Accusing gun owners of living in fear is fallacious.

[ZombieHorde]

I occasionally read posts from anti-gun folks claiming gun owners live in fear. ~People buy guns to protect themselves from all of the scary bad guys in the world.~

But anti-gun arguments can also be said to be based on fear. ~If a guy in a restaurant has a gun, it may go off and kill me, or my loved ones. How scary!~

Both the self-defense arguments and the innocent-people-getting-shot arguments can be said to be fear based, but do you really live in fear? Maybe some on one side or the other, but certainly not the majority.

I think the fear accusations are personal attacks meant to distract from, or dismiss, the argument the pro-gun folks are making. This is clearly fallacious argumentation.

[rrneck]

1. And a little bit insulting.

But that specific approach isn't strictly against the rules.

[SteveM]

2. I can out-sleep ANY gun-controller/prohibitionist.

The controller/prohibitionist always seems to bring up the subject of "fear," "paranoia," repeat until it becomes a chant, then points a finger at pro-2A folks. Straw men dancing in a circle.

As Euripides said: "He who first smelt it, dealt it."

[HockeyMom]

3. There is going to be an uprising against the Muslims

and Obama, who is going to take away your guns and ammo. My Republican, Faux News watching husband says. The problem is that after complications from 3 surgeries in 6 months, he is no position to defend himself against ANYONE, no mstter how many guns he owns. Forget ME. I won't be protecting you, or anybody, with your guns.

See, you never know what hand life will deal you. You might have to depend on somebody who is ANTI GUN.

[petronius]

4. That's true, you never know what hand you'll get. But it's up to you to decide how to play it

And it's up to you to choose how prepared you'll be for any hand, no matter how unlikely the combination of cards...

[SteveM]

5. I'm sorry you are going through this...

But I think the OP was referencing attacks on pro-2A folks in these threads. And they are not Republican, or Faux News watching "conservanazis," as I was called. They are your fellow progressives.

My Dad gave up his guns to his sons a couple years before he died. He depended on folks to help him, and never inquired as to their stance on 2A, but that is not the point. He was not paranoid or "filled with fear," except perhaps of dying.

[spin]

8. Do you believe that passing all sorts of gun laws that would make it difficult ...

for honest law abiding citizens to buy firearms for sport and self defense or to legally carry them would effect the criminal element in the least?

Do you perhaps believe that if you were to ban categories of firearms such as semi-auto pistols and rifles or for that matter to ban and confiscate all firearms would turn this nation into a peaceful paradise?

I feel sorry for your husband. The fact that currently he cannot defend himself or you is tragic. That doesn't mean that he couldn't in the past or that he will never be able to after he, hopefully, recovers.

Your damn right you will not be protecting me or anyone with MY guns. I don't even led them out to people I know unless they are members of my family.

I don't call people who oppose the ownership of firearms in an emergency nor do I hold any hope that their plans to restrict firearm ownership for honest people will reduce crime in the least.

I am not a fool.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

63. wow.

:o my mind is reeling with what I can infer from those statements :o

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Euromutt]

67. We're not your husband

And I think it might be healthy for your marriage if you took up whatever issues you have with your husband's perceived shortcomings with him, instead of projecting them and then taking out your frustrations on us.

[iverglas]

6. hack hack hack

It's the straw ... it's choking me ... open a window, please ...

But anti-gun arguments can also be said to be based on fear. ~If a guy in a restaurant has a gun, it may go off and kill me, or my loved ones. How scary!~

Vacuum up the straw, and you're left with the premise you were trying to bury in it, aren't you:

~People buy guns to protect themselves from all of the scary bad guys in the world.~

Not that the straw actually countered that statement anyhow.

I think the fear accusations are personal attacks meant to distract from, or dismiss, the argument the pro-gun folks are making.

Were you planning to tell us what it was -- in terms as cartoonish as those in which you framed the opposing argument maybe? Just for entertainment value.

[ZombieHorde]

10. I agree reducing an argument to one sentence will usually produce errors.

I reduced both arguments to one cartoonish sentence as a reminder of the common arguments I read on this gun forum. I was hoping my readers would know what I was talking about. I was relying on context.

Although I deeply respect argumentation and logic, I still make many errors, but they are honest errors. In retrospect, I probably should not have made light of the arguments, or I should have pointed out I was making light of the arguments. I was not trying to offend; I was just trying to be mildly humorous while making a point.

