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ECH1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 03:27 PM
Original message
Abbas: May Dissolve Hamas Government
Edited on Fri Oct-27-06 03:28 PM by ECH1969
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said he will dissolve the Hamas-led government within two weeks if the Islamic militant group doesn't agree to form a governing coalition with his Fatah Party, Palestinian officials said Friday.

Abbas told the European Union's top diplomat that he would replace the Cabinet with an apolitical panel of professionals, the officials said.
Solana, in the region trying to breathe new life into peace efforts, urged Palestinian leaders to move urgently to form a so-called national unity government and to ease the deepening plight of the Palestinian people.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2611725
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think the people who are a problem for him are part of the
government now, are they?
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Not the worst ones.
The worst ones are trying to undercut Hamas' political leadership as well, fearing cooperation with Abbas is the first step towards surrender.

Yeah, it's bad over there. Awful. Excruciating. But dissolving governments, even weak, money-starved ones, is dangerous business.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 03:38 PM
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. extreme conditions produce extremists
just like Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 03:34 PM
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hamas doesn't have quite as much power as you portray.
Having said that, I don't think Abbas has the power to deal with Hamas even so. Or, for that matter, the stomach. But we'll see.
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Boston Critic Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Perhaps Abbas can be the leader the Palestinians need
I'm skeptical, but if Abbas is best positioned to be the leader who can break the Palestinians cycle of hate and terror and forge a peaceful resolution with Israel, more power to him.

It's become clear that if the kleptocracy under Arafat was a failure, Hamas was *not* the solution.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. um, the Palestinian people rejected Abbas and voted for Hamas
And who is going to break the Israeli cycle of hate and terror?
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Boston Critic Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Not necessary...
... since outside of the hatemongering fantasies of the Israel bashers, there isn't any "Israeli cycle of hate and terror."

But thanks for playing.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. it's clear who is indulging in fantasies
Edited on Fri Oct-27-06 09:12 PM by Ms. Clio
have fun while they last. Not terribly surprising, coming from someone who apparently admires the FOX network. :eyes:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 12:31 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 01:53 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:21 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 05:08 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:20 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:43 PM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:36 AM
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Here's a whole bunch of links & info about Irgun.
Since you don't seem to be aware of the *actual* history, or seem to be belittling the *actual*
terrorism of the pre-State militias, I hope all this info is informative;

Details of the terrorism;

'NOVEMBER 7, 2003
Hijacking History
The Israeli Right Sets Out To Magnify Its Role in History and the Creation of the Jewish State

>snip

Golan hagiographically reviews the careers of such men as Ze'ev Jabotinsky, the founder of the Revisionist stream of Zionism, and Avraham Stern, the founder of the Lehi, and focuses on the particular stories of individual fighters/terrorists, such as Eliahu Hakim and Eliahu Bet Zuri, who assassinated British Minister Resident in the Middle East Lord Moyne in November 1944, not knowing — like Golan himself — that Moyne was by this stage a supporter of a Jewish state. The murder greatly angered Moyne's close friend, Prime Minister Winston Churchill and may thus have contributed significantly to the deferment of Jewish statehood.

One may or may not view the Irgun and Lehi policy of attacks on British Mandate personnel from 1944 through 1948 as a legitimate means of evicting a foreign occupier. But Golan completely fails to describe the dark side of the Irgun's (and, to a lesser degree, Lehi's) activities vis-à-vis the Arabs — the mass indiscriminate murder of civilians in retaliation for Arab attacks on Jews during the 1936-39 Arab Revolt and the start of the 1948 war. These bombings preceded, and resemble nothing so much as, the contemporary Hamas-Islamic Jihad-Tanzim bombings of Israel's buses and markets (which the Arabs contend are in reprisal for Israel's oppressive occupation and specific attacks on Arabs by Israeli troops). In one obtuse, deliberately obfuscating reference to the Irgun bombings in 1937 through 1938, Golan writes of the "planned retaliatory bombings in areas used as rendezvous by the Arab gangs." Later, he briefly mentions the repeated Irgun bombing of the Haifa market (which he claims, without offering any proof, deterred further Arab attacks on Jews in Haifa), without giving the reader any sense of the mayhem and fatalities caused, as he does when referring to Arab attacks on Jews. (Indeed, Golan devotes three whole pages to describing in great detail the British torture of one Irgun operative, Benjamin Zeroni, the man who planned the Haifa market bombings.) He doesn't tell his readers that on July 6, 1938, an Irgun bomb, placed inside milk canisters in that market, killed 21 shoppers and wounded 52; or that three weeks later, on July 25, another bomb, in a pickled cucumber can, killed 39 shoppers and wounded at least 70 at the same site. Nor does he tell us that the exiled Jabotinsky, ostensibly in charge of the Irgun, objected to these operations. The Lehi's robbing of banks, including Jewish-owned banks, in the early 1940s is described by Golan as "relieving" these institutions of their funds.

