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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:18 AM
Original message
NRA Should Have No Say Over CDC Firearms Studies
"Atlanta, we have a problem. And it's bigger problem than Charlie Sheen's meltdowns, although it's not likely to get nearly as much attention. If the National Rifle Association is being granted the opportunity to influence firearms reports conducted by researchers for the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), this practice must stop.

Last week, on behalf of the Brady Center, I sent a letter to Kathleen Sebelius, Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, questioning the NRA's "improper influence" over studies on firearms that are meant to be unbiased and scientific.

Our letter was prompted by comments from CDC Spokesperson Thomas Skinner, who indicated that researchers financed by CDC are asked to give the CDC a "heads-up" when they conduct firearms-related studies. The CDC then, "as a courtesy," informs the National Rifle Association before the studies are published or released to the general public. Skinner's comments were reported by the New York Times in a January 25, 2011, article, "N.R.A. Stymies Firearms Research."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/nra-should-have-no-say-ov_b_834715.html
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tosh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. I see nothing that says the NRA gets any say in what gets published.
Unrec for Brady hysteria, fear mongering and mendacious insinuation.
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Huffpo?
unrec for biased source w/dishonest misleading reporting.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Redundant, much? ;>) n/t
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. now why would the NRA need a sneak-peek at the results of these studies???
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 10:34 AM by DrDan
I think we know the answer to that.

oh yeah - rec'd
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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Listen up Doctor.....
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 11:52 AM by MicaelS
Gun Owners are not going to let the Medical Community, no matter whether it's the CDC, other researchers or any medical "LOBBYING" (Note the word there) group like the AMA, or the AAP, define or redefine the ownership of guns as a Public Health issue. Because we all know where that is going to lead. It is not going to happen. Period.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Suicide, murder, and assault are public health issues
as well as their causes, whether the NRA likes it or not.

And the CDC doesn't need gun owners' permission to study it.
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TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. The CDC needs the American people's permission to exist. The American people support gun rights.
Edited on Sun Apr-17-11 12:11 AM by TPaine7
If the CDC keeps publishing propaganda as science, they will be dealt with through the people's elected representatives.

And we, gun rights supporting Americans, are not impressed by their "studies", we see through them. We've read their published intent to make guns unpopular like cigarettes.

When you know the answer before you start, that's not science--no matter what the liars at Brady say.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. it is a public health issue - for the hundreds accidentally shot each year
Period.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
17.  What disease would be studied?
After all the name of the group is the "Center for Disease Control"?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. The CDC also studies injury, violence, and safety
http://www.cdc.gov/InjuryViolenceSafety/

all of which have quite a bit to do with guns.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
23.  Which has what to do with diseases? n/t
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. What do handguns have to do with the National Rifle Association?
:D
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. obsession
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. Huh?
How is informing them before a study is published, but after the field work is completed and analyzed "influencing" the study? But this is from the Huff Po, so give it all the credence it deserves.

I'm sure you feel the same sense of outrage about the networks using Helmke and his failing and member free Brady group as a reference for their reports too?
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
5. Riiiight. The Brady Bunch does know a lot about"improper influence" over studies on firearms
They ARE the experts on THAT tactic, for sure.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. researchers financed by CDC...
:shrug:

did you mean: research

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
11. The authoritarian NRA has control over taxpayer funded public health studies?
what's the word I'm searching for?

Oh yeah...

AUTHORITARIAN

Fuck the NRA

yup
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Cite the evidence, please.
See post # 2
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Go ahead make more shit up
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 05:21 PM by DonP
There's nothing there about NRA Control over anything.

The writer, I refuse to use the word author for some Huff Po asshole with an axe to grind, said they "Notify" the NRA when they are about to publish a gun related study. Can you show us where the control part comes in, except in your fear filled imagination?
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-11 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. No, they don't... (nt)
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. Unrec for positing anything citing documented republican liar helmke. N/T
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. I seem to remember how the Brady Campaign exaggerated the number of children
Edited on Fri Apr-15-11 06:10 PM by spin
killed by firearms.


A Lesson In Deception

In its fact sheet on children and guns, the Brady Campaign reports that one "young person" is killed with a gun every three hours; this is based on 2,893 deaths in 2002. . Even though these statistics are in a "fact sheet" purporting to address children, 66% of these deaths were 17, 18, and 19 year olds. . The Brady Campaign inflates their numbers by including these incidents, many of which are related to gang violence, and also include police intervention and self-defense shootings.

In 2002, 419 children under 14 were killed with guns; thats 1.1 per day. Only 60 were accidents; thats about 1 every 6 days. For comparison 113 died from falls, 156 were poisoned, 583 burned to death, 1,214 suffocated, and 2,352 were killed in car accidents. .
http://debunkthebradycampaign.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html


I just heard yesterday that one of my neighbors plans to join the Army just before his 18th birthday. He has parental permission. I wouldn't classify him as a child.

