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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 01:53 AM
Original message
Egyptian MP: Nothing will work with Israel except nuclear bomb
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/824984.html

sraeli excavations near the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem sparked angry reactions on Monday from Egyptian parliament members, including one who said only a nuclear bomb could stop Israel.

The excavations, which aim to salvage artefacts before construction of a pedestrian bridge leading to the complex also sacred to Jews, have angered many Muslims who fear the work will harm the foundations of al-Aqsa mosque. Israel says the holy places will not be harmed.

"That cursed Israel is trying to destroy al-Aqsa mosque," Mohammed el-Katatny of President Hosni Mubarak's National Democratic Party (NDP) told a heated parliament session held to discuss the Israeli digging.

Nothing will work with Israel except for a nuclear bomb that wipes it out of existence," he said.

more

This is Egypt now mubarek is getting pressure from Egyptian congress
This Mosque must be pretty important and I have never seen such anger from Egypt before
scary times
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like some non-leadership coming out of Egypt.
Worshipping a God that can be destroyed with a bulldozer there guys?
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Evidentally this Mosque is pretty important
its significant on the eve of the Iran war coming closer and closer

that the Mosque would start to get the Fundamentalists in a frenzy

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. it is where Mohammad assended to heaven
it was the most holiest site in islam now the 3nd. this is one thing that could unite islam across the middle east. israel is playing with fire.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. In Jerusalem? That AIN'T what they're worried about.
They're worried the Israelis will come across the temples that are UNDER the mosque. Islam is a pretty late bloomer for a major religion. To gain legitimacy it did what the Christians did, put its sacred sites on top of already sacred sites. Names change. Architecture changes. Religion changes. But the sacred site is still visited.

They base their claim to Jerusalem on that mosque, don't they? It won't help to have a bunch of archaeologists publish that the mosque is on top of a church which is on top of a synagogue which is on top of a temple to Astarte. Or Zeus. Or Hera. Or......
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Muslim, Christian and Jewish fundamentalists all would be in a frenzy --
Edited on Tue Feb-13-07 03:28 AM by Emit
Check out my post below (#17) of an article written by Michael Ledeen on the subject.

According to some, it is to be the site of the third and final Temple to be rebuilt with the coming of the Messiah.

I usually do not quote WorldNutDaily, but in this case, it seems appropriate to post their perspective on the subject:

The Temple Mount is the holiest site in Judaism. For Muslims, it is Islam's third holiest site.

The First Jewish Temple was built by King Solomon in the 10th century B.C. It was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 B.C. The Second Temple was rebuilt in 515 B.C. after Jerusalem was freed from Babylonian captivity. That temple was destroyed by the Roman Empire in A.D. 70. Each temple stood for a period of about four centuries.

The Jewish Temple was the center of religious Jewish worship. It housed the Holy of Holies, which contained the Ark of the Covenant and was said to be the area upon which God's "presence" dwelt. The Al Aqsa Mosque now sits on the site.

The temple served as the primary location for the offering of sacrifices and was the main gathering place in Israel during Jewish holidays.

The Temple Mount compound has remained a focal point for Jewish services over the millennia. Prayers for a return to Jerusalem have been uttered by Jews since the Second Temple was destroyed, according to Jewish tradition. Jews worldwide pray facing toward the Western Wall, a portion of an outer courtyard of the Temple left intact.



http://www.templemount.org/recent.html
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Snidely mentioning "killing by bulldozers"
Edited on Tue Feb-13-07 02:05 AM by ConsAreLiars
in the context of Israel shows a certain degree of ignorance and insensitivity.

(edit typo)
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Oh, and why is that?
what is the connection?
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. You may not have heard, but US supplied, Israeli driven
bulldozers were used to murder a US-born peace worker who put herself in front of an attempt by the Israeli government to destroy the home of yet one more Palestinian. Just one killing, easily overlooked.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Hardly overlooked.
Edited on Tue Feb-13-07 02:48 AM by aquart
That arrogant fool is enshrined in a worshipful play, isn't she? And adored as a martyr worldwide?

Still waiting for one person to ask even one question about the DRIVER of the bulldozer. Much easier to say a faceless monster "the Israeli government" killed the silly chicken-playing fool who gave her life for a HOUSE. This is the same Israeli government that responded to the murder of its citizens by ONLY bulldozing a building. It was a doctor's summer home, wasn't it? But not one question about what was going on in the mind of the driver of that slow-moving vehicle as it inched toward the foreigner who didn't have the sense to move. Not one question about the driver's sex, age, history. Was a family member blown to bits on a bus or in a market? Not one question about the driver from the concerned humanists at DU. Nope. It was "the Israeli government" doing its damndest NOT to kill in retaliation that murdered the witless girl who thought she was so special everything would stop for her.

BTW, why wasn't the owner of the house standing in front of that bulldozer?

