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8 tips on contacts with 'open carry' citizens (from PoliceOne.com)

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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:50 AM
Original message
8 tips on contacts with 'open carry' citizens (from PoliceOne.com)
http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/articles/3502436-8-tips-on-contacts-with-open-carry-citizens/

<snip>

Practical Tactics & Strategies

So, what can you do as a law enforcement officer or, as a citizen who will read this article on various forums nationwide? Here are some thoughts to ponder as well as tips to go by.

1.) Open carry is a legal right. Regardless of where personal beliefs may lie, it carries the weight of law and cannot be ignored, pushed aside, or worked around.
2.) Understand that — as with any belief that people feel strongly about — open carry is a form of political protest. While the majority will do what is asked of them without a lot of fuss, there will be extremists who are willing to be political martyrs by doing whatever it takes to push their agenda and raise awareness to their cause.
3.) Targeting open carry by finding ways to charge people with other violations and then ticketing or arresting them may backfire and could be very expensive in the long run. One of the universities in Utah apparently tried this approach and it was leaked to the press. Now we run into civil liberties violations, etc.
4.) Know the letter of the law and the interpretations of the law in various districts. Have a written document that can be referred to online or given to those parties interested in them.
5.) Even if you don’t agree with open carry, stay objective and keep your feelings to yourself. It is the behavior of the person — not the gun — that we key on. If they get annoyed and start protesting you, remember that unless they are threatening you with harm, they have a right to voice their opinion, even if they raise their voice at you.
6.) It still takes time to draw and load the firearm. It can be done in around two seconds for well trained individuals. As with any contact, watch the hands and body language.
7.) Follow good judgment. IF THERE IS PROBABLE CAUSE to treat them as an armed criminal, by all means do so. However, when you make contact with someone carrying openly without good probable cause, the strategy of “when in doubt, prone ‘em out” would not be my first choice. Keep your distance if you can, and ask questions so you can get some indicators of the mental/emotional state of the contact prior to moving in closer.
8.) From a officer safety perspective, at least you KNOW that they are carrying a weapon! That knowledge alone will keep you from becoming complacent. Think of it as an opportunity to practice your officer safety tactics.

Conclusion

The right to self defense — as well as the right to keep and bear arms — is fundamental and has huge support in this country. Open carry has come about because of perceived government infringement on those rights. You as a law enforcement officer will be looked upon as part of that infringement and will incur indignation, hostility, and anger expressed as verbal or non-verbal protest. Don’t take it personally. They see government when you contact them. Stay calm, professional, watchful, and respectful.

<more>
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. I doubt the majority of the idiots who do 'open carry' can 'draw & load' in 2 seconds
The think they're so cool to carry but honestly, they don't know jackshit on how to actually use the gun.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Actually most who carry, open or otherwise tend to have more practice than most cops
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Your insinuations and assertions are unsupported and vile.
You are in the wrong place here.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:07 AM
Original message
They're very good at anything gun related.
Noticing logical fallacies in teabagger rhetoric--not so much.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. When I OC I carry loaded ( why wouldn't I?)
and I can change magazines in about a second. I carried (and used) a gun throughout my military career and was able to sucessfully defnd myself from an attempted mugging w/ a gun.

Most prohis think they're so cool shooting off their mouth but honestly,they don't know jackshit about what they're actually talking about
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PavePusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Unloaded open carry only seems to be in effect in California.
And the people who do it there do seem to practice.

What is your level of firearm knowledge, that you can so blithly smear an entire group of people?
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. And how do you come to this conclusion?
I don't OC, not legal in Texas but I do CC. I fire tens of thousands of rounds yearly as do many gun enthusiasts. If they do not fire that many I would say it may be in the thousands, unlike police who only shoot when they need to qualify.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. Dup, but then agan, you knew that
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 09:57 AM by ProgressiveProfessor
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SecularMotion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. How will this apply to home defense?
Should citizens assume any intruder with a gun is open carry?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. If your state has a Castle Law, you can shoot first and ask questions later
and get away with it

yup
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. And apparently you can tell a massive falsehood
And magically make it true by posting "yup" at the end of your post.
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gravity556 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-27-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. re:And apparently you can tell a massive falsehood
"And magically make it true by posting "yup" at the end of your post."

Is that what that is? I didn't want to say anything in case it was some kind of nervous tic or tourettes or something, and I've never been one to poke fun at something someone can't help, but now that I know it's intentional jackassery, well, I feel like I need to make up for lost time..
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NewMoonTherian Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Just as it should be. n/t
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GKirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Huh?
Are you asking me if I will assume that an intruder into my home who is carrying a gun is a threat to me?
If so, yes.
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SecularMotion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Unless the intruder was brandishing the gun
Edited on Tue Apr-26-11 12:20 PM by SecularMotion
why would you feel threatened?

It could just be someone from the gas company with open carry.
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GKirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Double HUH?
Someone from the gas company IN my house?

Why?
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SecularMotion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Utility companies can enter your home in an emergency
"Except when an emergency may threaten the health or safety of a person, the surrounding area or the utility's or municipality's distribution system or where authorized by court order, an agent of a utility or municipality, otherwise duly authorized to inspect and examine apparatus may not enter locked premises without permission of a person lawfully in control of the premises, nor use any manner of force to carry out such inspection and examination."

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$PBS47$$@TXPBS047+&LIST=SEA46+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=04308081+&TARGET=VIEW
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GKirk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. They sure as heck better be
hollaring: GAS COMPANY! I'M INVESTIGATING A GAS LEAK!
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. That's a rather odd scenario, being that NY State does not have open carry.
And I rather doubt any gas company would allow their employees to carry an object known to produce a flame from the business

end when used.
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SecularMotion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Are you denying gas company employees their rights under the 2nd?
They sometimes work in high risk areas. Don't they have a right to self-defense?
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. They work in areas at high risk for an explosion. And there is no 2A infringement.
"Sorry, you cannot carry a weapon on our customers' private property" isn't an infringement.
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SecularMotion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. You're right. An accidental discharge could cause an explosion.
Wouldn't the gas company be insured to cover accidents?
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-11 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. why would you feel threatened by someone brandishing a gun?
Unless they've already shot at you, there's no reason to get nervous.
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ManiacJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-29-11 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I am not sure you are using the common definition of "brandishing".
The common definition is "to display with the intent to intimidate or threaten".
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. Unrecced for duplication
We already had this thread about the article in question: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x406679
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
8.  #6 is a reference to California open carry
" 6.) It still takes time to draw and load the firearm. It can be done in around two seconds for well trained individuals. As with any contact, watch the hands and body language "

In California the only legal way to open carry is with a unloaded weapon. Ammo can be carried on the body, but not in the weapon.

Draw and load of a semi-auto pistol in 2 seconds, or less, is very passable, and not all that hard.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJXNPo5krvw&feature=related


Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
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rl6214 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. So now you've resorted to copying other peoples posts?
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-26-11 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. kickin' it higher than the dupe thread
:rofl:
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