But, clearly, attempting to whitewash the Irgun and Lehi weighed on Golan's mind. At one point, Golan states:

A cursory glance at the above list of almost two dozen acts of sabotage and mayhem perpetrated by the Lehi reveals not one directed at women, seniors riding buses, innocent people walking to work or children playing in schoolyards.... To specifically target women and children would have been unimaginable for any of the Hebrew forces.

Golan seems to be arguing against comparing the Irgun and Lehi with contemporary Palestinian terrorists. But his argument won't fly. I see no difference between planting bombs in Arab markets (1937-38) designed to kill as many shoppers as possible and planting bombs on Jewish buses (2000-03) designed to kill as many passengers as possible. Killing as many civilians as possible is, in both cases, the name of the game.


Here's a link to the archives of the Palestine Post, that provides contemporary details of the
incidents mentioned;
http://jic.tau.ac.il/moreshet/palestineEn.html


Details of how the pre-State militias are celebrated by the political/military leadership, today;

Interview with a guide at the Lehi museum, details of the museum;

The Baker's Daughter

>snip

Today, Ahuva, a retired Jewish studies teacher, volunteers for the Committee for the Lehi Heritage. Its museum is located in the building of Stern's final hideout in Tel Aviv's Florentine neighborhood.

As a Ministry of Defense museum, soldiers guide visitors throughout the two floor structure with permanent exhibitions about Stern's life and death, the struggle against the British, the split from Etzel, and a clandestine weapons production shop.

Volunteers who were former Lehi members, provide firsthand accounts of their experiences. The Committee for the Lehi Heritage organizes lectures and workshops for students, as well study days for teachers, historians and researchers. A publishing house publishes members' memoirs. Annual events include memorials to members and awards are presented to young people writing about the Lehi. A Hebrew Internet site was recently set up.


"There is an increased interest in Lehi's legacy and Avraham Stern," observes Ahuva. "Many high school and university students do research at the museum. The 60thanniversary of Stern's assassination was commemorated at the Knesset in February, and every year more and more people visit his gravesite in Tel Aviv."

The dream of every Lehi member was to participate in a military operation. "Although I wasn't privileged to do this, I realized that whatever I did was as important, freeing others to the task," reflects Ahuva.


http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1183

Israeli PMs giving medals to 'terrorists', & commemorating 'acts of terrorism';

The Etzel Ribbon award ceremony

Official recognition of the contribution of the Etzel underground organization in the struggle for an independent state of Israel came only after former Etzel leader Menahem Begin became prime minister of Israel in 1977. Presentation of the ribbon started in 1979. Here follow some pictures of the April 4, 1979 ceremony at the Western Wall, Jerusalem.


http://www.yairmalachi.org/MedalsOfIsrael/MODServiceRibbons/EtzelRibbon.htm


British anger at terror celebration
By Ned Parker and Stephen Farrell
The commemoration of Israeli bombings that killing 92 people has caused offence

July 20, 2006

AS ISRAEL wages war against Hezbollah “terrorists” in Lebanon, Britain has protested about the celebration by right-wing Israelis of a Jewish “act of terrorism” against British rule 60 years ago this week.

The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine.

They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish resistance fighters involved in the attack.

Simon McDonald, the British Ambassador in Tel Aviv, and John Jenkins, the Consul-General in Jerusalem, have written to the municipality, stating: “We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated.”

In particular they demanded the removal of the plaque that pays tribute to the Irgun, the Jewish resistance branch headed by Menachem Begin, the future Prime Minister, which carried out the attack on July 22, 1946.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2277717.html





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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Deleted message
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Englander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I got as far as 'anti-Zionist'.
And stopped reading after that. I will say this; any attempts at justifying terrorism, & any
attempts at rewriting history, strike me as being particularly repugnant practices, & as something
that shouldn't be supported by anyone who has a clue, & gives a damn, wouldn't you agree?


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Boston Critic Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yes, and so is sticking your fingers in your ears when...
...you don't like what you're being told.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. so what happened to those cites to "academic journals"?
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 11:14 AM by Ms. Clio
feel free to PM me with them.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. self-delete
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 11:14 PM by Ms. Clio
wrong place
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. and now, it's just crickets
gosh, I wonder why?
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Boston Critic Donating Member (606 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 06:34 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Heavy handed moderation
When substantive posts from one side of the discussion are removed it's obviously not a fair fight, particular when the propagandistic replies remain.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. perhaps, but not sure what it has to do with those cites to academic journals
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 09:14 AM by Ms. Clio
no reason for a mod to remove those. Just need journal title, volume, issue, year.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. I don't see any difference, either
"I see no difference between planting bombs in Arab markets (1937-38) designed to kill as many shoppers as possible and planting bombs on Jewish buses (2000-03) designed to kill as many passengers as possible. Killing as many civilians as possible is, in both cases, the name of the game."

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wellst0nev0ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-27-06 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. So Much For Purple Fingers
So he really wants a civil war now?
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