Got a Gender Gap Problem? Push for Gun Restrictions ...

[spin]

Got a Gender Gap Problem? Push for Gun Restrictions

Paul Helmke

President, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

Posted: October 24, 2010 02:05 PM

If Democrats want to know what women want this election season, I encourage their campaign gurus to start talking about an issue that has strong consistent support from women of all ages, races, and locations: gun control.


***snip***

When the Brady Campaign had Lake Research Partners do a national poll in late April about people carrying loaded guns in public, they found that 76 percent of women of color, 68 percent of urban women and also older women, 59 percent of suburban women, 55 percent of younger women, and a majority of rural women opposed the open carrying in public of guns.

The same poll found that 63 percent of women said they were less likely to vote for a candidate for elected office who wanted to make it easier for people to carry loaded guns openly in public (with only 18 percent saying it would make them more likely to vote for such a candidate).

According to Lake Research Partners, the gender gap on whether allowing guns to be openly carried in public makes people feel more or less safe "is one of the largest divides seen on current issues."

Women voters' desires for tighter restrictions don't stop there. Seventy three percent of women (and 63 percent of men) supported registration and licensing of gun owners. Seventy percent of women (60 percent of men) supported restrictions on military-style assault weapons). Sixty seven percent of women (63 percent of men) supported a waiting period of five days for handgun sales. And, 60 percent of women (46 percent of men) supported limiting the number of guns that can be bought at one time.

With more than 100,000 getting shot or killed by guns each year in this country, voters -- particularly women voters -- are looking for candidates who will work to reduce gun violence. Since the U.S. Supreme Court has made it clear that near-total gun bans are off the table, now is the time for candidates to propose and support common sense restrictions that make it harder for dangerous people to guns. This would be good policy -- and good politics -- particularly for those seeking to widen the "gender gap."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/got-a-gender-gap-problem_b_773010.html

picture source: Centennial Defense Academy http://www.guntraining.biz/Training101/CoursesforWomenOnly/tabid/640/Default.aspx

Packing heat: More women training to carry guns
April 29,2010

EFFINGHAM - The National Rifle Association reports there are more than 250 million privately-owned firearms in the United States. The NRA also reports the number of guns typically rises by about 4.5 million every year.

According to a number of different studies, it is estimated that there are at least 15 million female gun owners in the U.S. Recent research also shows more and more of those gun owners are women which includes South Carolina. In South Carolina, the growth rate of gun ownership among women gets higher every year as does the number of women getting a Concealed Weapons Permit.

Many local law enforcement agencies sponsor gun safety training courses specifically geared toward women. That includes the Florence County Sheriff's Office. Lt. Jeff Johnson heads up the firearms training for Florence County. He says the desire for women to protect themselves is prompting more women to arm themselves. "You need to know the basic principles of the weapon, how it works, how the safety operates on it, how to load it, unload it. A little bit of cleaning in reference to the maintenance of the weapon."

***snip***

As for Mrs. Johnson, if a crisis situation occurs again she says she's ready. "I don't think guns in the answer to everything, but I think it it's a life-death situation, you've took the class and you've got the knowledge to use it and I think you'd have a better chance of protecting yourself and men are a lot stronger than women and I think advantage wise that's the only advantage a woman has."
http://www2.scnow.com/news/2010/apr/29/packing_heat_women_and_guns-ar-364603/

More Women Carrying Guns
August 24, 2009

NEW ORLEANS —
Virginia Briand is a grandmother of six, a gourmet cook and an avid gardener. She's also pretty good at target practice.

Virginia is among a growing number of women, women over age 50, who are taking their safety seriously. "The bad guys don't just hang out in bad areas. They're coming to your neighborhood so people are starting to accept a lot of personal responsibility." Fire Arms Instructor Michael Jurina Is teaching this concealed carry class at the Shooter's Club in Harahan. "We've gotten a lot older group of people who've become a little worrisome, especially after Katrina and other recent events around the country that have made people say, 'Yikes. I guess the police aren't always there,'" he says.

"I felt unsafe after the hurricanes and after the millennium," says Virginia. Now, she feels very comfortable handling a gun. "I think i can sense danger. I know my rights. I know the dangers of what I can and can't do and so now I know I can safely fire a gun."

