TN GOP Candidate Haslam - Abolish Handgun Carry Permit

[AC_Mem]

So, in the state where we have the #1 most dangerous city (Memphis), the GOP candidate for governor would abolish the handgun carry permit. Why don't we just go back to having good old fashioned shoot-outs?

I'm horrified.

/snip

Haslam says he would sign bill to allow the carrying of guns without a permit if lawmakers pass it
By Richard Locker
Memphis Commercial Appeal

NASHVILLE — Republican gubernatorial candidate Bill Haslam told a Nashville meeting of the Tennessee Firearms Association that if lawmakers abolished the handgun-carry permit system and allowed people to go armed without permits, he would sign it into law.

The TFA's executive director, Nashville lawyer John Harris, confirmed Tuesday night that an audio clip of Haslam's exchange with TFA members on the issue at a forum Monday night was accurate and that his organization will likely push for repealing the carry-permit soon.

/snip

Read more: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/oct/19/haslam-says-he-would-sign-bill-allow-carrying-guns/

Peace, Love, and Handgun Permits
Annette

[shadowrider]

1. RKBA upheld. What's the problem?

:shrug:

[one-eyed fat man]

2. There is a certain elegance in dueling.

There are a couple of things to recommend it as means of solving interperonal disputes.

With a formal challenge to a duel, some folks might reconsider or apologize.

With a duel, when it's over you are either eminently pleased with the result or not in a position to bitch.

Of course, both these attributes were well-known early in the 19th century as lawyers discovered they could be career legislators. Coincidentally, they passed laws against formal duels.

Now instead of dueling, you sue. Both parties pay their lawyers until they run out of money. Nothing is resolved, both parties are broke, but the lawyers are happy and laughing all the way to the bank.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. Although repulsed by the idea of duels, I LOL'ed...nt

[slackmaster]

3. Lawful concealed carry has nothing to do with crime rates

People who commit crimes with guns are almost always carrying their guns illegally.

[PavePusher]

4. Can you prove...

that lawful carry without permits has been a problem where it is the practice? (Here in the U.S., of course.) Vermont seems to be fine. No issues in Alaska or Arizona. Permit-less open carry in many states is not a crime-raiser.

Your manufactured hysteria about the unfettered exercise of a Civil Right is pretty disturbing.

The sky, it does not fall.

[SteveM]

5. You should see the data on who commits murders...

Some 80+% are repeat felons who never have and never will have a problem obtaining guns, permit or no.

Do you wish to have the data provided, or can you find it yourself?

BTW, there are three states which requires no concealed-carry permit. Not just immigrant-paranoid Arizona; not only pop-up morals Palin-Alaska. It's good ol' rather liberal you-know-Bernie Sanders-Vermont.

Huge crime rate in Vermont.

[russ1943]

11. I'd like to see reputable sourced data that says 80+% are repeat felons.

Refer to “Felony Defendants in Large Urban Counties”, 2006 May 2010, NCJ 228944 U.S. Department of Justice Office of Justice Programs Bureau of Justice Statistics. Table 4 on page 5 states 42% of felony murder defendants at time of their arrest had any (at least one) prior felony convictions. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fdluc06.pdf

US Dept of Justice states 42% of murderers have had a prior felony conviction.





56% had any prior conviction.
81% had a prior arrest.

[X_Digger]

12. Perhaps a bit hyperbolic..

http://www.cardozolawreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=138:kates201086&catid=20:firearmsinc&Itemid=24

MASSACHUSETTS: “Some 95% of homicide offenders . . . {in a Kennedy School study had been} arraigned at least once in {Page91} Massachusetts courts before they {murdered}. . . . On average . . . homicide offenders had been arraigned for 9 prior offenses.22

ATLANTA: Eighty percent of 1997 Atlanta murder arrestees had previously been arrested at least once for a drug offense; and 70% had three or more prior drug arrests—in addition to all their arrests for other crimes.23

DELAWARE: Reporting on shootings, including many in which victims had only been wounded rather than killed, 80% of shooters had arrest records going all the way back to their juvenile years; 57% had been charged at least twice with drug offenses.24

NEW YORK CITY: A New York Times study of the 1,662 murders in that city over the years 2003-2005 found “{m}ore than 90 percent of the killers had criminal records . . . .”25

ILLINOIS: Over the years 1991-2000, the great majority of murderers had prior felony records.26

.....

