An army run like a jungle

[bemildred]

"I don't see how the army is going to get me the victory I need," Prime Minister Ehud Olmert sighed at a nighttime discussion on the 11th day of the war in Lebanon. Ten days later, then-defense minister Amir Peretz made a similar complaint to the senior officers. "It's infuriating - we're circling (the village of) Aita al-Shaab for the third time already."

The Winograd Committee's final report is full of quotes like this. The committee shares the politicians' amazement as it describes the many failures it found in the army's functioning before and during the war. It identifies a "harsh and gloomy picture" in the Israel Defense Forces. The army, particularly the ground forces, "for the most part did not succeed in fulfilling their principal missions." The IDF thus contributed to the feeling of "disappointment and missed opportunities among the public."

During the war it was clear the army was not delivering the goods the political leaders expected. But there was no room for Olmert and Peretz to be surprised. During their visit to the General Staff forum on July 11, 2006, on the eve of the kidnapping of the two soldiers, Major General Yishai Bar warned them that "the IDF is a mediocre army. There are still small islands of excellence left, but these islands are surrounded by a large sea of mediocrity." The two did not react directly. (And then-chief of staff Dan Halutz reassured them that "the missions will be carried out extremely well.") The final report gives the politicians exaggerated and unjustified exemption from responsibility - the politicians who decided to embark on the war and made the important decisions during it. But this should not exempt the army from the radical reforms it needs to undertake in the wake of the findings.

Particularly in light of Olmert/Peretz's blatant inexperience on security matters, the IDF should have functioned better during the campaign. "We disappointed him," admitted three General Staff generals this week when asked about the army's relationship with the prime minister during the war. "A large part of the blame is ours."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/950203.html

[subsuelo]

1. Could this explain the indiscriminate killings of civilians?

I've been wondering about the Israeli leadership's reasoning for that.

Wondered if there was a kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out strategy.

Also considered they were just crazed with hatred.

But now it seems they were just infuriated with themselves and took it out on the Lebanese people.

[Shaktimaan]

2. wow. Just... wow.

indiscriminate killings of civilians?

kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out strategy?

crazed with hatred?

just infuriated with themselves and took it out on the Lebanese people?
(my personal favorite)

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that you don't know all that much about "war" in general. Stuff like historical percentages of collateral damage, how often bombing mistakes happen in modern warfare, common actions taken to limit civilian casualties, how other countries have responded in the past to similar rocket attacks against themselves, stuff like that. (I mean, you certainly don't seem to know diddly about Israeli culture yet have no problem commenting on it extensively; going so far as to delve into their collective subconscious to ascertain reasons for their presumed actions.)

I mean, really... Also considered they were just crazed with hatred.
Just, wow.

How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

[subsuelo]

3. I see

So your explanation of the indiscriminate killings of Lebanese civilians is "collateral damage" and "bombing mistakes".

Right. All just mistakes and ugly by-products of war right? Because Israel has the most moral army in the world right; an army that would never kill any civilian on purpose ...
(if you believe that I do have a lovely bridge to sell)

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[subsuelo]

5. Please drop the excuses for Israeli war crimes

The "Hibzollah hiding amongst civilians" bit just doesn't wash.

It's plainly obvious to anyone paying attention that Israel indiscriminately killed civilians, in fact that is the exact wording of Amnesty International's report on the matter. So it's not just me saying it, and there is nothing irrational about stating the realities. In fact, what is clearly irrational is the justifications and excuses for the war crimes and atrocities committed by Israel's military. Please end the excuses and demand accountability instead.

[henank]

7. My post was deleted here too

I'm not sure what the moderators don't like about what I said, but every word is true. I shall repost roughly what I posted before.

Israel never intentionally targets civilians. Why would she do that? What would be the point?

HOWEVER - Hizbollah, Hamas, Fatah and all the rest of the cocktail of terrorist organizations have absolutely no compunction in operating out of civilian areas - using the civilians as shields in fact - knowing that they are in a win-win situation. If they get themselves killed - why, they're martyrs for the cause. And if civilians get killed in the process, why, they too are martyred, plus it makes Israel look bad.

Moreover these same terrorists have no scruples in intentionally targeting Israeli civilians, as can be seen from every single one of their terrorist attacks.

[Lithos]

8. Check your inbox

I had sent you a message about your note.

[bemildred]

6. It was, it is , about fear and intimidation.

Or "deterrence" in IDF lingo. With the intent to compel obedience or docility, to enforce class distinctions. It does not work, but that doesn't seem to matter.

But it isn't something the Israelis invented, it's as old as the hills.