Neither the NRA nor the Brady Campaign be allowed to influence CDC reports. The reports should be strictly based on facts and should be free of political bias.

edited for HTML error

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. The Brady Campaign didn't say "children", did they.
Of course no link to the original is provided, and the debunk is debunked.
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gejohnston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. you mean these?
1 Brady Campaign, Children & Guns: A Lethal Combination. http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/factsheets/pdf/children.pdf

2 Center for Disease Control and Prevention. http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

3 Center for Disease Control and Prevention. http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yes! "Page Not Found"!
Slow down pardner, take a deep breath, and take a look at what you're pasting. Thanks.
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. The other two links work just fine.
And it wouldn't be the first time the B.C.'s have "disappeared" something that was an outright fabrication.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. The www.bradycampaign.org Web site appears to be completely down at the moment
It responds to pings but not to HTTP requests.
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Actually it was Handgun Control, Inc. ...
Which was the predecessor to the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.


Brady Campaign

***snip***

The Brady Campaign emerged from Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI), originally the National Council to Control Handguns (NCCH), and the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence (CPHV). NCCH was founded in 1974 by Dr. Mark Borinsky, a victim of gun violence, and became HCI in 1980.<4>

On June 14, 2001, Handgun Control, Inc. was renamed the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence in honor of Sarah and Jim Brady.<4> On October 1, 2001, it incorporated the Million Mom March.<5>

In January 2010 the Better Business Bureau published its Charity Review on the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, stating that it failed to meet six (of twenty) standards for charity accountability. This report will expire in 2012.<2>

Leadership

James and Sarah Brady have been influential in the movement since at least the mid-80s. Mrs. Brady replaced Nelson "Pete" Shields as chair in 1989.<6> Shields had held the position since 1978.<7>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Campaign



Firearm Safety/Kids & Guns

On January 19, 2001, during Senate confirmation hearings for Attorney General nominee Sen. John Ashcroft, Michael Barnes, the president of Handgun Control, Inc. (HCI, now Brady Campaign) grossly exaggerated the number of children who are killed with firearms each year. Mr. Barnes was assisted in his deception by a perennial anti-gun lobby water carrier, Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.). Their exchange went as follows:

***snip***

Other "gun control" supporters have resorted to the same deception. Then-President Bill Clinton tried to build public support for so-called "Triggerlock" and "smart" gun laws by claiming that 13 children are killed with guns every day. (NBC "Today Show," 3/2/00) Hillary Clinton said, "Every day in America we lose 13 precious children to gun-related violence." ("Remarks by the President and the First Lady on Gun Control Legislation," 4/27/99) HCI/Brady Campaign Chair Sarah Brady claimed the figure was 14 per day. (3/99). The HELP Network recently claimed the figure at nine per day. (Handgun Epidemic Lowering Plan, Help Network News, "Firearm Injury and Fatality Among Children and Adolescents.") Sometimes the figures are expressed as "5,000 per year" or "one every 90 seconds."

Anti-gunners produce their phony figures by adding the relatively small (and declining) number of firearm-related deaths among children to the much larger number of deaths among juveniles and young adults under the age of 20, and dishonestly calling the total "children." Sometimes, they have counted anyone under the age of 24 as a "child" to get an even higher number of deaths. The following table shows the correct figures for each age group.emphasis added
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=21&issue=009



NATIONAL REVIEW April 17, 2000 Issue
An Army of Gun Lies

***snip***

A full listing of the lies told by the antigun lobby could fill a book. A short list of the more popular ones would have to begin with the canard about the number of children killed by firearms. We are told repeatedly that 13, or 15, or 17 children every day are killed by guns. This factoid is used to conjure up pictures of dozens of little kids dying in gun accidents every week.

In truth, the number of fatal gun accidents is at its lowest level since 1903, when statistics started being kept. That’s right: Not only is the per capita accident rate at a record low, so is the actual number of accidents—even though the number of people and the number of guns are both much larger than in 1903. The assertions about “X children per day” are based on counting older teenagers, or even people in their early twenties, as “children.” The claims are true only if you count a 19-year-old drug dealer who is shot by a competitor, or an 18-year-old armed robber who is shot by a policeman, as “a child killed by a gun.” As for actual children (14 years and under), the daily death rate is 2.6. For children ten and under, it’s 0.4 per day—far lower than the number of children who are killed by automobiles, drowning, or many other causes.
emphasis added
http://old.nationalreview.com/17apr00/kopel041700.html



The De-Bunking of Handgun Control, Inc.

***snip***

Of the "12 Children a Day Killed" by guns, 70% of these "children" are 17 to 19 years old, shot by police or by their intended victim during the commission of a violent crime (typically drug or gang related crime). Good Riddance! Many of the rest are suicides, some are genuine victims of violent crime, and a small fraction are accidents.
http://www.digital-exp.com/doco/HCI-debunked.html#Children


I said that neither the Brady Campaign nor the NRA should be allowed in influence CDC reports. Their statistics should be clear of any political opinions or viewpoints.


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lawodevolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-15-11 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. Unrec for posting lies and dishonesty
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DWC Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-11 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
30. The "courtesy" goes both ways
I am absolutely confident that all actively interested organizations in any specific area of research are so informed by the CDC.

It is not possible that the CDC would allow preview to the NEA without providing an equal opportunity to the Brady Campaign.

This thread is misleading and deceptive at best.

UNREC

Semper Fi,
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