22. Anthony A. Braga et al., Understanding and Preventing Gang Violence: Problem Analysis and Response Development in Lowell, MA., 9 POLICE Q. 20, 29–31 (2006).”
23. Dean G. Rojek, The Homicide and Drug Connection, in THE VARIETIES OF HOMICIDE AND ITS RESEARCH 124, 128 (Paul H. Blackman et al. eds., 2000).
24. Adam Taylor & Ira Porter, Growing Audacity Among City Gunmen, NEWS J., Sept. 20, 2009, http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090920/NEWS01/909200364/Growing-audacity-among-city-gunmen.
25. Jo Craven McGinty, New York Killers, and Those Killed, by Numbers, N.Y. TIMES, Apr. 28, 2006, at A1.
26. Philip J. Cook et al., Criminal Records of Homicide Offenders, 294 JAMA 598 (2005).

[russ1943]

14. Not exactly.

Digger, thank you for the response. Only the Illinois statement even mentions Felony, stating “the great majority” had prior felony records.

First the scope, by state, is seriously limited. There are arrests and arraignments and criminal records, none of which is necessarily a conviction of any kind, much less a FELONY conviction. I commented on and questioned a grandiose statement that stated as fact that ;

“Some 80+% of murderers are repeat felons…” Do you wish to have the data provided, or can you find it yourself?”

Your considerably less than hyperbolic response repeatedly mentions a variety of states whose homicide offenders had criminal records, been arrested or arraigned 95%, 80%, 80% 90+% of the time. Only the Illinois remark references the word FELONY (not conviction), stating “the great majority of murderers had prior felony records”.

Checking the JAMA abstract at http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/294/5/598 it shows that the article referenced states "For 1990-2000, 42.6% of 884 cases had at least 1 felony conviction". That's 42.6% had a felony conviction, not exactly the same as "“the great majority” had prior felony records.

[shadowrider]

13. Reputable source = One that agrees with your position, all others are "flawed"

Am I correct?

[TheWraith]

6. You need to rework your preconceived notions.

Several other states in the US, most notably Vermont, have unrestricted handgun carry laws, and they don't have a problem with it. Moreover, criminals aren't going to apply for a permit before they carry a handgun--witness one of the other most violent cities, Chicago, where handguns were until very recently banned.

[benEzra]

7. There's a reason this type of proposal is often called "Vermont style" carry...

and Vermont is hardly characterized by Wild West shootouts.

I certainly don't see repealing licensure requirements as any sort of legislative priority whatsoever, but Vermont-style CCW laws won't cause the sky to fall, either.

[lawodevolution]

8. They cried wolf or rather

Blood in the streets too often. No one believes them now.

[kwikrnu]

9. That was me...

I made the audio and a few other Second Amendment supporters joined and Mr. Haslam committed to signing legislation. 29 States allow for some type of unlicensed carry of handguns. You don't hear about blood in the streets because law abiding citizens don't kill people with guns. The permit system is an infringement which is unconstitutional.

[VermeerLives]

19. Well said!

In VA we don't need a permit to carry, either, just a permit to carry a concealed gun. Just got mine; only took about 3 days, which surprised me.

[lawodevolution]

10. Checkout some of the comments on that link in the OP

It's full of comments that would be approved by the Brady campaign including the "there will be shoot outs" and it'll be like the wild west comments

[Callisto32]

15. Got anything other than horror?

Didn't think so.

[lawodevolution]

16. Haslam won

So it seems his views on guns are more online with the people of this country than the views of the OP

[AtheistCrusader]

17. BLOOD IN THE STREETS OK CORRAL etc.

This is getting old, man. Very old and tired.