Were you planning to tell us what it was -- in terms as cartoonish as those in which you framed the opposing argument maybe?

No, I wasn't planning on telling you what it was. The point of my OP was to attack the accusation of gun owners living in fear.

[iverglas]

11. let's read what you wrote again

I reduced both arguments to one cartoonish sentence as a reminder of the common arguments I read on this gun forum.

The "both arguments" in question were both ascribed to one side of the issue:

I occasionally read posts from anti-gun folks claiming gun owners live in fear. ~People buy guns to protect themselves from all of the scary bad guys in the world.~

But anti-gun arguments can also be said to be based on fear. ~If a guy in a restaurant has a gun, it may go off and kill me, or my loved ones. How scary!~

The first is not bad. The second is entirely crap.

You made up your own "anti-gun argument" and put it in the mouths of people who do not advance it.

You produced a cartoon entirely of your own production.

If you want to offer something genuinely said by some genuine advocate of effective firearms control that can genuinely be said to be based on fear, you could give it another shot.

I, for instance, have never said anything remotely like that nonsense you placed in the mouths of some nameless and numberless makers of "anti-gun arguments".

And I don't actually appreciate being portrayed as a fool, or seeing others you happen to want to denigrate portrayed as fools.

The point of my OP was to attack the accusation of gun owners living in fear.

No shit.

[ZombieHorde]

40. No, those were representing both the pro and the con arguments.

This is why you agree with one, but not the other.

Here is a restaurant/gun thread which contains arguments similar to the one I posted.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x449236#449251

For example: "I'd suggest the shootings have only yet to begin ... !!!"

[iverglas]

46. what abject fucking nonsense

I occasionally read posts from anti-gun folks claiming gun owners live in fear. ~People buy guns to protect themselves from all of the scary bad guys in the world.~

But anti-gun arguments can also be said to be based on fear. ~If a guy in a restaurant has a gun, it may go off and kill me, or my loved ones. How scary!~


So those were representing both the pro and the con arguments?

No, they were not.

The first was a statement of what you read, relatively accurate as far as it went, stating what some advocates of stringent firearms control say. It wasn't an "argument", even to the extent that it is something some people say. "People buy guns to protect themselves from all of the scary bad guys in the world" is not an argument for or against anything.

The second was a stupid caricature of what some advocates of stringent firearms control say. If it was intended to represent an argument made by them, it was bullshit. If it was intended to represent an argument made by opponents of stringent firearms control, it wasn't; again, a characterization of one's opponents (particularly a false and insulting one) is not an argument for or against anything.

Picking out one individual who professes to espouse a particular position and generalizing their statements into a representation of people who espouse that position often isn't wise or useful to your cause, by the way. It only shows that you are avoiding addressing what may be more serious and solid argument.

Both statements were characterizations of one side of the issue, exhibiting varying degrees of accuracy and civility.

I think you may overestimate your powers.


html fixed

[ZombieHorde]

54. I think I overestimated your reading comprehension.

So I will let you write, and I will read. Share with me the reason some people don't want firearms in restaurants.

[TheWraith]

19. So then are you saying you're not concerned about accidental discharges?

Given the fact that accidental firearms discharges in public are far less common than people getting struck by lightning, I can only conclude that either you admit that you are not worried about such things, or else any fear of it you have is an irrational one.

[iverglas]

22. I'm saying what I said

Oddly enough.

What I said was that this:

~If a guy in a restaurant has a gun, it may go off and kill me, or my loved ones. How scary!~

is not an "anti-gun argument", even if I accept the ludicrous "anti-gun" meme as meaning that this is an argument made by people who oppose the carrying of firearms in public.

I am an advocate of stringent firearms control. I might be afraid of chickens. That would not make "omg that chicken is going to peck me to death" an "anti-gun argument".

[Union Scribe]

7. Hell I don't mind that half as much as the insinuations that

gun owners, here, are violent, bloodthirsty goons looking for their chance to murder people.

[spin]

9. Some people who oppose firearm ownership live in fear of honest responsible people ...

who own firearms.

They tend to project their own personal fears on gun owners rather than admit that they themselves are the people who are paranoid.

[iverglas]

12. whozat then, spin?

Some people who oppose firearm ownership live in fear of honest responsible people ...
who own firearms.