And she recommends women of all ages think about becoming gun owners. "We have been sort of disallowed to have the ability to protect ourselves with firearms."
http://www.abc26.com/news/local/wgno-news-women-guns-story,0,7977364.story

[rfranklin]

1. The problem during Katrina was the police with guns....

What's the solution, shootouts with the cops?

[spin]

3. Police were not the only problem ...

but they sure contributed to the problems. Especially when they started confiscating firearms from honest people.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Superintendent P. Eddie Compass unleashed a wave of confiscations with these chilling words:

"No one will be able to be armed. We will take all weapons. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns."

Thousands of firearms were then confiscated from law-abiding gun owners. The police gave no paperwork or receipts for those guns. They just stormed in and seized them.
http://www.infowars.com/nra-the-untold-story-of-gun-confiscation-after-katrina/

Confiscation of firearms

Controversy arose over a September 8 city-wide order by New Orleans Police Superintendent Eddie Compass to local police, National Guard troops, and US Marshals to confiscate all civilian-held firearms. "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns." Seizures were carried out without warrant, and in some cases with excessive force; one instance captured on film involved 58 year old New Orleans resident Patricia Konie. Konie stayed behind, in her well provisioned home, and had an old revolver for protection. A group of police entered the house, and when she refused to surrender her revolver, she was tackled and it was removed by force. Konie's shoulder was fractured, and she was taken into police custody for failing to surrender her firearm.<74><75> Even National Guard troops, armed with assault rifles, were used for house to house searches, seizing firearms and attempting to get those remaining in the city to leave.<76>

Angered citizens, backed by the National Rifle Association and other organizations, filed protests over the constitutionality of such an order and the difficulty in tracking seizures, as paperwork was rarely filed during the searches. Wayne LaPierre, CEO of the National Rifle Association, defended the right of affected citizens to retain firearms, saying that, "What we’ve seen in Louisiana - the breakdown of law and order in the aftermath of disaster - is exactly the kind of situation where the Second Amendment was intended to allow citizens to protect themselves." The searches received little news coverage, though reaction from groups such as the NRA, the Second Amendment Foundation, and Gun Owners of America was immediate and heated, and a lawsuit was filed September 22 by the NRA and SAF on behalf of two firearm owners whose firearms were seized. On September 23, the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana issued a restraining order to bar further firearms confiscations.<74>

After refusing to admit that it had any seized firearms, the city revealed in mid-March that it did have a cache of some 1000 firearms seized after the hurricane; this disclosure came after the NRA filed a motion in court to hold the city in contempt for failure to comply with the U.S. District Court's earlier order to return all seized firearms. On April 14, 2006, it was announced that the city will begin to return seized firearms, however as of early 2008, many firearms were still in police possession, and the matter was still in court.<74> The matter was finally settled in favor of the NRA in October 2008. Per the agreement, the city was required to relax the strict proof of ownership requirements previously used, and was to release firearms to their owners with an affidavit claiming ownership and a background check to verify that the owner is legally able to possess a firearm.<77>


Louisiana legislator Steve Scalise introduced Louisiana House Bill 760, which would prohibit confiscation of firearms in a state of emergency, unless the seizure is pursuant to the investigation of a crime, or if the seizure is necessary to prevent immediate harm to the officer or another individual. On June 8, 2006, HB 760 was signed into law.<78> 21 other states joined Louisiana in enacting similar laws. A federal law prohibiting seizure of lawfully held firearms during an emergency, the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006, passed in the House with a vote of 322 to 99, and in the Senate by 84-16. The bill was signed into law by President Bush on October 9, 2006.<79>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

And of course there were incidents like this:

Charges Filed in Katrina Inquiry
By CAMPBELL ROBERTSON
Published: February 24, 2010

NEW ORLEANS — On Sept. 4, 2005, with floodwaters of Hurricane Katrina still standing in much of the city, Lt. Michael J. Lohman of the New Orleans Police Department arrived at the Danziger Bridge in eastern New Orleans. A group of police officers had rushed there just ahead of him in response to a radio call for assistance.

At the bridge, Lieutenant Lohman found that six civilians had been shot by police officers, two fatally. None of them had weapons.

