti-gun health advocate to exhibit such an emotion-based reading disability (or "gun-aversive dyslexia" as we shall hereinafter call it). Dr. Arthur L. Kellermann, one of the most prolific and influential health advocate sages, cites as supporting his view "that limiting access to firearms could prevent many suicides" an article expressly concluding the opposite.<54> An article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) alleges: "Research examining the effectiveness of gun control in specific locales suggests that it can reduce violence." However, the authors cite articles whose only relevance is in support of the opposite conclusion.<55> Another JAMA (p.530)article attributes increased homicide to increased cocaine use and gun availability among New York City minority teenagers.<56> The article cites actual evidence to show increased cocaine use, but its citations, supposedly showing increased firearms availability, indicate the reverse.<57>

We do not suggest that these gun-aversive dyslexic errors have any great importance in and of themselves. Their importance lies in what they, and innumerable other errors we document, collectively say about the effect of having advocacy deemed (even hailed as) a norm, while scholarship receives only lip service. Error becomes endemic when the corrective effects of dissent and criticism are excluded. Lest our comments seem strident and extreme, recall that this is peer-reviewed literature. Each of the articles cited in the preceding paragraph were peer-reviewed, as were almost all of the other articles we cite. How did errors of easily establisbable fact--that a source is cited for something opposite to what it says--slip past reviewers? The short answer is that intellectual sloppiness prevails when political motivations reign and sagecraft displaces scholarship.

Worse yet, peer review, and the general process of criticism, actually exacerbates error in the atmosphere of intellectual lockstep which prevails among health advocates. For instance, it was not enough for the JAMA reviewer of Dean Prothrow-Stith's book that it unreservedly avowed her hatred for guns.<58> He reproached not her emotionalism, which he fervently endorses, but rather the lack of more space devoted to teaching health advocates how to mobilize support for laws to rid our society of these evil objects.<59> An atmosphere in which criticism in general, and peer review in particular, comes from only one perspective not only allows error, but promotes it.

Recall how the CDC's principal researchers on firearms and violence characterized firearms as having "a central role in interpersonal violence."<60> This exemplifies the tendency of grossly inaccurate hyperbole slipping through any kind of editorial review process so long as it supports health advocacy's anti-gun bias. It could rightly have been said that guns are used in 60-65% of the approximately 23,000 murders committed annually.<61> But, though murder is the (p.531)gravest form of "interpersonal violence," numerically it is only a small part of that category and guns are used in less than 13% of the 6.7 million rapes, robberies, and assaults.<62> Locutional sloppiness and hyperbole reign in health advocacy literature, where advocacy has displaced scholarship and the only allowable peer review or criticism is that which arraigns authors for underemphasizing the baleful effect guns have on society.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rrneck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
25. Because
those against whom they might seek to defend themselves usually enjoy a significant physical and possibly numerical advantage; otherwise known as a disparity of force.

Do you have a solution to equalize that disparity of force not involving a firearm?

That's a question I've asked many times and for which I have gotten exactly one answer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
33. Because firearms are the most effective tools of self defense.
Your "argument" is a straw man. We don't say "knives et cetera are JUST as effective." We say "if you ban guns, people will still hurt each other, because there are still effective means left to harm others."

See the nuance?

You failed to address the argument the other side is making. Rather, you mis-characterized it and attacked that. Thus: straw man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. Didn't help that the deceased didn't keep his hands to himself
Letting your dog urinate and, apparently, defecate on other people's property and the public sidewalk and then, when some senior citizen tries to remonstrate with you, punching him in the face is pretty fucking antisocial in my book. I'm not saying that justifies the use of lethal force on the deceased, but it sure as hell forms a mitigating circumstance; an aggressive 23 year-old versus a 69 year-old forms, or at least comes very close to forming, a "disparity of force" (i.e. the aggressor could conceivably inflict permanent injury or death on the victim even without a weapon).

I have to say, when people use a line like "in the heat of the moment," they generally don't mean--or at least, don't want others to think they mean--"in response to a physical assault." Interesting insight into gun control advocate rhetoric there; must remember that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Looks like chicagos new strict gun laws already failing as expected
Gangs and criminals were shooting all day long when Chicago was a "No gun zone"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xmit Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Looks like a man was assaulted and defended himself. NM
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. *facepalm*
Edited on Fri Oct-15-10 07:04 PM by TheCowsCameHome
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Absolutely. All assaults should be answered with hot lead. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Totally depends on the situation ...
and you know it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-15-10 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. How much do you pay in overtime....
at that strawman factory of yours?