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breakaleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. You've called her an arrogant fool. Just one more example of attacking the victim.
Even when Israel is 100% in the wrong. I shouldn't expect any better around here.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Actually, I'm being a dick...
The killing of Rachel Corrie probably affected my thinking subconciously when I posted that, but I was meaning to criticize Egypt for talking about nuclear madness over the moving of dirt and stones with bulldozers.

Can of worms there. There is a room at my school (Also Corrie's; Evergreen college) where pictures of her are up, a little altar of rememberance. The main picture has her dressed up participating in "procession of the species" which is a parade in town were we all dress up as animals. She was a white bird.

I was studying there a few days ago, I ended up thinking on her, how she affected me. She's still an inspiration to me. So I guess I was posting something defensive. Gods don't get killed by bulldozers, neither do people like her...

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that in politics and God, there comes a point where we have to stop worrying about symbols (bodies and buildings) and start worrying about meaning. (lives and true beliefs.)

sorry if this makes no sense. :(


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Porcupine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. The wall of the temple?
The attatchment to that seems to break one of the major statements of the Torah about worshipping "things."

Yeah it's just a rock. So's Half Dome.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. forget the torah
it does`t apply to them
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. and what god may that be?
the god of abraham?
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. To me, fundamentalism of any stripe is based on idolatry.
Worshiping things instead of God. Freaking out about relics, Bibles, buildings are all faces of this same thing.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. Oh my...
Is this the same Egyptian government that the * regime is crowing about winning over to their side in the War of Terror?

Don't forget Poland!
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Porcupine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. The sentiment appears to be spreading......
From the Arab point of view, they have spent entire lifetimes negotiating, cajoling, summiting, and occasionally fighting with Israel. Israel is only consistent in that it finds new horrors to inflict upon arabs and palestinian peoples. The latest being the Wall.

The one emotion that appears to have an effect on Israeli policy is the blustering outrage of the schoolyard bully or the plantation owner caught taking a young slave. "Hey, this is MINE. I EARNED this as a birthright. God GAVE ME THE POWER to take this prize." Voices that promote peace and compromise are buried amid the shouting or sometimes assasinated.

The arab world is waiting for the US defeat in Iraq. They know that once that happens they can chip away at Israel like a prisoner with a rock hammer. Each little chip takes a part of the whole if nobody is there to stop you.

There will be no nukes. There will be no nukes.

Keep repeating that and maybe some god somewhere will listen.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
16. Actually, I've often felt that way.
Nuke the whole damn MidEast and post a sign: They did not work and play well with others.

But then there's that fallout problem. You can kinda tell Egypt does NOT have the bomb.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
17. "The Temple Mount plot: what do Christian and Jewish fundamentalists have in common?"
I find it odd that Michael Ledeen has written on this subject. Here's an article written by Michael Ledeen and his wife, Barbara, discussing Christian and Jewish fundamentalists. In light of your post, thought you might be interested in it. I have read that Ledeen and his wife are/were involved in the Temple Mount movement (I cannot confirm this with a decent source).


A CASUAL OBSERVER might be excused for believing that nearly all of the recent violence in Israel has been part of the usual cycle of Arab-Israeli conflict. The observer would be wrong. Though some of the recent acts ... seem to be the work of extremist Israeli nationalists, much of the destructive intent is fueled by a mixture of nationalist politics, messianic longing, and the search for roots. In fact, some of the current extremism is a direct outgrowth of the ancient forecast of the Apocalypse... The targets of the most spectacular incidents over the past months have been Muslim authorities and the area they control in Jerusalem, but for the most part the people who planned or participated in the attacks are the violent fringe of an informal movement that stretches from the United States to the Middle East, and encompasses millions of evangelical Christians as well as some Israeli Jews. This unlikely coalition rests upon a common belief that the Final Days are upon us. For the Christians, this means that the Second Coming of Christ is imminent; for the Jews, the Messiah is about to arrive. Both believe that the crucial spot for the fulfillment of the Biblical prophecies is the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, because that is where the Temple of Solomon is to be rebuilt. According to the fundamentalist understanding of Christian prophecy, three great events are required for the Second Coming: Israel must be a Jewish nation; Jerusalem must be a Jewish city; and the Temple must be rebuilt. Today only the third condition remains to be met. Though most Jews believe that the building of the Temple will occur after the arrival of the Messiah, a growing number of deeply religious Jews believe that efforts to rebuild the Temple, and other steps for its proper functioning, should be made before the Messianic Age.