Almost immediately, federal authorities said Wednesday in a blistering series of accusations, he and the other officers began to plot a cover-up, planting a gun near the site to make the shootings appear justified.

That action led to Lieutenant Lohman’s appearance in a federal courtroom on Wednesday afternoon, where he pleaded guilty to one count of conspiring to obstruct justice. It is the first charge in a wide-ranging inquiry into police misconduct that led to civilian deaths in the chaotic days after Hurricane Katrina, and it is unlikely to be the last.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/us/25orleans.html

Bad enough to have to survive the looters after a hurricane without having to worry about the honesty of the police.

[PavePusher]

4. If neccesary, yes.

Or does one merely stand there until the bullet comes?

[SteveM]

7. Many of whom were forcibly confiscating citizens' firearms...

in support of illegal orders by New Orleans officials.

[safeinOhio]

2. NRA vs Brady Campaign

Both are crazy zealots that the majority disregards.

[spin]

10. Looking at how "shall issue" concealed carry ...

castle doctrine, "stand your ground" and "take your gun to work" laws have spread across our country I would say that the NRA has not been ignored or disregarded by the majority.

When you look at the success rate for draconian gun laws supported by the Brady Campaign, I agree they are largely ignored.

[jazzhound]

45. What spin said, and............

...........you've drawn one huge false equivalency, given that the NRA is rolling in cash and the Brady Bunch is impoverished.

[Pullo]

61. Over 4 million dues-paying members for the NRA as well .......

The Brady Camp? I doubt their spam email lists are more than a fraction of that.


The NRA certainly does not get disregarded. Does Obama sign a law legalizing concealed carry in many national Parks w/o the pressure put on by the NBA? No.
Do the 65 House Dems write a letter to Holder and tell him to put a cork in it when the AJ started floating the idea of a new AWB if they weren't concerned with the likely reaction of the NRA, should such a measure be advanced? No. What about DC voting rights? Does the fact that many congressmen refuse to vote for that legislation w/o a non-germane amendment stripping the District of the ability to regulate firearms, unless they weren't worried about their 'grading' from the NRA? Absolutely not.

I could go on and on. I'm not a huge fan the NRA, but no question they are one of the most powerful lobbies in the nation, if not THE most powerful lobby in the USA.



The Brady Campaign on the other hand, is so lame they can't even get Starbucks to not allow firearms in their stores, despite pathetic attempts.

[spin]

63. The Brady Campaign was powerful at one time but ...

If all you have is a campaign based on lies to create fear, you may prosper in the short run but once people see through your lies you will find the going very difficult.

The Brady Campaign known at the time as Handgun Control Inc. pushed to ban the Glock pistol as they said it was a "plastic gun" designed as a weapon that could be sneaked through airport scanners. Today it is the most popular police handgun by in the nation.

The Brady Campaign fought against "shall issue" concealed carry in state after state crying that the if the state approved of the law, it would immediately tun into the "Wild West" with shootouts on every street corner. You would have thought that they would have realized that their argument held no water after the first ten states approved "shall issue" but instead they chose to continue an obviously foolish argument.

The Brady Campaign states that assault weapons have no sporting or civilian use, lying bout the fact that these rifles are often used in competition and even for hunting.

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that people wise up eventually when you consistently lie to them.

This lesson should also be observed by the NRA-ILA and they should be cautious not to exaggerate the threat that Obama and the Democrats present to RKBA in order to get donations.

[lawodevolution]

65. while the Brady campaign spreads pure lies

The Democrat party has gun control as part of their agenda still on websites, so until that is removed the NRA is telling the truth.

I didn't know the Brady campaign tried to ban Glocks, now I'll have to get one.

[jazzhound]

66. My humble suggestion:

I didn't know the Brady campaign tried to ban Glocks, now I'll have to get one.

Look into the Springfield XDM. :thumbsup:

[jazzhound]

64. Here's another liberal take on the "disregarded" NRA:

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/22333

As spin has pointed out, you are correct in asserting that the Brady Bunch are disregarded ---- largely because they've been caught lying and crying wolf so many times. They once slandered Students for Concealed Carry by claiming that the group was funded by the firearms industry. In response, SFCC offered up a public challenge to the Brady Bunch ----- we'll open up our books if you open up yours. To date, the BB has not responded to the challenge, nor have they apologized for slandering Students for Concealed Carry.

