Should gun control candidates be more pragmatic in this election?

[gatlingforme]

Will being a pro gun control candidate be a liability in this election year?
http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2003/10/we_595_02a.html

October 21, 2003

Shotgun Wedding
Plenty of observers did a double-take last week when the top Democratic senator, Tom Daschle, supported a bill to protect gun dealers and manufacturers from legal liability, finding himself on the same side as all the major gun groups, from the NRA on down. "It is wrong -- and a misuse of the civil justice system -- to try to punish honest, law-abiding people for illegal acts committed by others without their knowledge or involvement," said Daschle.
If some centrist Democrats have their way, we can expect to hear much more of this kind of talk from Dems, many of whom have been hurt at the polls by their anti-gun image.

(snip)

Certainly the centrist Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the intra-party group that launched Bill Clinton's national career, thinks so. The DLC held a forum in Atlanta last week, entitled "God, Guns and Guts: Seizing the Cultural Center," and devoted to the proposition that Democrats need to make inroads into key constituencies such as "gun owners, people of faith, married couples with kids."

(snip) more please go to link at top.

John Kerry, Wesley CLark and Howard Dean are all "gun friendly" ... and now that John Kerry is our choice for President, I think the question I posted is valid -- even being pragmatic about gun control or gun safety reaches out to more people which encompasses more constituents. IMHO

[wurzel]

1. The only thing 911 didn't change.

"Homeland Security" has no plans to keep automatic weapons out of the hands of terrorists.

[MrBenchley]

3. Hell, they're plotting to put them on the market

What's public safety compared to gun industry profits (and fat campaign contributions from the scum of the earth)?

[slackmaster]

17. I believe terrorists are subject to the same laws as everyone else

The process of buying an automatic weapon is far from trivial.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/index.htm

[MrBenchley]

2. Fuck THAT shit, as we say in Brooklyn....

Frankly, gun control is a win-win issue...and Chimpy and the GOP snuggling up top the Aryan Nation types on assault weapons only further serves to marginalize them.

And I see no reason to pipe down in any way, especially since the NRA, the GOA and every gun loony forum on the web is cheerfully repeating the Swift Boat lies and other anti-Democrat crap....confirming what's REALLY lurking under that "gun rights" sheet.

[billbuckhead]

4. Not standing up to the extremists in the gun crowd= soft on terrorism

One of these days terrorists will take advantage of our weak and weakly enforced gun laws and America will regret it.

[MrBenchley]

6. Exactly so...

Meanwhile Americans are shot and terrorized at a rate approaching that of third world countries, because we let a corrupt and disgraceful industry set public policy.

[gatlingforme]

8. One of these days terrorists will take advantage.....

LOL, well, I hope the terrorists don't find out about this little secret. and to add to that assessment, why havn't the terrorists taken advantage of this fact? I suppose if our "weak and weakley enforced gun laws" were more forcefully enforced than the terroists will pack up and go back to the hole they crawled out of. I could just hear it now, Terrorist: "well Mohammad, these pro gun control people are really scary and won't back down ---- and we certainly do not want to break any laws regarding gun control before we blow up another building....

[goju]

9. Damn, we cant get an AK now?....

I guess we have to resort to these RPG's and all this C4. Damn those gun controllers! :)

[gatlingforme]

11. LOL

[MrBenchley]

12. "why havn't the terrorists taken advantage of this fact"

Good thing our trigger happy chums never let FACTS get in the way...

"A training camp linked to Islamic militants has been operating in Alabama, and European law enforcement officials believe Muslim extremists were using it to prepare for a holy war.
British authorities also thought that militants from overseas were training in the United States to take advantage of America's gun laws, sources told ABCNEWS. The looming question for law enforcement is whether there is a connection between the camp and the al Qaeda terror network.
An investigation by Britain's Scotland Yard led to the discovery of the camp in Marion, Ala. The facility is called "Ground Zero USA."
Bullet-riddled police cars and a school bus with mannequin targets are scattered around the property. Inside a huge shed is an equally macabre scene — shot-up mannequins, male and female, in domestic settings, some with red, blood-like stains on them. "

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/WNT_alabama_camp020725.html

"AGS spokesman Matt Bennett said in a statement: “With known terrorists like Ali Boumelhem, Muhammad Asrar and Conor Claxton shopping at gun shows, Congress should heed the clear warning signs get behind this bipartisan, moderate measure to close this dangerous loophole in our gun laws. As Senator McCain has said, this bill is a common-sense step we can take to help shore up our homeland security.” "

http://ww2.americansforgunsafety.com/press_release.asp?id=120&page=3

And let's not forget domestic terrorism, which centers around the gun show circuit.

[gatlingforme]

16. Interesting you think peoples opinions should be taken as FACTS

The alabama article stated that the Europeans thought this camp was due in part because of the US lax gun laws and it also stated the owners of that property were British. I do not see any facts in your article just a bunch of speculation. (On the Brits part).

Your second article is even funnier. Please state where the US has captured "domestic terrorists" using guns directly obtained from gun shows. LOL, You are hilarious. Your links amount to a bunch of hogwash speculation and BS assertations that you consider facts.

