Hamas shows it is willing to talk

[bemildred]

Abraham Rabinovich, Jerusalem
February 14, 2006

HAMAS, the Islamic militant group committed to Israel's destruction, has offered to end its armed resistance if the Jewish state abandons Palestinian territory and restores basic rights for Palestinians.

While Israel will reject the proposal, the remarks by Hamas's political leader, Khaled Mashaal, ahead of a planned visit by a delegation to Moscow suggest Hamas may be ready to negotiate with Israel.

Demands for restoration of Palestinian rights inevitably include the right of Palestinian refugees to return to land that is now part of Israel.

This demand is rejected out of hand by Israel as the return of millions of Palestinians would quickly lead to an Arab majority and the end of the Jewish state. Israel is also unlikely to agree to a return to the borders that applied before the Six Day War in 1967.

The Australian

[bemildred]

1. Hamas will end armed struggle if Israel quits territories - leader

MOSCOW (AFX) - Hamas will end its armed struggle against Israel if the Jewish state withdraws from all occupied Palestinian territories, its leader told Russian daily Nezavisimaya Gazeta in an interview.

'If Israel recognizes our rights and pledges to withdraw from all occupied lands, Hamas, and the Palestinian people together with it, will decide to halt armed resistance,' the radical Islamist group's supremo Khaled Meshaal said.

In earler statements Meshal had only said that Hamas could agree to a 'long-term truce' with Israel if it were willing to return to the 1967 borders and recognise the rights of Palestinians to self-determination.

However, Meshal added, in his latest comments, that Hamas did not feel bound by the international Middle-East roadmap for peace since, in his view, no one else was abiding by it.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2006/02/12/afx2519867.html

[Igel]

2. One wonders.

Link (it's in Russian):http://www.ng.ru/politics/2006-02-13/1_hamas.html
The relevant bit, in full (my translation):

"According to statements from official representatives in Moscow, the Russian side will try to convince HAMAS to adopt a more moderate position vis-a-vis Israel, to acknowlege its right to exist and to reject armed struggle. Is your movement ready for this?

"Israel is an enemy country, which has been carrying out a policy of agression and occupying our land (country?). Settlers seize our territory, cutting the West Bank of the Jordan from the Gaza Strip. Israel's actions create many problems for Palestinians. Many murders and deceptions are chargeable to Israel's account, among them the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. No fewer than 9000 Palestinians are under total occupation. Israel completely ignores our rights. There are no indications at this point that the Israelis intend to cease their war against our people. But if Israel recognizes our rights and will take upon itself the responsibility of leaving all occupied land, then HAMAS, and together with HAMAS the Palestinian people, will make a decision (or "adopt a resolution") concerning the cessation of armed resistance."

I only note that I'm not convinced Mashaal actually answered the question. IMHO, the final phrase in Russian suggests dropping the armed struggle, but doesn't actually entail it--it's a case of what we're likely to infer, not what's actually stated; I'd want to check with a native speaker on how accurately the Forbes translation conveys the meaning. I'd say Mashaal's Arabic's probably less ambiguous, assuming he didn't say it in Russian, but since I don't know enough Arabic ...

Take that with Lenta's reporting (largely from Interfax):
http://www.lenta.ru/news/2006/02/13/nogun/ In the event of a settlement, Russia will provide armed helicopters and on the order of 50 armored personnel carriers;

http://www.lenta.ru/news/2006/02/13/hamas2/ Hamas leader Mashal (Mashan ... sic) is also trying to round up support among OIC countries, and Turkey and Iran; first stop, Khartoum, where he had "fruitful" discussions. Birds of a feather?

And the Russia press, derivative from the Jerusalem Post, has seized on a Russian-language document produced in Israel, http://www.intelligence.org.il/ru/ru_n/pdf/hamas_moscow_r.pdf, which purports to lay out Hamas/Chechen rebel links in rather ... um ... sensationalist terms. I don't know squat about http://www.intelligence.org.il, but such a report is exactly what could tarnish Hamas' imagine in Russia. Kill Jews ... not big problem, given even slight justification; but in Chechen ... that causes conflict within the ranks of the least Jew-hostile and most must-keep-Chechnya-in-Russia part of Russian society. But since it's an Israeli organization making the charge, it's unlikely to be a big deal.

[bemildred]

3. Indeed, one does.

However, to the extent that talking is an alternative to killing, it seems like it could be a good thing. That said, there is no reason to think that these fellow are not as big a bunch of liars as most politicians.

[pelsar]

4. wait and see....

at this point i dont think hamas knows what its doing........perhaps throwing out lines, looking for money, etc and seeing the reactions?...seeing whos with them and whos not?.

they just went from the wild kid on the block to being a world player....a big change.

[Igel]

7. I agree.

Talking is always a good thing.

Listening's also a good thing.

I don't trust Hamas, sitting from my little perch in Houston. I don't think I trust Putin, either. But talking certainly doesn't hurt.

[bemildred]

8. I "trust" them to pursue their own power and interest. nt

[Tom Joad]

5. Given that the Israeli regime has not held real talks for years, I doubt

Hamas will get to talk to anyone.

"But since 2001, it has also refused to negotiate substantive political issues related to the removal of Israeli settlements, establishment of a Palestinian state and its borders with Yasser Arafat or Abbas."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x116027

[Wordie]

6. I tend to agree with you...

...but it appears that Hamas is trying to do is to recast the debate in terms of Israeli actions (or lack of actions to be more accurate). And that seems to make a lot of sense in its own right. We'll have to wait and see if anyone else will see it that way, and/or if the attempt to reframe the debate will be at all successful.

If they are able to draw greater attention to the Israeli half of the equation that would be a big step forward, whether or not Israel is willing to talk at this time.

[pelsar]

9. perhaps...

it reasonable to wait and see if hamas goes the way of fanatical iran and decides to stone women who adultress, hang gays and place their women in sacks..not to mention if they'll be sticking to their goal of wiping out israel......

i would think if thats where there going, there wouldnt be a whole lot to talk about....unless one is into or accepts facist theorcractic states as a reasonable method of government.

[IndianaGreen]

10. Hitler was willing to talk in Munich...

provided he got what he wanted.

When Hamas speaks of Palestinian lands, they are echoing what Hitler said about the "German corridor" in Poland, and the "German minority" in Czechoslovakia.

Am I saying that Hamas and Hitler shared common goals? No, not at all! What I am saying is that we have heard this bullshit before, and somehow when Hamas speaks I get a tremendous sense of deja vu.