[lawodevolution]

5. The Brady campaigns garbage polls

And the garbage results.

[slackmaster]

6. Civil rights aren't based on popularity contests

Paul Helmke is a bullshit assclown.

[safeinOhio]

8. Along with NRA stooges like

Ted Nugent, child molester and draft dodger. Charlton Heston, racist, and Sarah Palin, batshit crazy.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RSillsbee]

11. Charlton Heston ( The same Charlton Heston that marched W/ King)

A racist? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og0QBldrKd4

Are you able to prove (or at least present evidence for) your position?

The more I read of your posts the more convinced I am that you are a closet anti who's claiming to be pro RKBA to get heard

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[safeinOhio]

13. His own words at a NRA speech

in a 1997 speech titled "Fighting the Culture War in America,"



"Mainstream America is counting on you to draw your sword and fight for them. These people have precious little time to and resources to battle misguided Cinderella attitudes, the fringe propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that it is a divine duty for woman to hate men, blacks who raise a militant fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other..."

[RSillsbee]

15. I don't see the racism

There are Black people in this country that do exactly that. It would be racist if he said all blacks do that.

SO, let's get back to the fact that you seem to come down firmly on the authoritarian side of every gun freedom issue presented in this forum , care to explain?

[safeinOhio]

18. there are people of every race that do that

to single out one race makes the statement racist.

You need to read all of my post. I have consistently come out for the rights of law abiding citizens to legally own and be licensed to carry as is legal in "shall issue" states.

You ignore the facts about my post and make misleading statements about me personally. Feel free to disagree, but try to leave the personal attacks out.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RSillsbee]

24. Personal attack

I stated an opinion and asked you to elucidate your position how is that a personal attack?

[safeinOhio]

26. Your statement that I

"seem to come down firmly on the authoritarian side of every gun freedom issue presented in this forum". Which is wrong.

[RSillsbee]

28. If you are offended by what I said

I apologize

[X_Digger]

14. Association Fallacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

[safeinOhio]

17. Perhaps,

at least as much as original post.

[X_Digger]

23. Where do you see association in the OP?

Spin presented four articles, the last two of which are the polar opposite of the first.

Who's using guilt by association in this thread, except yourself?

[safeinOhio]

25. Looks like you are using it

now.

[X_Digger]

36. Re-read the wiki on the fallacy. I don't think it means what you think it does.

Please, show me how I'm tarring an X with a Y's faults.

I'll wait.

[spin]

29. I try to present both sides of an issue in order to promote discussion.

I did find it interesting that Paul Helmke President of the Brady Campaign is saying,"I encourage their campaign gurus to start talking about an issue that has strong consistent support from women of all ages, races, and locations: gun control."

I have recently noticed that the idea of owning and even carrying a firearm is becoming quite popular among women. My daughter has influenced a number of her girl friends to consider getting a concealed weapons permit. Most of her friends already own firearms and carry them in their cars. Several of her friends are hunters and have interested my daughter in "shooting Bambi" this year.

[safeinOhio]

31. Good that you

try to present both sides.

However, I might point out to you that this statement about your daughter falls under the honor by association part of the Association fallacy that you posted.

;-)

[spin]

35. Actually, I would argue that the original Association fallacy ..

was in the article by Paul Helmke.

"If Democrats want to know what women want this election season, I encourage their campaign gurus to start talking about an issue that has strong consistent support from women of all ages, races, and locations: gun control."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x345466

[safeinOhio]

37. True , Paul Helmke has no credibility.

Then, Neither do some NRA spokespeople, like Nugent or Palin.

[spin]

39. I personally dislike the NRA-ILA as they constantly try to scare me ...

into donating money.

I support and belong the main NRA which is primarily devoted to the shooting sports.

The fund-raising that sustains NRA’s legislative activities is conducted by ILA. Federal and many state election laws dictate that funds used to assist candidates for office must be raised separately, and that is the task of NRA’s political action committee—the NRA Political Victory Fund (NRA-PVF). Neither NRA member dues nor contributions to ILA can be used directly for the election or defeat of candidates.

