Never fired a weapon??? Don't worry, you can still carry a concealed weapon in 33 states!!!!!

[KansasVoter]

Want to PACK HEAT but do not want to go through the hassle of learning to fire a gun?

Want to carry that concealed Glock or .44 magnum, that you have never fired, in 33 states??? Of course you do!!!

But I am sure you are wondering "How can this be possible? How can I carry a concealed weapon when I have never even held a gun??? Isn't that dangerous?" Well of course it is dangerous.........but also EXCITING!!!

Well, let me introduce you to Utah's Non-residence Concealed Weapon Permit!!!

All you need to do is find an instructor in your state that teaches the Utah class. Don't worry, there are 700 instructors living outside of Utah that are licensed to teach the Utah class!!!

Pay your $100, take a 4 hour class, and no gun range time is required, and then file the paper work the instructor gives you with the state of Utah and BANG.....you are now licensed to carry a concealed weapon in 33 states (listed at the end of this post)!

Then buy your gun, conceal it, and roam all 33 states waiting for your chance to FIRE YOUR WEAPON for the FIRST TIME.

Imagine the excitement of walking into a quik-trip and seeing it it getting robbed!!! Imagine pulling out the Glock and opening fire at the bad guy. Imagine the feeling of firing your weapon, for the first time, at an actual human being!!! Watch the bystanders scatter as you empty your clip wildly at the robber!!! There is NOTHING like firing your weapon for the first time, but you are firing at a robbery suspect who is running from you in a populated store. Nothing can prepare you for the excitement!!!

So, join the 73,000 other people with non-residence permits from Utah!!!

Here is a new York Times article about the Utah License!!! http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/06/us/06guns.html

And here is the list of states (that honor the Utah non-residence permit) that you can pretend to be Dirty Harry in!!! Except Dirty Harry actually KNEW HOW TO FIRE A WEAPON!!! Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!

Alabama
Alaska
Colorado
Florida
Georgia
Louisiana
Mississippi
New Hampshire
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
South Dakota
Texas
Virginia
Washington State
West Virginia
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Idaho
Indiana
Iowa
Kentucky
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Tennessee
Vermont
Wyoming

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KansasVoter]

2. Thanks!!!

[eqfan592]

5. You're welcome!

You earned it!

[KansasVoter]

7. Sure, and thanks for your intelligent response to my 100% true post!!!

[enough]

3. I thought I'd heard it all. I am really starting to wonder about the gun-cult that

seems to think there is NO other societal value that can possibly take precedence over the god-given right to own and shoot guns anywhere any time.

PS, the obligatory "I am not a gun-hater" disclaimer. I have been formally instructed in shooting and used to be good at it. I cook and eat lots of delicious venison that has been shot by my friends and relatives on my land, etc. etc. etc. Even though I don't hate guns, I really am starting to wonder.

[eqfan592]

9. I'm really starting to wonder about the anti-gun-cult that...

...seems to think that there is NO societal problem that can't be solved by attacking firearms, people who shoot firearms, people who use them to defend themselves and more useless laws that will only restrict people who give a crap about the law in the first place.

Oh, I'm sorry, you've been formally instructed. That clearly makes you above reproach....

[KansasVoter]

10. So you think Utah's law is a good thing? Wow!

[enough]

17. As I said, I mention that because there is a tendency in these discussions on DU for

people to assume that someone wondering about absolute access to guns must be a gun-hater with no experience. That was obvious from my post.

Your response to what I said is so defensive that I can't think of a good way to reply. Obviously, the particular societal problem we are talking about is gun violence, so again obviously, it's not that strange that the possibility of restricting guns might be one of the options considered. (And if fact not all "civilized" societies have the same gun policies we have here.)

The idea that you actually think that I think that "there is NO societal problem that can't be solved by attacking firearms"....etc. is too absurd to discuss. Lets talk about the actual situation.

Then again, why bother.

[Katya Mullethov]

18. I've done the formal thing

They had a champagne fountain !

[xchrom]

4. Recommend

[baldguy]

6. People who would never dream of allowing people to drive a car without

a license or training - or cut hair - or be an accountant - think nothing of allowing novices to have access to deadly weapons. As you have noted, they even encourage it.

[KansasVoter]

8. You are using WAY to much logic here! :-)

[kelly1mm]

14. As driving a car, cutting hair, or being an accountant are not constitutionally

protected individual civil rights, I fail to see the similarity. Futher, my Mom cut my sister and my hair for years without a license (and I have the school pictures to prove it!) and I drove our farm truck all over our property begining at age 12 with no license at all.

