Israel Violating Laws Of War With Gaza Energy Cuts: HRW

[Purveyor]

Israel's move to cut energy supplies to the Gaza Strip violates the laws of war, Human Rights Watch (HRW) said in a report published on Thursday.

Aid groups have warned that the Israeli sanctions are set to tighten on Thursday with a reduction of electricity provided to the impoverished Hamas-run territory.

"Israel's cuts of fuel and electricity to Gaza, set to escalate today, amount to collective punishment of the civilian population, and violate Israel's obligations under the laws of war," the New York-based group said.

Israel began reducing the amount of fuel it supplied to Gaza in late October after declaring the coastal strip a "hostile entity" following its takeover by Hamas, an Islamist movement pledged to the destruction of the Jewish state.

---EOE---

http://www.abc.net.au:80/news/stories/2008/02/07/2157287.htm?section=world

[ladjf]

1. They are like the Bush administration. There is no one to stop their

lawless behavior.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

2. "Israel Violating Laws Of War"

...Routinely and repeatedly for nearly half a century now -- all bankrolled by the U.S. taxpayer.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OkR7sE1sYAQ

[pelsar]

3. pathetic..

let me summarize the reactions here....and from just about every other human rights organization:

the environment is that hamas does shoot from populated areas and that it takes humans and energy to produce the missiles.....

Not only must israel not interfere with the shooting of the kassams and the terrorizing of its citizens but it must help feed the hamasnikim and aid in the production of the kassams

____

i feel really bad that israel doesnt help the gazan society in their efforts to kill and terrorize israelis.....

[Waya]

4. Collective punishment is illegal.....

.and that is what Israel is doing. Hamas is shooting rockets, that means the entire civilian population is supposed to pay the price, right? Get real. International Law....... it's time Israel goes by it....for a change.

[pelsar]

5. just clarifying......

so i understand that your preference is for israel to do nothing about the kassams...and to keep on feeding the hamasnik govt?

that is your preferred option isnt it? at least admit that you prefer that the israelis are on the receiving end of the collective punishment and not the gazans....(options are rather limited here...you get to chose one or the other)

[Waya]

6. ....(options are rather limited here...you get to chose one or the other)

How are the rockets 'collective punishment'? As crass as that sounds, when the rockets hit target (which more often than not, they don't), people may die......but it is limited to a certain, relatively small number. I don't mean to make light of that, even tho it sounds like it, every death, Israeli or Palestinian, is tragic - however, to punish an entire civilian group for the acts of a few is ludicrous and, as I said before, illegal under International Law.

Sorry, but I do not subscribe to the idea that Israel is always right. I do not accept, as so many do, that Israel should be able to do as she pleases, no matter what, as long as they say it's self-defense (which, I'm sorry, 9 out of 10 times, it isn't). I do not accept the idea that because of the holocaust 60-some years ago - Israel has now the right to do what was done to them. It shows how fast the persecuted have become the persecutors, the oppressed the oppressors. My sympathy for Israel has run out.

[LeftishBrit]

7. Whoever said...

that Israel is always right, or can do what it pleases?

Israel should be treated like any other country. It should not be treated as always right or immune to criticism. At the same time, it has the same right to exist as any other country.

'I do not accept the idea that because of the holocaust 60-some years ago - Israel has now the right to do what was done to them.'

(1) Whoever said this either?
(2) Israel, whatever one thinks of some of its tactics, has not been putting Palestinians into gas chambers and systematically exterminating them!!! Overblown and false analogies do not make a positive contribution to debate.
(3) 'Done to them?' To whom? The Holocaust was done to the Europaean Jews, not to Israel, which didn't exist then. The Jews should NEVER be equated with Israel; nor should Israeli Jews be equated with Europaean Jews. Less than half of Israeli Jews are Europaean.

[madeline_con]

15. Using gas chambers is not the only way to achieve genocide.

It can be a slow, systematic process.

Read Herzl, then check the number of Zionist followers in the Israeli govt.

[hack89]

20. Yet the Palestine population is growing?

12,000 Palestinian deaths since 1947 - look at the top of this list to see what real genocide is:

http://tmq2.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/ranking-of-death-tolls-the-66-most-lethal-conflicts-after-1950/

[pelsar]

8. the rockets...

send 10,000 of people every day running to shelters multiple times a day...local economies have collapsed.....pretty hard to work when the sirens sound so often.... Those people are being "punished" collectively for living near gaza. (though i do like the dismissal of them..as if they really dont do anything.....)

i did not mention right or wrong...i mentioned the options. for those who subscribe to the idea that israel should not shoot back due to location of the rocket launchers...and should continue to give electricity to the govt of hamas..

i have no problem if you have no sympathy toward israel...but you can at least say it clearly:

its better for israelis to be on the receiving end of the rockets landing daily for the last 2 years (and the collective result of the rockets) than for israel to do anything about it. And they should continue to help the govt (hamas) that is trying to kill israelis daily.

[Vegasaurus]

9. This is the kind of ridiculous, WRONG analogy

too often made on this forum.

You may disagree with what Israel does, which is fine. Of course, you don't live with the threat of terrorism 24/7 either.

But when you or other posters compare Israel to Nazis, and act as if the treatment of the Palestinians is ANYTHING AT ALL like the way Nazis treated Jews in concentration camps, you are so far off base, it stops all conversation completely. It just makes you, and others who make that comparison, look ignorant.

Israel provides food, fuel, electricity, health care. Jews were starved (literally, not like the Palestinians are being "starved" when they can still go buy motorcycles and big screen televisions), mutilated, tortured and burned to death. Six million of them.

It is time for people to STOP making this analogy. There is NO genocide, Israel is NOT behaving as Nazis, even if you believe they are oppressors.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Yeah, we can only make those sorts of analogies about Palestinians, right?