Because of these clearly defined parameters, and because only a small fraction of ILA’s operating budget comes from regular NRA membership dues, both ILA and NRA-PVF must continuously raise the funds needed to sustain NRA’s legislative and political activities. The resources expended in these arenas come from the generous contributions of NRA members—above and beyond their regular dues
http://www.nraila.org/About/PoliticalVictoryFund/

I understand your point and I'm not fond what I've seen of Ted Nugent (which is very little).

Sarah Palin I view as extremely dangerous. I don't think that she is extremely intelligent, but then neither was Ronald Regan or G. W. Bush. She has charisma and all the attacks and ridicule from the media have only made her more popular with her conservative base. If the economy is still in the dumpster in 2012, she might run against Obama and I don't discount the possibility that she might win.

I think that the economy will be well into a recovery by that time. Obama will overcome his first two years and easily win reelection.

But if Palin was elected, she would be the perfect sock puppet for the far right neo-conservatives to exploit.

[safeinOhio]

41. Is the American Rifle Man mag

pay for by your dues? Not only does the org try to influence politicians, but also members. The October and November 2008 issues were a disgrace. Sad to say I joined in 1972 and stopped in 1974. Not soon enough. I do research by reading their rags at the barber shop. Also, sad to say I knew Ted in the 80s. He seemed ok then, but went way off the deep end later.

[spin]

48. I found the November issue interesting ...

The article on the new S&W Bodyguards interested me, as well as the article on the Winchester Model 1894 and the Spanish Broomhandle article.

As I said I know very little about Ted Nugent. I did know that he is a singer, but I thought he was a country western star. Seems I was wrong even about that.

[jazzhound]

46. As you have no cred for dodging the question in post #36

[safeinOhio]

52. you have none as

your question falls under, Argument from fallacy: assumes that if an argument for some conclusion is fallacious, then the conclusion is false.

[jazzhound]

57. Reading comprehension fail. I asked no question.

Please, show me how I'm tarring an X with a Y's faults.

This is the question you have yet to answer.

[Pullo]

16. I'm curious, why do you regard Charton Heston as a racist?

I'm with you on Nugent being a draft dodger, and Palin being crazy, but please provide the sources of information that lead you to believe Charlton Heston was a racist.

Thanks

[safeinOhio]

19. see post #16

Yes he has supported the rights of minorities earlier in his life. However, in front of NRA groups in his later life, a different story.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lawodevolution]

22. The NRA supports the right of minorities to own firearms

[safeinOhio]

27. Ted Nugent is on the Board of Directors of the NRA

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2007/01/ted-nugents-racist-spectacle-texas-governors-inaugural-ball
Is Texas Governor Rick Perry crazy, or is he just a big fan of Cat Scratch Fever? The final act at Perry's inaugural ball in Austin Tuesday night featured redneck rocker Ted Nugent, who, according to the San Antonio Express News, "appeared onstage wearing a cut-off T-shirt emblazoned with a Confederate flag and shouting unflattering remarks about undocumented immigrants, including kicking them out of the country, according to people who were in attendance. Machine guns, including an AK-47, were his props."
The funny thing for those who know Nugent is that he was actually being pretty tame. Two years ago, when I saw him speak at a National Rifle Association conference in Houston, he had this to say:


Remember the Alamo! Shoot 'em! To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molestors dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun, and when they attack you, shoot 'em.

That one was widely reported. But the AP didn't relate several other Nugent gems from that day. Among them was something he said while recounting a USO tour of Iraq: "I was just hoping somebody would take me hostage," he said. "Just aim for the laundry." (Which was even more odd when you consider that Iraqis generally don't wear turbans). Much of this was said while Nugent was holding an assault rifle. He wound up the tirade by concluding that Democrats, guilty of tax-raising and gun muzzling, should be "eliminated."
There has been a lot of talk in Texas that Gov. Perry could be tapped to run for Vice President. Maybe McCain should just nominate Nugent instead. The bigot vote would be in the bag.