~snip~

On March 10, 1983, more than forty Jews suspected of planning to penetrate the Temple Mount were arrested in Jerusalem. ... Their legal fees--amounting to $50,000--were paid by wealthy Christian evangelicals from Texas. Less than a year later, only last January 27, Israeli security forces thwarted an assault on the Mount ... There is good reason to believe that the money for this group, the so-called Lifta Band, also came from Christian sources in America ... the suspects began to be cooperative only after an Israel officer had "scolded them for using a Bible published by a Christian group as their religious source." ... At the Temple Mount the religious passions of the Muslim, Christian, and Jewish religions intersect as at no other on earth. Not only is the Mount the site of Solomon's Temple, it is also where Abraham came to sacrifice his son Isaac; where Jesus taught, and threw the money-changers out of the Temple; from where Mohammed ascended through the seven Heavens into the presence of Allah... Except for a few years during the Crusades, the Temple Mount has been under Muslim control since the conquest of Jerusalem almost fourteen hundred years ago... Political pragmatism, however, is unlikely to withstand the messianic passions that are directed at the Temple Mount... The Israeli courts have generally denied the right of Jews to pray on the Temple Mount, but there are signs of change there, too. ... The driving force behind the Temple Mount movement, however, is the American evangelical community, some 45.5 million strong. The evangelicals met regularly with former Prime minister Menachem Begin over the years, reportedly urging him to rebuild the Temple, and they raced to Washington this spring to endorse the proposal to move the American Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, citing Biblical prophecies of the day in the near future when Jerusalem will become the capital of the world. ... The most visible link between the evangelicals and the drive to rebuild the Temple is found in the Jerusalem Temple Foundation in Los Angeles, the latest of several organizations (and the only such group in the United States) designed to put pressure on the Israeli government to limit the Waqf's control over the Temple Mount. The chairman and executive director of this ecumenical foundation are Terry Risenhoover and Douglas Krieger, two Christian evangelicals who have the means, the energy, and the network of friends necessary to catalyze a mass movement (Risenhoover is a multimillionaire, owner of a company called Alaska Land Leasing that is currently planning searches for oil in Judea and Samaria). ... ... Deloach's senior pastor at the Second Baptist Church in Houston (the switchboard operator answers calls by saying, "The amazing second"), H. Edwin Young, is likely to be the next president of the 13 million-member Southern Baptist Convention, America's largest Protestant body. Both pastors accompany groups to Israel and take them to the Temple Mount and to the Jewish yeshivahs training priests for the Temple. Deloach is candid about his objectives: "We will do whatever is right and politically expedient to make that Temple Mount free for all three religions." ...

~snip~

Some of the members of these committees, yeshivahs, and groups are simply interested in the historical or scientific aspects of the Temple Mount. But many--and their number is growing--are working for a Jewish presence on the Mount, and eventually the rebuilding of the Temple. Some of these people are highly orthodox, and firmly believe that the Messiah will soon arrive. Others are primarily Israeli nationalists, who view Muslim control of the Temple Mount as an insult to the Zionist Dream. But in the end the religious and nationalistic themes are hard to distinguish from each other, and the effect is the same: Waqf control over the Temple Mount is being challenged. ...BY FAR the most dynamic of the challengers is the Israeli section of the Jerusalem Temple Foundation, headed by Stanley Goldfoot, a South African Jew who came to Israel in the '30s and fought in the Stern Gang during the postwar period. A passionate nationalist, a highly skilled rhetorician, and a man of demonstrated activism, Goldfoot believes that the Temple Mount belongs to Israel, and to Israel alone. ... Goldfoot sees the Christians as logical allies, for he believes that "Christian fundamentalists are the real modern-day Zionists"; in Goldfoot's view, it is the christians above all who realize that "we are coming to a crucial period in earth's history, and they want to help fulfill prophecy and thus hasten the coming of the Messiah." ...It is thus not so surprising that those who planned to sabotage the Temple Mount in January carried Christian versions of the Old Testament, for the Temple Mount movement is based on a messianic vision that, at least in its first stages, is common to both Jewish and Christian religions. To be sure, there is a basic disagreement, but it is one that will only be resolved in the Final Days. As one Jewish leader put it to us last summer in Jerusalem, "They believe that once the Temple is built, Jesus will come again. We expect the Messiah to come for the first time. Let's build the Temple, and see what he looks like."

~snip~

Historically, messianic movements tend to be strongest in periods of intense internal turmoil and external threat. Both of these elements are present in contemporary Israel, and the Israelis' anxieties are largely shared by the American "Christian Zionists." All we know about the Temple Mount suggests that it will grow in interest and become a source of conflict, with international consequences that are hard to predict. Up until the arrests of the twenty-five extremists, the Israeli government either ignored the Temple Mount movement or attempted to co-opt it, but neither approach was successful. It remains to be seen whether the arrests will dampen the ardor of the zealots. With the redemption of mankind and the fulfillment of prophecy at stake, arrests are transformed into temporary setbacks, extremism becomes righteous action, and political considerations pale into such insignificance that even conservative Christians and radical Jewish nationalists can become allies.



Source Citation: Ledeen, Michael, and Barbara Ledeen. "The Temple Mount plot: what do Christian and Jewish fundamentalists have in common?" The New Republic 190 (June 18, 1984): 20(4). It is from Lexis-Nexis so I have no link.

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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
19. why post this again?
theres currently a thread going on this, interestingly enough with the exact same title as yours.
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Lurking Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I'm guessing it got kicked down here from elsewhere.
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dottym Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-13-07 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. they talk about a nuclear bomb like it's
a firecracker. don't they realize the consequences?
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