[baldguy]

16. Owning a gun with absolutly no govt control is not a Constutional right, either.

It's astonishing that "Second Amendment supporters" can't decipher what the Second Amendment actually says.

[Katya Mullethov]

19. The right of the PEOPLE shall not be AFFRINGED !

I 'bout busted a gut .

[baldguy]

21. Always forget about that first part, dontcha?

What does "well regulated" mean?

[Katya Mullethov]

23. Able to shit on command

Or kill .

[X_Digger]

24. Well regulated like you colon, or your watch. n/t

[baldguy]

25. Thank you both for proving my point.

[Katya Mullethov]

26. I must forfeit to the scholar---- You win

And I still get to carry what I want .
Even if it is just my balls in my purse .

[cleanhippie]

53. Was your point that you have no idea what you are talking about?

[kelly1mm]

22. I think the Heller and McDonald cases have made it clear that the

SC believes that the 2nd ammendment is an individual constitutional civil right subject to some control, but not much. Further cases will define what control over that civil right is allowable.

[KansasVoter]

30. You people crack me up.....2nd amendment my ass....

I have asked 20 who had NRA Bumper sticker fools why they joined and 15 said "Gun Insurance" and none of them could cite the 2nd amendment. Only one knew the word Militia was even in it.

[kelly1mm]

32. I wonder how many people could recite the 4th ammendment? If they

could not then I guess they should not have 4th ammendment rights either?

[KansasVoter]

34. I doubt they cite it 100 times a week like this place!

[Marengo]

48. A cliche by now, but it needs to be said: "Cool Story, Bro" N/T

[cleanhippie]

54. You People???? YOU PEOPLE???? Who the fuck do you think you are?

[shadowrider]

38. Educate me wise one

What does the 2nd actually say?

[Katya Mullethov]

40. Infringed

Not affringed , the later is the emissions of a plastic man . WTF are all the "Shall not be affringed" You tube videos ??

[shadowrider]

55. Maybe they're cixelsyd and read "Inf" as "Aff"

:shrug:

[Katya Mullethov]

57. Not to me

It's unfamiliarity
http://www.nhgazette.com/2011/01/09/congressman-guinta-palinizes-the-2nd-amendment/

[-..__...]

42. And people would screech to the high heavens...

if their (resident), drivers licensee issued in one state, was not reciprocal/honored in the other 49 (non resident) states.

[cleanhippie]

52. A person can purchase and drive as many cars as they want without a license.

On private property. Driving on public roads is a privilege requiring a license.

Not sure what that has to do with Constitution Rights.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KansasVoter]

12. You are wrong as usual........

Where did I say they were not qualified instructors? I said you had to take a 4 hour class from a certified instructor!
Please post an apology!!!

[sailor65]

15. Nice try, but your record is well deserved

The State mandated training includes hands-on training in operation and handling, in addition to the usual legal curriculum. You clearly posted a lie. The only caveat is that you are allowed to use a rental weapon instead of your own. If you had actually done your homework, maybe you could have zeroed in on that!

Did you by any chance download and read the Utah class requirements, or did you simply parrot what the "News" outlet of choice told you?

[KansasVoter]

29. LOL....that is the best you can do. My whole post is correct except...

for the "never have held a gun" phrase. LOL, only you and other members here would think that makes you qualified.

YOU NEVER FIRE A GUN!!! Get it?

The point of my post is all that matters. The Utah law is a joke and if you really gave a shit about safety you would agree!

And believe me, you Gun Lovers not liking my posts is my goal. My stats always piss you MEN off.

Please inform me what else is wrong there 65 boy!

[-..__...]

43. So... Utah's licensing requirement is a joke?

Even MA (with some of the most stringent and ridiculous gun control laws in the country), doesn't require any range time or live fire in order to obtain a CCW permit.

[cleanhippie]

56. "The point of my post matters".....but obviously not the facts.

[PavePusher]

13. Someone missed their First Amendment training class. n/t

[safeinOhio]

20. A great quote about constitutions by

one of ours framers.



"Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the arc of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did beyond amendment. . . . Let us follow no such examples, nor weakly believe that one generation is not as capable of taking care of itself, and of... ordering its own affairs . . . Each generation is as independent of the one preceding, as that was of all which had gone before." ~ Thomas Jefferson, 1816

[PavePusher]

27. I veiw the Constitution as very malleable.

That's why it has an Amendment function.

[GreenStormCloud]

28. The Constitution is the foundation that all of our laws are built upon.

Are you so ready to discard the 1st amendment? How about the 5th?