Who are those people, and who are these people they fear?

They tend to project their own personal fears on gun owners rather than admit that they themselves are the people who are paranoid.

Money, mouth, please.

If you have evidence that someone is paranoid and not admitting it, let's have it.

[MyrnaLoy]

15. Kathryn M. Benoit

lived in fear of a man who police gave a concealed weapon permit to. She lived in fear for 5 months until he killed her.

[iverglas]

16. and she wasn't "paranoid"

and he wasn't an "honest responsible person".

;)

Although he was kind of certified as such, having been issued a permit to carry a concealed firearm ... so yeah, I guess, eh?

[MyrnaLoy]

17. I think I see the solution

concealed weapon permits to protect us from concealed weapon permit holders. It was Ms. Benoit's fault I guess for not having a permit.

[rl6214]

29. And what did the police do to protect her?

[iverglas]

31. some of you people have sadly low expectations

I pay my police services to enforce the law, and amazingly, I expect them to enforce the law!

Perhaps if you set your expectations a little higher, you'd get better service.

If a Canadian police service were informed of someone holding a firearm to a person's head and threatening to kill them, that person would be under arrest and being held without bail in 5 minutes.

And any cop to whom that was reported who did not act on the report would be under some heavy duty investigation.

Dream the impossible dream, folks. It could come true.

[rl6214]

49. WOW, they are THAT GOOD!?

"If a Canadian police service were informed of someone holding a firearm to a person's head and threatening to kill them, that person would be under arrest and being held without bail in 5 minutes."

5 minutes you say? Must be Dudley Dooright and the mounties:)

You sure they aren't too busy?

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/international/canadian-mounties-investigated-for-watching-female-prisoners-have-sex-090110

[Tuesday Afternoon]

64. and yet --- as you and I both know, a lot can happen in 5 minutes.

and where I live the response time is 15 minutes, maybe less depending on where they are patrolling in the county, at the time of my call.
Of course, you know intruders allow phone calls :eyes:

tick.tock.

[spin]

24. If you read through to posts from some of those who oppose concealed carry ...

in this forum, you will see examples of what I mentioned. People who carry concealed on a regular basis are often accused of living in fear or being unwilling to leave their house without a concealed handgun.

Statistics have proven conclusively that those who have concealed carry permits pose very very little threat to other honest citizens. You have far more chance of getting hit by a lightning bolt in Florida than shot by a person with a concealed weapons permit, unless you are foolish enough to attack such a person with the intention of killing or severely injuring them.

The monthly report on concealed carry that Florida publishes shows that although a total of 2,031,106 concealed weapons permits have been issued in Florida since 10/01/1987 and currently there are 843,463 valid concealed carry permits only 168 permits have been revoked for the commission of a crime where a firearm was involved. Not all those revoked licenses involved a shooting as a license can be revoked for brandishing a weapon and many other reasons such as carrying a firearm into a restricted area. http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html

You have FAR more reason to fear an armed criminal in Florida than a person who has a concealed weapons permit and is carrying. In the United States an honest citizen who is willing to meet the requirements can carry a concealed firearm in many states. This allows such a person to have a means to stop a violent attack that threatens his health or his life. Carrying a firearm is an individual choice and is no guarantee that it will successful deter an attacker.

How do we define a paranoid personality?

paranoid personality n.

A personality disorder characterized by unwarranted mistrust and suspicion, hypersensitivity to the words or actions of others, and rigidity of emotions or behavior.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/paranoid+personality?qsrc=2446

Coping Strategies and Defense Mechanisms: Basic and Intermediate Defenses
Mark Dombeck, Ph.D. and Jolyn Wells-Moran, Ph.D. Updated: Jul 3rd 2006

Apart from personality traits, people also tend to develop habitual modes and methods of managing stress and coping with upsetting emotions. By and large, these habitual methods do help people to manage and defuse stressful situations they find themselves in, but they are not all equally efficient at this task. Some work better than others. While some really do succeed in helping people to manage upsetting emotion, the lesser quality methods generally end up causing more problems than they solve.