I can't beleive you make a profit...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Katya Mullethov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
23. Zay pretend to pay

Vee pretend to vork
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Classic Soviet humor
Though not quite as good as the one about the guy who gets permission to buy a Lada.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. A barehanded punch does not rise to the level of lethal self-defense.
One has to be in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm before potentially lethal retaliation is lawful. A gun, a knife, a baseball bat, a metal pipe... those are potentially lethal weapons. Bare hands CAN be lethal, but a single punch isn't.

Enjoy your stay.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. I beg to differ. A punch thrown by a 23 year old and visited upon a 69 year old can be quite lethal
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
34. Bullshit.
Enjoy your fantasy about the danger of blunt force trauma.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Glassunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
38. I'm afraid you are mistaken. People die from single punches quite frequently.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. It wasn't Chicago, or indeed Clark County
University Park is in Will County, south of Chicago. It's the greater Chicago area, but Chicago/Clark Co. rules don't apply. Of course, it's still Illinois...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
15. Wow, that is one misleading headline
No slam on you, RamboLiberal, I know you're just reporting it. But to suggest that the defendant shot the deceased "over puppy on lawn" when in fact that shooting occurred after the deceased physically assaulted the defendant borders on being outright mendacious.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
19. Good verdict
Don't expect to get away with shooting someone with whom you picked a fight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Asking someone to not let their dog poop on your lawn isn't picking a fight
Getting popped in the head by the dog owner is. IMO, this should have been self-defense, UNLESS there is more to the story than is currently available through news accounts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. The defendant didn't pick a fight, at least, not a physical one
I'd recommend reading an earlier article http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/10/man-tells-why-he-shot-neighbor-after-dog-urinated-on-his-lawn.html for some background.

The defendant, Mr. Clements, verbally confronted the deceased, Mr. Funches, over the fact that Funches' dog (a fox terrier puppy) peed on Clements' lawn, and Clements suspected that dog shit he had found earlier on his lawn and the sidewalk had also been left by Funches' dog.

From the above link:
Neighbor Wesley Haslett testified he heard Funches yell at Clements and threaten to beat him.


It looks very much like the late Mr. Funches was a bully. I don't like bullies. I have a very hard time suppressing the feeling that Funches got what was coming to him, or would have come to him sooner or later, and I don't give a fuck how much his mother protests that he was a good boy.

And to be perfectly honest, had I been on that jury, I don't think I'd have voted to convict on a murder charge. Manslaughter, yes, but murder, even second-degree, no.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Thanks for the link to the background.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
35. Not sure I agree with this.
Beginning a verbal fight isn't the same as starting a physical fight.

One of the great things about being human is that we get words capable of expressing unfathomable amounts of concepts. Many of those concepts fall squarely into "I'm pissed off, and here is why." This is what we WANT people to do. We (well, at least I) want people to deal with their problems with each other verbally. Fight it out on the field of ideas.

When the other party goes beyond that and makes things physical, it is that party that needs to be prepared to accept the consequences of their actions.

I don't know what happened in this particular situation, but as a basic principle, I think the above works.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-16-10 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
28. I just hope the puppy is ok.
Clements overreacted. He followed the obnoxious dog owner down the street, illegally carrying a gun off his property. That was the first threat. If he was that upset about the puppy pee, he should have called the police or animal control and had them explain the "neighborhood rules" to Funch.

Funches should have apologized for his puppy, shouldn't have been obnoxious and shouldn't have punched him. But maybe he felt threatened being followed by somebody carrying a gun?

Some people are just assholes who think there's a different set of rules for them.

CThe puppy owner didn't deserve to die, but he did ask for trouble. When you have a dog you have to keep a low profile. Clean up after them. Apologize if they bother someone. And keep them out of trouble...and out of harms way.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I agree with most of what you say, but...
He followed the obnoxious dog owner down the street, illegally carrying a gun off his property. That was the first threat.

Clements testified in court (see earlier article http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/10/man-tells-why-he-shot-neighbor-after-dog-urinated-on-his-lawn.html) that he had his 1911 in the pocket of his overalls because he had escorted his wife to their car, and was waiting for her to return from the post office; his wife was apparently scared of the violent crime in the neighborhood. He didn't have the gun on him for the purpose of intimidating Funches.

If he was that upset about the puppy pee, he should have called the police or animal control and had them explain the "neighborhood rules" to Funch.

I think you should be able to ask someone to not let his dog excrete on your lawn (Clements said he'd found dog shit on his lawn before) without resorting to calling the police or animal control right off the bat. Besides, when you don't know who the person is or where they live, what are they supposed to do?