Ted Nugent, on the Board of Directors and spokesperson for the National Rifle Association.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. Moreover, the racist and classist history of gun cotrol is clear and continues to this day

[safeinOhio]

38. Sorry, that right wing bull has been debunked.

Here is a history of the "gun control racist" argument. Where it came from, by whom and why it is false.

p://www.opposingviews.com/i/debunking-the-gun-control-is-racist-smear

I'd look close at who is pushing that line.

[RSillsbee]

40. You appeal to one blog post

Written with a decidedly anti gun slant to prove that the concept of gun control being racist is some right wing construct ?

Read the Sullivan act then get back to us

[X_Digger]

42. Really? *snort*

Oh my god! It's full of straw men.

For starters, the “gun control is racist” argument, working from the McDonald decision, makes the assumption that there was no gun control before the Reconstruction period.

No, actually, it doesn't. That's an assumption of the author's own part, that is then torn down.

Nor does Thomas explain how a firearm would have preserved Cooper’s life in such a situation.

Thomas never claimed it would have.

As my boss, CSGV Executive Director Josh Horwitz..

Ahh, now that explains a lot. Someone let the intern loose.

As my boss, CSGV Executive Director Josh Horwitz, and Casey Anderson put it, according to gun rights activists, “the collapse of Reconstruction—and every tragic consequence that followed—could have been avoided if the newly freed slaves had had access to firearms.

No, nobody claimed that, certainly not the majority in McDonald. Straw man.

It also has no bearing on whether or not much of gun control's history is racist or not.

Are you sure you didn't write this? It sure sounds familiar.. Throw in a little association fallacy..

I can’t help but think of Lifetime National Rifle Association (NRA) Member Rand Paul...

Lather, rinse, repeat..

It is difficult to find any historians outside of Hill who view the Deacons or other armed groups as the engine behind the great achievements of the Civil Rights Movement.

More straw! This intern obviously never actually read Hill's book.

Even after his home was bombed in Montgomery, King told blacks: “Don’t get your weapons. He who lives by the sword will perish by the sword. Remember that is what God said. We are not advocating violence. We want to love our enemies. I want you to love our enemies. Be good to them. Love them and let them know you love them.”

And yet, this is the same man who said, "Finally, I contended that the debate over the question of self-defense was unnecessary since few people suggested that Negroes should not defend themselves as individuals when attacked. The question was not whether one should use his gun when his home was attacked, but whether it was tactically wise to use a gun while participating in an organized demonstration." Martin Luther King, Jr., Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? Chapter II, Black Power, Page 27, Harper & Row Publishers Inc., First Edition, 1967.

"As we have seen, the first public expression of disenchantment with nonviolence arose around the question of "self-defense." In a sense this is a false issue, for the right to defend one's home and one's person when attacked has been guaranteed through the ages by common law." Martin Luther King, Jr., Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community? Chapter II, Black Power, Page 55, Harper & Row Publishers Inc., First Edition, 1967.

MLK applied for (and was denied) a carry license.

[safeinOhio]

44. A few questions, still I think the premise holds water

If reconstruction blacks were to fire on and kill a few night raiders it would mean genocide for their family and community. Thousands of whites would storm and kill everyone.

Your examples are Argument from fallacy: assumes that if an argument for some conclusion is fallacious, then the conclusion is false.

among many others such as these
False dilemma
Appeal to lawFallacy of necessity
Homunculus fallacy
Negative proof fallacy
Package-deal fallacy
Affirming a disjunct:
Denying the antecedent
Proof by example:
Appeal to ridicule
Fallacy of many questions
Historian's fallacy

[X_Digger]

47. The intern's core principle is fallacy..

To demonstrate that gun laws weren't racist, s/he shows that african americans were discriminated against..

:crazy:

Then s/he stacks up piles of straw and proceeds to burn them.

There's no there there.

[friendly_iconoclast]

49. The intern also omitted Robert F. Williams, author of "Negroes With Guns"

...who was an NRA member, and whose gun club was chartered by the NRA.


And the Black Panthers, whose open carriage of loaded firearms resulted in the passage of the Mulford Act in California banning same,

signed into law by that well-known progressive Ronald Reagan.



So, somewhat along the lines of what I once told a rather outspoken gun control advocate here:

Our Buckeye friend hasn't proved us wrong, he's just found someone who agrees with him....

[safeinOhio]

51. as some here are fond of

right-wing spinners for their sources and opinions.