[MrBenchley]

22. Yours certainly shouldn't be taken as anything but worthless spin...

"I do not see any facts in your article"
Yeah, Sgt. Schultz got nothing on you....

"Please state where the US has captured "domestic terrorists" using guns directly obtained from gun shows. "
Happy to...if you'd have known how to use Google, you could have done so yourself...

"As terrorist organizations are wont, Hezbollah slowly but surely spread its reach into other countries, sending operatives to the United States and elsewhere. One such Hezbollah spy was named Ali Boumelhem. After moving to Michigan, Boumelhem went to U.S. gun shows and illegally bought weapons for shipment overseas (he was a naturalized U.S. citizen, but had a felony conviction which made it illegal for him to buy weapons)."

http://www.rotten.com/library/history/terrorist-organizations/hezbollah/

"On September 10, 2001, a jury in federal court in Detroit convicted Ali Boumelhem, a known member of the terrorist group Hezbollah (a Lebanese organization that has attacked the US military in Lebanon and Israeli military and civilians in the border area), on seven counts of weapons charges and conspiracy to ship weapons and ammunition to Lebanon.   Ali Boumelhem was arrested in November 2000, along with his brother Mohamed, after a nine-month investigation by the FBI's joint counter-terrorism unit.
The arrest came after the FBI searched an auto parts cargo container on a ship bound for Lebanon. They found shotguns, ammunition, flash suppressors, assault weapons parts, and a police scanner hidden in a car door.
 Boumelhem was arrested just before leaving on a trip to Lebanon (he had a one-way ticket to Beirut). He is, according to the FBI, a leader in the militant Amal militia.   The FBI has a videotape apparently showing Ali Boumelhem firing automatic weapons in Lebanon and acknowledging that he is a member of Hezbollah.
Many of the guns and parts going to Hezbollah apparently came from gun shows. "

http://www.campaignadvantage.com/services/websites/archive/ags/terrorism1.html

[gatlingforme]

31. It figures you give a link from Rotten.com hmmm also you forgot

to mention this in your next link from www.campaignadvantage.com

Many of the guns and parts going to Hezbollah apparently came from gun shows. According to the Middle East Intelligence Bulletin, the shipment intercepted in November was part of a pattern–Boumelhem "traveled frequently to gun shows to buy arms and then hid them in cargo crates bound for Lebanon." Moreover, an FBI informant previously had seen Boumelhem in Beirut unloading shipments of weapons and explosives.6

Nice try but your links are worthless amd don't prove much.

[MrBenchley]

34. So in other words, he bought them at gun shows, just as I said....

"your links are worthless amd don't prove much"
They sure show how dishonest and desperate some trigger happy folks are....

[gatlingforme]

35. Well when you quote the Middle East Intelligence Bulliten.... yeah.

[MrBenchley]

37. So fucking what?

Did he buy them at gun shows, just as I said? YES.

Did your claim turn out to be horseshit? YES.

[gatlingforme]

41. Blather is not my FORTe----ayyyy. You won.

[MrBenchley]

43. I disagree...if you have a point beyond aimless blather

it's totally invisible.

[gatlingforme]

45. I said you won. Why don't you talk about my dog again?

[MrSandman]

33. Let's get strong on Terror...

Hell with Civil Liberties.

Ain't it neat the way that Bush and the Repubs paints anti Civil Liberty agenda...not just guns...as evidence of superiority over Kerry/Democrats in the War on Terror.



:puke:

[MrBenchley]

40. Who the hell can even try to pretend

putting assault weapons on the market or letting fuckwits buy guns at gun shows without background checks is a civil liberty?

"Ain't it neat the way that Bush and the Repubs paints anti Civil Liberty agenda...not just guns...as evidence of superiority over Kerry/Democrats in the War on Terror."
Gee, guess that must be on Bizarro World. Here the Republicans are posting that disgraceful Swift Boat crap...and the gun lobby is doing all it can to push that story to their ignorant disciples.

[goju]

5. Its obvious to anyone who is paying attention

that candidates are running from gun control this election. I cant think of a better example than Kerry talking more about his hunting experiences than he is talking about gun control.

[MrBenchley]

7. THAT explains the howls of rage

about the mentions of gun control from our trigger happy chums.

[NorthernSpy]

10. God, Guns, and Gits

Lord but I hate the DINOs! They're a bunch of anti-working class opportunists, and they've done everything in their power to destroy what remains of the legacy of the New Deal. Heaven knows I'm pro-gun, but I find the prospect of whatever weak-tea 'support' the DLC has in mind less than appetizing. Those people will sell out anybody for political gain. They're the reason the Left bolted and went Nader back in 2000. We make alliance with them at our peril.


Mary

[MrBenchley]

13. Hilariously

this is the SIXTH time by my count that one of our trigger-happy darlings has posted something about this DLC study WITHOUT actually taking the time to READ it through...