***snip***

Projection; a person's thought or emotion about another person, place or thing is too troubling to admit, and so, that thought or emotion is attributed to originate from that other person, place or thing. For example: "He hates me", when it is actually the speaker who hates. A variation on the theme of Projection is known as "Externalization". In Externalization, you blame others for your problems rather than owning up to any role you may play in causing them.
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=9791&cn=353

So I believe that many people who have an irrational fear of people who legally carry firearms project their fear on those who do carry and accuse them of being paranoid and/or fearful.

It is not irrational to be aware of the fact that you can be attacked by a violent criminal and to take reasonable precautions in order to be prepared for such an eventuality.

Violent Crime — General

The odds of being a victim of a violent crime during adulthood are greater than 2 to 1. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)

More than one in three (35 percent) of adults are estimated to fall victim to violent crime. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)

In 2005, U.S. residents age 12 or older experienced an estimated 23 million violent and property crimes. (U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, National Crime Victimization Survey — September 2006)
http://www.witnessjustice.org/news/stats.cfm#violentcrime

I rest my case.

[iverglas]

26. now let's go back to what I asked you

Some people who oppose firearm ownership live in fear of honest responsible people ...
who own firearms.

**** Who are those people, and who are these people they fear?

They tend to project their own personal fears on gun owners rather than admit that they themselves are the people who are paranoid.

Money, mouth, please.

*** If you have evidence that someone is paranoid and not admitting it, let's have it.


I don't see responses in your post.


Reiterating your claim:

So I believe that many people who have an irrational fear of people who legally carry firearms project their fear on those who do carry and accuse them of being paranoid and/or fearful.

does not lend strength to it.

Who are these people who have an irrational fear of people who legally carry firearms?

What evidence do you have of their irrational fear / paranoia?

[spin]

28. I posted my response ...

if it doesn't meet your standards so be it.

[MyrnaLoy]

14. Wanna know who lived in fear?

This girl: Kathryn M. Benoit. Wanna know why? 'Bustamante was issued a concealed weapons permit through the Latah County Sheriff's Office on March 28, expiring in 2016.....Police found the apparent murder weapon and five other guns in the hotel room.

Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/08/26/1773987/autops...

Issued the permit at the end of March and used it to murder 5 months later.

"On June 10, 2011 at 3:04 p.m.: Lt. Lehmitz received a telephone call from Kathryn M. Benoit. This call was a result of the University of Idaho referring her to address safety concerns. Lt. Lehmitz spoke with her advising her of basic safety principles and asked her to call police if any threatening or suspicious incidents occurred. July 14, 2011: University of Idaho requested the Moscow Police Department participate in a threat assessment concerning the alleged threatening behavior of Bustamante relating to Benoit.

Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/08/26/1773987/autops...

3 months after he was issued a concealed weapon permit his actions were reported to the police depart. This woman was hit with 11 .45 cal bullets by someone law enforcement thought was a good risk. 3 months after the permit law enforcement knew of complaints. This woman is now dead.

4 months after the permit was issued law enforcement was once again notified by the university. Still he buys weapons to kill a young woman.

Drugs in the room: Clonazepam, Lexapro, Lamotrigine, and Alprazolam.

Weapons in his room: Smith and Wesson M&P .45-caliber handgun, Smith and Wesson .44-caliber revolver, Springfield Armory .45-caliber handgun, uger LCP .380-caliber handgun, Glock 9mm caliber handgun, Taurus Judge .45 caliber / .410 gauge handgun, and ammunition for each weapon.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x454506

[TheWraith]

18. So the MURDERER wouldn't have committed murder if he was afraid of a misdemeanor carry charge?

By definition, the only people who are restricted from carrying a gun by not having a carry permit are the law abiding folks.

[MyrnaLoy]

20. you know what?

one of those law abiding folks put 10 .45cal bullets in this young woman. How are you going to spin that?

[TheWraith]

21. The only person spinning here is you.

You're trying to claim that if this guy hadn't had a carry permit, he would magically have been prevented from committing a murder. But in reality, he would have just walked out the door with the gun in a pocket, just like the Virginia Tech shooter, or anyone else intent on committing murder. Laws generally only apply to the law abiding.

[iverglas]

23. let me tell you what I claim

A person this dangerous to the public and to individuals was certified as an appropriate person to carry a firearm in public.

Imagine what homicidal psychos are entitled to acquire firearms, a much easier threshold to pass, if this one got a permit to carry his in public?

So I claim that homicidal psychos are being authorized to carry firearms in public.

Instils great confidence in the whole system, don't it?