[Katya Mullethov]

59. You aint kiddin'

From the mouth of madness comes this one who calls himself " A lifelong Democrat " . And now , just another cog in the spin machine .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUP0j4LiuK4

The hook is at 3:59 .

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. Some are fond of using Republicans as sources. Such as the head of the Brady Campaign....

Republican Paul Helmke. Amazing the number of democrats who think Mr. Helmke and his org are just peachy.

I daresay those fans of Helmke and the BC are largely unfamiliar with the term cui bono....

[spin]

60. What started you on this Argument from fallacy kick? ...

The Homunculus fallacy is neat...



I personally believe that the article you posted above "Debunking the "Gun Control is Racist" Smear http://www.opposingviews.com/i/debunking-the-gun-control-is-racist-smear is an example of the psychologist's fallacy.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. I have...its the truth...your citation is an aberration at best

[safeinOhio]

53. your argument falls under

False dilemma (false dichotomy): where two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options, when in reality there are more.

[X_Digger]

55. I'm glad that you're actually taking the time to learn logical fallacies..

.. but you need to work on application.

If you'd said, for instance, "So then you're FOR criminals and the mentally unstable for getting guns." in response to "I think registration wouldn't do what you think it would." - that would be a false dilemma.

Saying that your intern's argument is bullshit is not a false dilemma.

[safeinOhio]

56. Looking at the least

there is a fallacy for every argument, depending on how close to the edge one wants to stand.

[X_Digger]

58. Making an argument without logical fallacies is hard, yes.

But the advantage is that they stand up to scrutiny.

If your path from Premise A to Premise B to Premise C to ... to Conclusion is rock solid, the only thing people can fling at it are insults and cracked teeth.

[lapsstir]

69. Actually, no

you are confusing the concept of a sound argument and a valid argument. If the logic is correct, iow the "path" is rock solid, that's a valid argument. Whether or not an argument is valid is tangential to whether or not it is sound. The only unassailable argument is an argument that is both sound (all the premises are in fact correct) AND valid (the path proceeds logically).

It is of course possible to have an unsound and/or invalid argument that still reaches the correct conclusion, btw.

[X_Digger]

70. I was simplifying :)

The poster I was responding to likes to throw out logical fallacies, and has only recently come to see the error of their ways. Now they're falsely identifying logical fallacies in others' arguments.

Baby steps ;)

[lapsstir]

68. Considering that many minorities and specifically blacks

are

1) FAR more likely to be a victim of violent and gun crime than whites
2) FAR more likely to live in jurisdictions where it is difficult or impossible to get a license to carry

and that
1) the history of gun control has roots in racism

fighting for gun rights is about as anti-racist as you can get.

[Katya Mullethov]

54. He noticed there are those use race as a bludgeon

And a means to divide people , and cause yet more hate and division , and that's racist .

[lapsstir]

67. Charlton Heston was not a racist

The very idea is absurd. It's hard to have much better anti-racist cred than Heston, a man who marched with King back in the day.

[spin]

30. Growth of new women hunters quickly rising ...

BY BETTY DIETZ (OUTDOORS WRITER [e-mail])
Published: August 8, 2010

HAMBURG - According to statistics compiled by several national organizations, including the National Shooting Sports Foundation, females continue to be the largest group showing an increase of hunting license sales.

Closer to home, information compiled by the Pennsylvania Game Commission through its computer-generated sale of hunting licenses show that women are Pennsylvania's fastest-growing group of hunters.

There are several theories for this, including more women becoming involved at the urging of their husbands. Another factor is young girls develop an interest in the outdoors by attending events such as youth field days and similar events held by conservation groups and sporting clubs.
http://republicanherald.com/growth-of-new-women-hunters-quickly-rising-1.922960 /div]

[safeinOhio]

32. This follows other trends in gender

choices. 50 years ago there were hardly any females in agriculture graduate programs. Now they are well over half.

[spin]

33. True. 50 years ago there were few female police officers...

they are common today.

[ileus]

43. My wife bought an AR this year

right out of the blue....I was out of cell range and her brother found a AR, she knew I had one on order and told him to pick it up for her that it would be her's....

I set it up with a nice scope and her and the kids love shooting it....