Of course, if they had, they would see that it SAYS:

--90% of Americans want to close the gun show loophole
--86% want increased penalties for gun trafficking
--79% want background checks for ALL firearm transactions
--77% want an assault weapons ban....
--67% want ALL firearms registered

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=29642

[gatlingforme]

14. Are you saying that this article was posted "6" times or that the study

the article refers to at one point has been posted 6 times. And I guess your point is what? Just because the author has been referred to more than once has no bearing on the point of my discussion. It's an article that referred to a study (to make a point). The article itself I do not think has been posted 6 times. Could you show me this article being posted 6 times

[MrBenchley]

15. Jeepers, if only I'd included a link

someone could click on and find out the answers to all those things...oh, wait!

[gatlingforme]

18. I must be real blind not to see the article I posted here in your

links to never never land where it has been posted 6 times.

[MrBenchley]

19. It's your misfortune and none of my own....

MrBenchley 13: "this is the SIXTH time by my count that one of our trigger-happy darlings has posted something about this DLC study"

"gatlingforme 14. Are you saying that this article was posted "6" times or that the study
the article refers to at one point has been posted 6 times."

[gatlingforme]

20. It's called trying to understand your point, that is my misfortune,

because I still do not get your point. Will you be up-in-arms if the 9/11 commission report is referred to more than once> ?

[MrBenchley]

21. Well, you asked a question and now you have the goddamn answer....

[gatlingforme]

23. Thanks, I feel so warm and fuzzy now.

[MrBenchley]

24. Any time...

Be sure to keep on asking silly questions whose answers are obvious and then erupting in rage when you get the answer AGAIN...

[gatlingforme]

29. Nice try.

[MrBenchley]

32. Thanks...

Damned if I know what asking visibly silly questions and erupting in rage when you get the obvious answer does for you, but it sure gives me a laugh.

[gatlingforme]

38. LOL, you give me a laugh all the time. Your obvious answers are

not obvious to me. What is your point is a common question following most of your posts.

[MrBenchley]

42. Well, I'm laughing pretty hard myself....

at what sort of towering intellect that can claim THIS isn't obvious...

MrBenchley 13: "this is the SIXTH time by my count that one of our trigger-happy darlings has posted something about this DLC study"
"gatlingforme 14. Are you saying that this article was posted "6" times or that the study
the article refers to at one point has been posted 6 times."

[enfield collector]

27. source for those questionable figures please?

[MrBenchley]

28. Geeze, if only there was a link in that post--Oh, wait!

And they're not "questionable figures"...."questionable figures" is when somebody tries to pretend anybody but the lunatic fringe thinks assault weapons back on the market is a good idea....

[Vladimir]

30. Just to make this extra easy...

http://keepandbeararms.com/downloads/dlc-ags.pdf

[MrBenchley]

36. It sure has handed me many a laugh...

to see our "pro gun democrats" post this study again and again to support their worthless creed...and then start bitching and moaning about how "questionable" it is because they didn't read it in full.

[Vladimir]

39. The results indicate to me

a massive PR failure by the DLC, seeing as 80+% of gun owners support the democratic platform and you 55+% of the voters think the Democratic party shows no respect to lawful gun owners...

[MrBenchley]

44. You'll get no argument from me...

I think the DLC (a conservative offshoot of the party) has done a piss poor job.

Harry Truman once said about folks like them, "Give people a chocie between a Republican and a Democrat pretending to be a Republican, and they'll vote Republican every time."

[goju]

25. Where are the gun control headlines?

Im just not seeing them. I wonder if our politicians ARE being pragmatic but some of our resident gun controllers are just unwilling or unable to see it? Any passerby through the gungeon might get the idea that Dems are beating the gun control drum with unwavering support by their constituency, is that the case?

Can anyone remember off hand the last time we heard Kerry talk about gun control? Conversely, can you remember the last time you saw him with a gun in his hand, hunting or trap shooting?

Cant figure this one out. From all the quality sources of gun control information I see down here, I would think gun control is next to health care on the agenda. Hmmmm

[MrBenchley]

26. Too too funny....

"I wonder if our politicians ARE being pragmatic but some of our resident gun controllers are just unwilling or unable to see it?"
Is that what you wonder?

Myself, I wonder if the only people pretending that gun control isn't in the party platform aren't the sort of fuckwits who hope nobody notices the dishonest smears the gun lobby is passing along.

But then I also remember that more than a third of our "pro gun democrats" admitted not so long ago that they weren't going to vote for John Kerry.

"Any passerby through the gungeon might get the idea that Dems are beating the gun control drum with unwavering support by their constituency, is that the case?"
Sure seems to be. Of course, who but the dreary right wing shitheels who support klaverns like the NRA or GOA think the major issue in this election is that John Kerry is going to kick down the door and take away their penis, er gun?

Meanwhile, it must make our "pro gun democrats" mighty proud that their banner is being waved so enthusiastically by that well known progressive liberal...Alan Keyes (snicker).

[gatlingforme]

46. Good point, and I think some of the politicians are being pragmatic

which is fine by me. I think a politician has to be pragmatic at times. I have done it a few times with my teeth clenched.

[MrBenchley]

47. Funny...that pragmatism doesn't keep the gun lobby from attacking them

Doesn't keep the ditto monkeys on gun owner forums from doing so, either. But hey, who doesn't know that those folks are right wing pieces of shit?