[MyrnaLoy]

36. perfect

answer!

[rl6214]

56. Bzzzzt

Wrong answer.

[PavePusher]

45. Incorrect.

A documented abuser killed her, and the police and university failed to do anything to stop it, after repeated communications/confrontations.

And you insinuate that this is somehow the fault of legal, non-abusive gun owners, who should rely on the police for protection.... the same ones who empirically failed...

Do your eyes cross when you come up with that kind of "logic"?

[iverglas]

47. false

And you insinuate that this is somehow the fault of legal, non-abusive gun owners

False, ugly bullshit.

Do your fingers hurt when you falsely make the ugly allegation that anyone but you has said that bullshit?

[rl6214]

52. Nothing false there

He was a documented abuser and the university and police did fail to do anything about it. You can't spin that.

[iverglas]

58. non-responsive

If you're going to defend someone else's ugly false stupid statement, do it, don't pirouette.

The statement was:

And you insinuate that this is somehow the fault of legal, non-abusive gun owners

Have at it. Quote me insinuating that.

[rl6214]

51. "How are you going to spin that?"

The only "spin" is from you. You keep bleating about "those law abiding folks". Obviously he wasn't a law abiding fold. Bad people do bad things. He would have done bad things if he didn't have a gun. Get over it.

[rl6214]

30. I think she probably lived in fear of this man long before

he was issued his concealed carry license.

[spin]

34. It seems to me that there were plenty of red flags waved in this situation ...

and as is usual the supposedly responsible authorities had their heads right up their asses.

[Katya Mullethov]

43. If his unique interests

captured the interest and attention of peers and mentors alike .... well your pretty much fucked . Not a lot you can do at that point .

[Hoyt]

27. Then, don't carry guns, buy hi-cap mags, special loads, practice fast draw, and worse.

People can couch it as self-defense, but it's more than that for most here. One can defend themselves without guns in public.

Cracks me up when some guy who says he's just defending himself straps a gun or two to his body before going out in public; practices by shooting silhouette targets; looks for the lead that will expand and drop a moose; covets anything marketed as "assault" or "tactical;" etc. Heck, one of these guys is looking for body armor because he can't carry enough guns to cover his entire body.

[rl6214]

33. Blah, blah, blah

just more of your shtick

[spin]

38. I guess you believe that the average person ...

has a fair chance of surviving an attack from a person with a firearm or a knife without injury.

It must be nice to live in a fantasy world.

Just how would you defend yourself against an armed opponent? I would love to hear your advise. Perhaps you can teach me some valuable techniques that I have never heard of.

[rl6214]

53. First he'd have to reassemble is field stripped 1911 blindfolded

Then he'd lay it aside and using his ultra ninja skills he'd fend off and incapacitate his attacker and hold him until the mounties arrived.

[ileus]

44. there are no concealable moose rounds firing CC pistols.

[oneshooter]

65. Please kind Sir, show us the post you found this information in. n/t

[MyrnaLoy]

13. Boo!

Bang.

[Hoyt]

25. If not paranoia or irrational fear, what makes one buy multiple guns; strap one or two to bodies

before going out in public; practice fast draw and shooting people; buying guns capable of taking out multiple people; buy things manufactured and marketed to appeal to gunners' baser instincts; making getting your guns ready the first priority when a hurricane approaches; encouraging others to do all this BS; and worse?

Maybe anti-gunners are just tired of people polluting society with the friggin things and promoting that others start polluting as well.

[spin]

32. I own multiple guns because I enjoy shooting ...

and my firearms are of different calibers and are suitable for different forms of shooting.

I carry because I am realistic enough to realize that violent crime does happen in the real world. I choose to be prepared in case I am ever unlucky enough to be attacked.

Violent Crime — General

The odds of being a victim of a violent crime during adulthood are greater than 2 to 1. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)

More than one in three (35 percent) of adults are estimated to fall victim to violent crime. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Youth Violence Research Bulletin — February 2002)

In 2005, U.S. residents age 12 or older experienced an estimated 23 million violent and property crimes. (U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, National Crime Victimization Survey — September 2006)
http://www.witnessjustice.org/news/stats.cfm#violentcrime

Why don't you and people like you focus on taking firearms away from the criminal element by insisting that current laws be enforced and penalties for a criminal caught carrying a firearm be so severe as to discourage the practice.

That would have a hell of a lot more effect on reducing violent crime than "feel good" laws that try to restrict, ban or confiscate firearms from honest citizens.

edited for typo

[Hoyt]

37. Shooting people, or at least training/preparing to do so?

If one carries in public, it's more than target shooting, or hunting.

[spin]

39. True. Defensive shooting is a martial art...

as are karate, judo and jujitsu.

I suppose you oppose all martial arts.

[rl6214]

35. You ever going to come up with any proof that any of this ever

happens, aside from in your own warped mind or are you just gonna keep making shit up?

Kinda like field stripping your 1911 blindfolded or using a red dot scope for long distance shooting.

Got that picture of the cowboy with two guns strapped to his thigh yet?

[ZombieHorde]

42. The vast majority of gun owners in Montana are not like this.

I have only seen one guy with multiple pistols strapped to his body in real life. I saw him when I was camping with my family. He came and chatted with us, he seemed nice.

[iverglas]

48. ah, he seemed quite nice

Too bad you missed all the rate-your-professors comments about Bustamante. He was a truly wonderful guy!

[ZombieHorde]

50. Google...ah, a teacher-student relationship that ends with murder-suicide.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/27/ernesto-bustamante-profes_n_939021.html

I don't see what that indecent has to do with my post.

[iverglas]

59. ZombieHorde come very lately

Are you suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about? :eyes:

I read the rate-your-professor comments BEFORE THEY WERE DELETED FROM THE INTERNET. Jeezus.

Students from both his schools praised him.

The comments from U of Idaho are gone. These from his previous school, old Dominion University, Norfolk, VA, remain:

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=815038

9/30/09
Psych404
Good Quality
Easiness 1
Helpfulness 5
Clarity 5
Rater Interest 5
Excellent interaction with and engagement of students-truly cares about our success but does not tolerate non-critical thinking;) On that note, he highly encourages critical, analytical, thinking outside the box. A great lecturer with superb knowledge base considering breadth and depth. Accomplished researcher in the field; impressive CV.Great guy

12/5/06
PSYCH318
Good Quality
Easiness 3
Helpfulness 5
Clarity 5
Rater Interest 3
Awesome guy as a person and as a TA, is always available to call if you need help at anytime of the day! One of the only teachers I call my friend.

2/26/06
Psyc 412
Good Quality
Easiness 2
Helpfulness 5
Clarity 4
Rater Interest 5
This professor rocks! I love having grad students as teachers...he is casual in his lecture style and makes the class fun!

Narcissists are lots of fun. Until you cross them.


I don't see what that indecent has to do with my post.

I don't know what that means ... even if I assume you meant to type "incident" ...

You don't know what the widespread assessment of a murderer as being a super nice guy has to do with your post about somebody you ran across who was festooned in firearms at the time seeming like a nice guy?

Okay.

[ZombieHorde]

61. "Are you suggesting that I don't know what I'm talking about?"

No, I was suggesting I didn't know what you are talking about. A significant difference.

Side note: I wonder why your eyes smiley didn't work right. It is typed out correctly. Huh.

I don't know what that means ... even if I assume you meant to type "incident" ...

Yes, I apologize for the confusing typo. I think that incident was more about his mental illness than his collection of firearms. Unless you are suggesting a collection of firearms is suggestive of mental illness.

[rl6214]

55. Hey, you got all your made up talking points into one post

Let's see:

Paranoia or irrational fear-check
buy multiple guns-check
strap one or two to bodies-check
practice fast draw-check
baser instinct-check

You just can't make this much comedy up.:rofl:

[DWC]

57. Peace Through Strength

The concept works for National governments, State governments, County / Parish governments. and Municipal governments.

It works equally well for individuals who are free to govern themselves within Constitutionally consistent Law.

The philosophy instilled in most of us who have served in the military:

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; because I am the meanest mother f*#ker in this valley."

I was armed then. I am armed now.

Semper Fi,

[Tejas]

60. Please, get a clue.

You expect them to concentrate on the real problem? The real problem of actual criminals bent on crime? Why concentrate on savages with ill will in their heads when it's so much easier to heckle law abiding citizens. For that matter, you expect them look in their own back yard in their own country instead of trolling us here in the land of freedom?

Surely you jest!


:sarcasm:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

62. excellent post. thanks for making it. n/t