Y'know, like Palestinians want to commit genocide on Israelis, etc. After all, that's the *even-handed* way....

[Vegasaurus]

14. No one has accused the Palestinians of committing genocide on Israelis

but that is a very common analogy used in the other direction, made all the richer by adding the "just like Nazis" part.

The Palestinians aren't capable of committing genocide on Israel, and we have no idea what they would do if they had the capability. Israel has the capability of doing so on the Palestinians, and has not, so that's why it is time for this harmful analogy to cease.

[Violet_Crumble]

22. So the posts I see saying thePalestinians want to kill all Israelis are a figment of my imagination?

The Palestinians aren't capable of committing genocide on Israel, and we have no idea what they would do if they had the capability.

Strange. That's the exact opposite of what you were saying in a now deleted post...


'Palestinians think Israelis ALL deserve to die. Every single one, and they have spent 60 years trying to kill as many as humanly possible. If they had their way they would kill ALL Israelis/Jews. That's what they say, and their actions prove they are serious.'

[madeline_con]

16. "... you don't live with the threat of terrorism 24/7 either."

I do. I'm an American citizen! I hope my government kills all those mean Islamofascists and the parents who teach their kids to be suicide bombers! :sarcasm:

[Violet_Crumble]

11. What should be done to stop the Qassams?

I'm going to take away all the violations of international law side of things when it comes to the rocket fire and the blockade of Gaza and just focus on what should be done to stop the rocket fire. The way I see it is when it comes to stopping rocket fire, Israel isn't doing anything that's working and just keeps on doing that same stuff and in doing so falling into a trap where the things it does are going to get worse and worse and still not achieve what its aim is, which is to stop the rocket fire...

So what could be done that would effectively minimise or stop rocket attacks? Since I've given you an 'I don't know' answer in the past, I don't mind if you don't have an answer to it either...

[pelsar]

12. I dont have an answer...

in fact, as far as i can tell no one has a definite answer in israel...its obviously a topic that is discussed every day here.

the base line is that the kassams are not being fired because of the recent blockaid, they are being fired for:
1) the occupation
2) westbank raids
or
3) israels existance.....

whatever answer one prefers it means the kassams and possible longer range katushas are not "going away" in the immediate future.

__________

israelis options are infact limited, but what its citizens demands are a response. The idea of the state doing nothing, providing the govt of gaza (hamas has now made it clear that are active in it), the means to produce the rockets is simply not acceptable to its citizens. and it may get worse if they start shooting their longer range ones at the larger cities and the powerplant just outside ashkelon


doing nothing has not reduced them
shooting the shooters can be assumed to have some reduction, with the additional people killed.

stopping electricity, fuel etc, may have little affect, since hamas will probably direct their limited resources to the military wing....at the sametime its ludicrous for israel to supply the govt of gaza with the means to produce their weapons and make life easier for them. They are the responsible entity and as such must understand that there are consequences for their actions.

change occurs when the pressure becomes unbearable....will anything work with hamas?....no one really knows as they are a new entity, in fact i doubt they even know, nor the gazans themselves....

so i dont have an answer.....but at the sametime, doing nothing and letting the citizens play "russian roulette with the kassams" is unacceptable and no govt can do "nothing." in the wake of daily attacks upon its citizens.

[breakaleg]

13. So, you are suggesting that even though the current reations by Israel aren't

working well, they feel they have to respond in some way. Until a better way comes along, this is what they'll do. It seems Hamas is doing a bit of the same thing in a way. The rockets aren't getting them any closer to their state but then nothing else has either. And inaction doesn't seem to be on the table for them either.

I think both sides need to stop the status quo and walk away from these ineffective methods and think outside the box. Unfortunately, one side has to stop first, make the first move. I doubt either will.

[pelsar]

18. one side already did stop.....

one side has to stop first, make the first move

i always amazed how those steps that israel took are totally ignored...mainly because they didnt have any affect what so ever.

i think the narrative is something like this: israel, the stronger one must take the first step to stop the cycle of violence, etc...and when it actually does that, and the jihadnikim dont respond in kind, it means that obviously israel didnt do enough.

well, israel did:

israel left gaza.....more kassams
israel responded with warnings (sonic booms, a few shells).....more kassams
israel responded with limited fire.....more kassams

israel didnt respond.....more kassams

israel closes of much of the borders...more kassams
------

seems there is one consistent theme through out the period when israel left gaza...the kassams and mortars keep coming. Perhaps its hamas turn to try something?

[Englander]

17. Illiteracy is pathetic.

Human Rights Watch said that indiscriminate Palestinian rocket and suicide bomb attacks against Israeli civilians constitute war crimes, but Israel’s attempts to suppress those attacks must not also violate international humanitarian law.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/02/07/isrlpa17994.htm

[pelsar]

19. as is the inability to understand simple concepts....

Israel’s attempts to suppress those attacks must not also violate international humanitarian law.

i doubt you can even reply to the simple question:

what action can israel do that will suppress the kassams and not violate intl law? (I know, this is where the discussion ends....)

[Tom Joad]

21. End the occupation.

[Englander]

23. First things first.

Please show me that you actually understand ihl, by acknowledging that the attempts to "stop the
kassams" by Israel, the cuts of fuel and electricity to Gaza, amount to collective punishment of the
civilian population, and violate Israel’s obligations under the laws of war. If anybody does not
understand that, then any further discussion would seem to me to be pretty pointless. So, can you
point me in the direction of any posts by yourself where an understanding of ihl is present?
Or was this post one of those? Do you acknowledge that the cuts of fuel & electricity to Gaza by
the Israelis amount to collective punishment?