[safeinOhio]

36. I agree with Jefferson.

A constitution is not gospel. It can change as society and technology changes. Just as the SC has, after 200 years, decided that the 2nd is an individual right, the same justices have decided that money equals speech and corporations have the rights without the responsibilities of an individual. As I have said over the years on this forum, gun policy and law will be determined by events. We are seeing that now and a few more events like this weeks or worse will severely change your gun rights.
I am not ready to discard the 2nd or the 1st, where have I said that. Talk about a straw man. I only quoted Jefferson. I feel the only way to preserve the 2nd is to make sure we do the most we can to prevent criminals and mentally impaired people from purchasing and possessing firearms. As long as I am a law abiding citizen, I have no problem with a background check on any purchase I make of a handgun. While I owned a 30 round mag, when I moved to Ohio it became illegal, so I had no problem with that and got rid of it. I have no problem with law enforcement having a record of all of my handguns as they are all for legal purposes. I do not fear my government, I elected it.

[GreenStormCloud]

37. Amending the Constitution is OK. It provides for that. N/T

[KansasVoter]

31. You again?

[PavePusher]

33. Indeed. Got that class yet? n/t

[RamboLiberal]

35. Hey Utah requires more training than my PA permit

No class in PA. Just submit your application to county sheriff and about 4-6 weeks later you go back if approved, pay $25 bucks or so, get picture taken and voila you got a license to carry.

I also got a Utah permit this year cause I travel to gun competitions in Ohio. The class actually was about 9-10 hours in length. My instructor had a lot of pistols and revolvers to discuss how to safely handle. Went over laws, etc. Had fingerprints taken, submitted app with photo and about 2 months later I had a Utah pemit.

BTW PA also issues a non-resident permit. But they don't make an industry of it yet like Utah & Florida does.

[KansasVoter]

39. Interesting, is the PA residence permit good for other states?

[RamboLiberal]

49. Yes it is good for a number of states

But not yet for Ohio. I feel that is probably because we don't require training while Ohio does. BTW I should've mentioned that in PA you have to submit references from 2 non-relatives in PA or in some counties in that county. Depends I think on the whim of the sheriff in that county if PA ok or has to be county resident for both the resident or non-resident permit. And you have to pick up in person so that prevents most non-residents from getting.

I also go to WV for competitions and my PA permit became good there 2-3 years ago which I was glad to see.

All that has to happen is for the AG in 2 states to agree to repriocity.

BTW the Utah instructor said Utah runs its database every 24 hours against the FBI database and will pull the permit if you get an arrest that would deny the permit.

[aikoaiko]

41. And yet, so few permitted/licensed folks commit crimes with their CCW weapon.

I think its because people who legally carry are conscientious types who take steps to be in compliance with the law. These are conscientious folks.

I'm surprised you would be so critical of the Utah classroom training. While one may not have to shoot a gun to get a Utah permit, they talk about safe handling and use of guns. Most of the problems I see with guns are people who make bad decisions (not miss their mark).

[KansasVoter]

44. Wow, even some of my Die HARD NRA Friends think Utah is a joke. Sorry you don't.

[aikoaiko]

45. Then your friends are ignorant. Why would they be against any gun safety education?

:shrug:

And yes, I know a Utah permit trainer. Its not a joke. Gun safety is not a difficult concept to learn in a classroom setting.


Here -- take a look at the curriculum. What do you oppose to? Where is the joke?

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/MTC01032011.pdf

[KansasVoter]

46. So you think that someone should be able to carry concealed and NEVER FIRED IT?

Then I'll add you to the list of Gun Lovers who are clueless!

[aikoaiko]

47. I think its up to the people of each state to decide.

It wouldn't bother me if my state required some practical training.

Again, we just don't see many problems with people who go through their state's permit/license process with their fire arms even when they are not required to have EVER fired a gun. Millions of people are carrying on the existing state laws and few of them make bad choices with the firearms while carrying concealed.

I understand why you want to create a problem where this is none, but there is still no problem.

[KansasVoter]

50. Wow, added to my list of gun lovers quotes!

[aikoaiko]

58. Does that make you a gun hater?

[cleanhippie]

51. Is this another one of those posts where you stir up the pot then disappear for a few months again?

[Hoopla Phil]

59. WRONG! Texas requires a handgun proficiency test. This is typical of your posts though.

And makes me suspect the entire list.

[X_Digger]

60. Doh, think the heat of the moment got ya..

Took me a second re-read to catch that he was talking about states that honor the UT permit.

[Hoopla Phil]

61. Oh, oops. my bad. Texas has in the past not honored other states CHL's

that had lesser qualifications than ours. I guess in my hast to catch up I did not catch all the details. What is that saying? "The devil is in the details"