But maybe he felt threatened being followed by somebody carrying a gun?

By all accounts, Funches was already verbally abusive, and threatened to beat Clements, before he became aware of the fact Clements had a firearm. If all that is in fact true, the evidence is pretty strong that Funches was, indeed, an asshole and asking for trouble. That doesn't justify lethal force, but it is a mitigating circumstance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. your last point is my first point
"By all accounts, Funches was already verbally abusive, and threatened to beat Clements, before he became aware of the fact Clements had a firearm. If all that is in fact true, the evidence is pretty strong that Funches was, indeed, an asshole and asking for trouble. That doesn't justify lethal force, but it is a mitigating circumstance."

From what I read, the guy was being verbally abusive right from the get-go. All the more reason not to follow him down the street and try to have a conversation with him.

Yes, you should be able to ask someone to not let your dog pee in your yard. But having the right to do something...and it being the right (or smart) thing to do in a particular circumstance are not the same thing.

From the moment the guy starts being an asshole, the right (read: smart) thing to do is retreat to your home...and call the police. It simply is not smart to get into a confrontation with an asshole asking for trouble.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Good points
However, we weren't there and have no idea how this incident took place. Did the dog owner get verbally abusive AND physically threatening from the get go? If so, maybe the homeowner COULDN'T just turn and walk away and felt he had no other choice but to defend himself, with a weapon, from someone younger and stronger. If not, then he SHOULD have turned and walked away, but:

Keep in mind, this incident took place in an acknowledged high crime area where weakness is exploited. Had the homeowner turned and walked away, would his action been interpreted as such leaving himself open to further, escalating, incidents? We'll never know.

Unless there is more to the story that hasn't made the news (and admittedly, many news outlets are basically anti-gun and "miss" facts which MAY paint the incident in a different light), I still say it was a case of self-defense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. good points, too
We don't live in the neighborhood...we only can view and speak from our own perspective.

Personally, my perspective is as a dog owner who's dog-owning neighbor went ballistic the first time my dogs explored the moose trail between our properties and visited her yard. She stormed up to my door, yelling at me. I apologized nicely.

When they repeated a couple weeks later, she tried to run them down with her car...in my driveway right in front of me.

This time, I left her a polite, but pointed message on her phone, reminding her that I had NOT made a big deal when her 2 cows and bull went through her fence and visited my pasture a few years back, terrorizing my horse (and me) and disrupting my life. I also had NOT made a big deal the prior fall when her dog first explored the moose trail, came into my pasture...and attacked me. That my dogs, who in 5 1/2 years had never visited her property, likely were following her dog home.

I also made it clear, though not in so many words, that if any of her animals visited my property again, she wouldn't see them again. Secretly, I hope the bull returns. This time, instead of alerting the neighbor, I WILL call animal control and then I'll bring out the barbie.

Not that this has any relevence, but the sight of that nutcase driving into my driveway, stopping at the end, waiting until my dogs went in front of her car and then trying to mow them down...still burns my butt. I have this recurring need to get it off my chest every time anything reminds me of it. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. People get wierd about their animals some times.
We have a dog who is a little....odd. She is a German Shepherd Dog that had the misfortune of being beaten by my drunken step-father when she was a puppy. (Interestingly, him beating the dog was more of an incentive for my mother to GTFO than him beating her....) She now has this complex where she is the most submissive, loyal, loving, sweet, affectionate dog in the world...so long as you are my mom or me. She is okay if we take her some where like the vet, and neither of us are around; but around the property she is extremely protective. She hasn't bitten anybody, because we take a lot of precautions with her, but we don't like to take the chance and inform all new neighbors (thankfully infrequent, rural area) of her nature and the precautions we take.

Anyway. One guy moves in with a dog he apparently can't manage to keep in his own yard. One day I hear Ivy (the GSD) flipping out in the yard (she is boundary trained, and tied when outside) and there is this dog basically taunting her, though in a playful way. I chase the dog off, and go to tell the neighbor that we have a dog that will not leave the property, is restrained, but I can't stop her from biting your dog if he comes on our property. Guy grunts at me, looks at me like I am some kind of nutcase and basically bothering him over nothing and gives a hostile non-responses to my informing him that I am just trying to keep his dog from getting hurt, as Ivy is a lot bigger and probably meaner than his dog...

You just can't get through to some people, and I would bet he is also the one that would make a huge deal if his dog was harmed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Callisto32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-17-10 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
36. That prosecutor looks to be out of line.
He wasn't trying to convict Clements, he was trying to paint gun owners as something they, as a group, are not. It's pure prejudice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC