Israeli attacks kill baby in Gaza

[subsuelo]

The Age

Israeli planes have blasted Hamas government buildings in Gaza, killing a baby and wounding more than 30 people.


The Israeli military said it carried out the air strike but had no knowledge of civilians being hit.

Palestinian health officials said a six-month-old baby was killed and about 30 other nearby residents were hurt in the attack.

[subsuelo]

1. I wonder how the killers sleep at night

Killing babies must be a courageous business to be in. I can't help but wonder... Do they go out for beers afterwards? Maybe go home and catch up on American Idol?

[Scurrilous]

57. Young victims of latest attacks on Gaza

<snip>

"Four Palestinian boys have died in an Israeli attack near the town of Jabalya in the Gaza strip. The boys aged between 10 and 15 were playing football. The deaths brings the number of Palestinians killed in Gaza over the past two days to twenty five. According to reports this figure includes five children and an infant, killed either in Israeli air strikes or missile attacks. Most of the victims were suspected militants.

"We are at the height of the battle" is how Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has described the latest raids. He hinted that there were no immediate plans for a ground offensive.

The Israeli attacks are in retaliation for a rocket attack made from inside Gaza on the Israeli town of Sderot. A 47-year old Israeli father of four died when the missile struck a college in the town. The town was hit by more missiles today, following more than 40 yesterday, fired after five Gaza militants were blown up in a van."

http://www.euronews.net/index.php?page=info&article=472448&lng=1

[subsuelo]

60. "The height of battle" [with kids playing football]

Who can't be impressed by the courageousness?

[breakaleg]

2. So, Israel blames Hamas and said civilian deaths were "unintentional". I love how they take no

no responsibility for any of their actions.

[Dick Dastardly]

3. So Hamas launches 40+ rockets indiscriminatly at Israeli civillians killing one and injuring many

and Israel responds and targets the launch sites, militants, rocket factory and Hamas building but unfortunatly civilians are hurt and killed so Israel is the bad one because they should not retaliate or do anything to protect themselves from Hamas rockets fired at civilians. Only Israel is to be condemned regardless of Hamas actions. Is that the jist of what you are saying?

[subsuelo]

4. and now the excuses roll in

[Dick Dastardly]

8. So you agree that Israel should do nothing but let Hamas shoot missles at it?

[subsuelo]

10. So you agree that Hamas should do nothing but let Israel kill its babies?

[Dick Dastardly]

12. Yes, If they didnt fire rockets at civillians

suicide bomb civillians, hide among civilians then Israel would not have to defend itself.by hitting launch sites, rocket factories, terrorist sites and Hamas buildings which result in the unintentinal death of civillians even though they are not targeted. . At least it seems you are honest and admit you have no problem with Hamas rocket attacks at civilians but dont think Israel should defend itself by targeting anything because there is a chance a Palestinian civilian will be hit.

[subsuelo]

28. The problem with your argument

Is this:

Exactly the same logic could be applied towards justifying what Hamas does.

Just consider this example:

"If Israel didn't do this and this and that (kill Palestinians, build on Palestinian land, bomb neighborhoods, etc etc) then Hamas would not have to defend itself"

Exactly the same logic. If you are ready to apply it to Israel, you need to be able to apply it to Hamas, otherwise, well, then you are being hypocritical. It's just as simple as that.

[Dick Dastardly]

59. The same logic can't be applied. Its not even close!

First of all the only reason Israel is there is due to the Palestinian and Arab terror and wars waged against Israel since its begining. It is also disputed territory.

Israel did not have roadblocks set up until the Palestinians launched a terror war.

Israel does not suicide bomb restaurants,busses ect ect as Hamas , it does not lob rockets trying to hit civillians as Hamas. Israel is defending itself from this and does not target civillians. Hamas is attacking not defending itself and targets civilians.


Finally Israel left Gaza and what did it get? Hamas upped their rocket attacks.


I tell you I really dont understand how people can actually even try to compare the two and defend Hamas. It really makes me question the moral compass of that the person

[breakaleg]

72. There is nothing disputed about it. It's occupied territory.

[Behind the Aegis]

74. Some of it is disputed, as well as occupied.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. Where is the "excuse" in what the other poster said?

All I see is a difference in motivation. Perhaps you think all killing is the same. Yes, as one other poster pointed out, dead is dead, but how the person got that way is also a mitigating factor; or do you think it is not?

[Girlieman]

91. Here is a discussion of the excuses:

"The problem with Barak's ostensibly rational argument and Spyer's portrayal of Hamas is that they conveniently ignore the fact that since its victory in the January 2006 democratic elections Hamas has proposed several ceasefire agreements, the latest emerging just last week. In these proposals, Hamas agrees to stop launching missiles at Israeli citizens, in exchange for Israel ending its incursions into Gaza, the assassinations of militants and political leaders, and the economic blockade."

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/neve_gordon/2008/01/hamas_is_not_the_real_issue.html

[breakaleg]

5. If you shoot into a civilian area, you'd be an idiot to be shocked when civilians get killed.

[subsuelo]

7. The only difference between Hamas and Israel's forces

One takes responsibility for their actions - the other makes excuses

[Dick Dastardly]

9. Can you explain?

[subsuelo]

11. Certainly

When Hamas launches an attack they usually claim responsibility for it.

When Israel attacks you hear nothing but excuses for why they had to kill civilians.

Not saying one is necessarily better than the other in this respect, just making note of it.

[pelsar]

13. our phasers just dont work.....

and hamas obviously is the morally superior one here, since not only do they try to kill civilians..but when the succeed the are happy to admit.

there are some of us here actually remember the short history of when israel left gaza and received its first missile barrage and its continuation....during the last two years israel has tried, sonic booms, shells into empty areas, a few shells, even not shooting back......and the result of these different attempts.

kassams....

it kind of ruins the excuse that hamas is merely retaliating.....they actually just want to kill israels.

there are those here who actually believe that israeli electrical workers should risk their lives to bring electricity to the very same govt that is trying to kill them ....i guess your one of them?

and of course its been shown here time and time again, that the preferred scenario is for israel not to shoot back and to lets it civilians be terrorized and killed because.....its better that way.

[Behind the Aegis]

25. Actually...

...it is more common to hear regret that civilians were killed, rather than "they had to kill them." That is in stark contrast to Hamas, who celebrate the deaths of Israelis, well Jewish Israelis.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Actually, the only difference is Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties...

...whereas Hamas thrives on, be they Israeli or Palestinian.

[breakaleg]

15. Tell me, does it make them less dead because Israel tried to avoid them?

[Behind the Aegis]

16. No, but motivation is a huge factor.

There is a difference between walking into a bar and blowing someone away, as opposed to killing someone breaking into your house. Both as still dead. However, it is obvious you are trying to make the two equivalent, perhaps you think the examples I gave are also equivalent.

[breakaleg]

19. What if the person breaking into your house is doing so to retrieve the property you stole from him?

[Behind the Aegis]

20. According to the law, i could still blow him away.

Even if I have something I stole from him or he thinks I stole from him, it doesn't give him the right to break into my house. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[breakaleg]

21. And that's not all that different from here. The guy could have a very good reason for his actions

but it doesn't matter. My point was, there are two sides. And the people suffering under a brutal 40 year occupation also have a "side" in this thing.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. That was your point? There are two sides?

Well, that was a convoluted way of saying it. It does matter why the person died and how the person died. Those are called "circumstance" and they are relevant to the situation.

[breakaleg]

23. In response to your bit about motivation. Palestinians have a motivation to get out from

under Israel's thumb as well as a little dose of retaliation.

They are called "excuses" and Israel and it's supporters are very good at that. But then, a glance at the numbers will show they have had a lot of experience. Practice makes perfect and all that.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Motivation and excuses.

Killing civilians is motivated by the occupation? Somehow that is equivalent to killing civilians in a military operation to stop missiles which are killing your civilians? If so motivated, the PA should try negotiating in good faith, as should the Israelis, if they want to end the endless expenditures to maintain an occupation.

Practice does make perfect. Hamas and its cronies have been launching hundreds of Kassams; they are finally starting to kill innocent civilians. They have also mastered the art of deception in making the deaths of Israeli citizens looked deserved; after all it's all about the occupation. Oh, and do glance at the numbers, you will find, though more Palestinians have died in the conflict since the first Intifada, more Israeli citizens have died percentage wise than Palestinian civilians. So, you are correct, practice does make perfect, because Hamas, et al have perfected mindless killing of civilians, including their own.

[breakaleg]

34. Israel is not stopping the missiles, so the deaths that result are purely for retaliation

and retribution. Nothing noble about that.

[Behind the Aegis]

39. Israel HAS stopped missiles.

"so the deaths that result are purely for retaliation and retribution. Nothing noble about that."

Does that only apply to Israelis?

[breakaleg]

42. Correction. Israel's actions haven't stopped or prevented the attacks from kassams. Their strategy

is not working.

[Behind the Aegis]

43. Correction.

Israel has stopped a number of attacks before they were launched, and in some of those cases innocent civilians lives were lost, in other cases, just those trying to launch the attacks. It is unjustifiable that Israel is expected to have pin-point accuracy and Hamas, well they don't even have to aim at military targets, just "aim and shoot" and they get a 'pass' even if innocent Israelis are maimed and killed.

And since you brought it up, it is apparent you realize that Israeli attacks are to stop kassams, exactly what is Hamas' strategy?

[Crunchy Frog]

82. What if you're in his house

camping out in one of his rooms without his permission?

[Behind the Aegis]

86. Not a valid analogy.

You might want to do a little more research before you attempt to make analogies such as this. But, for lazy argument's sake, if someone is camping out in my house illegally, I can kick them out, but I do not have the right to murder them.

[Crunchy Frog]

87. Okay, I get it.

You can kill somebody if he breaks into your house to retrieve stuff that you stole from him (as you stated above) but you can't kill him if he just breaks into your house to camp out in it without your permission. That makes complete sense.

[Behind the Aegis]

90. No, you don't get it, but it is not surprising at all.

You used a piss-poor analogy. However, your failed analogy indicates you have little knowledge of the current situation. First, you have to "own" the house to have rights. You can have a 'claim' to the house, but if you never owned it, then you will have to make good on owning it. Secondly, once you work out the ownership, then you can deal with "squatters."

[subsuelo]

26. breakaleg you assume too much

(That Israel does indeed try to avoid killing civilians)

[Behind the Aegis]

50. Care to show how Israel intentionally targets civilians?

Or are you saying they just don't care what they hit?

[subsuelo]

63. Sure. For one, start paying attention

Until then, here are some statistics

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties_Data.asp?Category=1

Browse through it, sort it out.

Here are some examples:

Farid Ibrahim Hamad Abu 'Odeh
43 year-old resident of Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, killed on 29.10.2007 in Beit Hanun, North Gaza district, by gunfire. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: A disabled person, he was in his house when soldiers who had come to the agricultural school opened fire at the houses.

Ahmad Mussa Muhammad Abu Bakry
30 year-old resident of al-Bureij Refugee Camp, Deir al-Balah district, killed on 18.08.2006 in the Perimeter Fence, Gaza district, by gunfire. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Mentally disabled, he was killed while walking 300 meters from the Israeli border.

'Abir Bassam 'Abd Rabo 'Aramin
10 year-old resident of 'Anata, al-Quds district, injured on 16.01.2007 in 'Anata, al-Quds district, by gunfire, and died on 19.01.2007. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed while on his way to buy candy at a store next to her school.

Ahmad Abu Tamam
50 year-old, injured on 07.03.2002 in Tulkarm, by gunfire, and died on 08.03.2002. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed during an IDF operation in the city.

Khairieh Ahmad Muhammad Nazzal
52 year-old resident of Qabatiya, Jenin district, killed on 27.11.2006 in Qabatiya, Jenin district, by gunfire. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed when she went to help an injured person next to her house.

Muhammad Salim Suleiman al-Masader
25 year-old resident of al-Maghazi Refugee Camp, Deir al-Balah district, killed on 23.01.2003 in al-Maghazi Refugee Camp, Deir al-Balah district, by gunfire, from a tank. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Man who suffered from mental illness, killed by soldiers during an operation in the refugee camp. Was not armed.

'Imad Majdi a-Sufi
23 year-old resident of Gaza city, injured on 08.03.2002 in Bethlehem, by gunfire, and died on 09.03.2002. Additional information: Killed during an IDF operation in Bethlehem in an incident in which eight civilians were killed.

Nidal al-Fakhuri
28 year-old resident of Hebron, killed on 30.09.2001 in Hebron, by gunfire. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed during a demonstration.

Anas Samir a-Sha'abi
7 year-old resident of Nablus, killed on 04.04.2002 in Nablus, by house demolition. Did not participate in hostilities when killed. Additional information: Killed during "Operation Defensive Shield."

[Behind the Aegis]

65. You are the one needing to "pay attention.,"

Putting up excerpts from that site does not prove your assertion that Israel TARGETS civilians, but it sure does prove Hamas does! You are trying to use stats to prove something and fall short.

[breakaleg]

62. I think Israel is guilty of depraved indifference. I was simply letting him have his assumption.

[Behind the Aegis]

70. And there is a difference between "depraved indifference" and "targeting."

Seems even you understand that point.

[subsuelo]

29. If Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties

There is no way to explain why over HALF Palestinian deaths in 2006 were innocent civilians, and over one third deaths in 2007 where civilians.

No, Israel doesn't try to avoid killing civilians - they kill them with just the same hatred and vengeance as Hamas.

[pelsar]

30. actually the explanation is simple...

something to do with shooting missiles from civilian areas with civilians all around.......something the geneva convention recognizes as putting the fault on the shooters.....

but i guess thats a little detail that gets lost in the hatred needed to blame israel.....

[subsuelo]

31. Blaming the killers for killing people isn't a stretch.

[pelsar]

32. new concept...

dont try killing the israelis.....as the egyptians decided to do and the jordanians and the syrians....works wonders in stopping the killing....you might want to pass the concept on to the Palestinians.....

[subsuelo]

35. New concept - Try applying your standards to both sides

[pelsar]

36. its been tried and proven to work....

with the syrians...with egyptians...with the jordanians....Not with the Palestenian or Hizballa.... Guess you missed it about 5 months ago israel simply stopped shooting back in gaza......didnt change a single kassam

there is a conclusion to draw from that...we call it using western logic.

[subsuelo]

46. The claim "Israel simply stopped shooting back in gaza" is not true

You will find no shortage of Gazans killed by Israeli forces in the following list

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Casualties_Data.asp?Category=1">Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces in the Occupied Territories

2007
December: 63
November: 29
October: 36
September: 34
August: 44
July: 28
June: 33
May: 60
April: 20
March: 9
February: 12
January: 11
Total: 379

2006
December: 14
November: 134
October: 59
September: 31
August: 77
July: 177
June: 41
May: 36
April: 31
March: 15
February: 29
January: 13
Total: 657


What was there -- a whole week or two somewhere that a Palestinian wasn't killed?

[pelsar]

56. try gaza for your stats

for your stats...you seeemed to have missed that detail.... (jan 2007)

its the area where israel

tried something different
withdrew
removed settlements
stopped the cycle of violence
made a dramatic move....

and got kassams.....

[subsuelo]

61. Gaza is included in the stats

[Shaktimaan]

75. But so is the west bank.

The ceasefire was in Gaza alone.

[pelsar]

79. perhaps you dont know the geography?

1 Yousef Abdelqader Ramallah 04.01.2007 Israeli attack in Ramallah
2 Khalil Mostafa Darwish Albairouti Ramallah 04.01.2007 Israeli attack in Ramallah
3 Ala'a Hamran Ramallah 04.01.2007 Israeli attack in Ramallah
4 Jamal Jamil Jweiles Ramallah 04.01.2007 Israeli attack in Ramallah
5 Abir Bassam Aramin 10 Jerusalem 18.01.2007 She had been shooting in the head with an echo bomb on last Tuesday cased her to die
6 Mohannad Abdrabboh Ghandour 33 Nablus 18.01.2007 Master in Katayeb Alawdah

http://www.phrmg.org/aqsa/Jan2007.htm

nothing in gaza

[subsuelo]

80. Oh, ok. One whole month and no Gazans killed you think proves a point.

Thank goodness for that whole month (out of how many years?) - what possible argument would you have without it?

Yes, Israel graciously let Gazans live for roughly one month, instead turning their sights on killing West Bank Palestinians instead. And the Qassam rockets didn't stop despite the grace period.

Sorry to burst the bubble but:

This proves nothing.

[Vegasaurus]

81. Here's a news flash

Let's see what would happen if the Palestinians stopped shooting rockets, stopped trying to blow up crossings, sneak in weapons, blow up civilians, capture soldiers. Try it for a single week. If there was a single response from the IDF I'd be the first one condemning it.

[pelsar]

84. it proves lots of things...

first and foremost it show how shoddy your research/knowledge is.....it took me all of 10 seconds to find it.

it showed another attempt by israel to do something different (that so many people keep telling israel they "have to do")

it showed how Hamas doesnt even bother responding to such attempts by israel...they kept trying to murder israelis

and its shows that when people blame israel, whatever israel does short of self destruction, nothing will satisfy them

[Behind the Aegis]

40. In populated areas, civilians casualties will occur.

The Israelis are not intentionally trying to kill Palestinian civilians not directly invovled with fighting. So can you explain why, in 2006, 73% of Israeli deaths were civilians and in 2007, 63%?

[razors edge]

6. The responsibilities that come with occupation

are a real bitch, aren't they?

The Israelis have already said this attack was in retaliation for the mass rocket attack that they bragged about as being a response to their bombing of a high profile target, and that the mass rocket attack proved they had hit someone important.

Israel is fine with it, so lets all just get over it, it all going to happen again tomorrow and we can then argue who was avenging who at that point.

See, its simple, what happens today is blamed on those you hate for what they did yesterday, get it?

That dog is chasing a tail that rotted off 60 years ago.

[Behind the Aegis]

18. So Israel is the only one with responsibilities?

Fascinating.

[subsuelo]

27. Not what was said.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. I understand that.

But that is how it looks.

[razors edge]

58. They are the only ones

with the responsibilities of an occupier in the mess.

[Behind the Aegis]

64. Meaningless.

[razors edge]

66. That says a lot.

[Behind the Aegis]

67. It does. You only see one side has having responsibility.

[razors edge]

68. I never said that, and you know it.

You even admitted it right here on this thread.

Having a bad day?

[Behind the Aegis]

69. I said you didn't say it but it is how it looks and with your last post...

...it does look like that is what you are saying. Israel is the only responsible party. Care to make a definitive statement that Hamas, and others, are also responsible for the violence in the area?

[razors edge]

71. Go back to post #6

and see if you can't find what you are looking for, I see it clear as day.

[Behind the Aegis]

73. Then point it out.

All I am seeing is that you feel Israel is the only one responsible for the violence. But you do have lots of "they's", so is one referring to Hamas?

[razors edge]

83. First of all

my post #6 is simple and straight forward. Your inability to understand it is not my problem, nor is your attempt to spin it into something outside the post I presented.

What you see as my feeling is irrelevant, unless what I present as being your feeling is.

To quote someone else "Meaningless".

[Behind the Aegis]

85. Can't show your work, can you?

Not surprised.

[razors edge]

88. Wanting me to do your work for you?

Not surprised.

[Behind the Aegis]

89. No. You said you can show it. It is obvious you cannot.

If it is a matter of a misplaced antecedent, then you could have shown it two posts back. Have you delayed enough now to figure out what you are going to do?

[razors edge]

93. Point out where

where I said "I can show it" and we can go from there.

[razors edge]

95. BTW

I don't delay, I work for a living so my tax dollars can be taken from me without my consent to continue the carnage.

[Scurrilous]

33. Four Palestinian children killed in IAF strike in northern Gaza

<snip>

"Four children were killed in an Israel Air Force strike in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials said Thursday, bringing the total death count in the day's fighting to eight Palestinians.

Dr. Moaiya Hassanain, a Health Ministry official, said the victims were civilians under the age of 16. Three of them were members of the same family.

Earlier Thursday, the Israel Defense Forces killed at least eight Palestinian militants during operations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, a day after Prime Minister Ehud Olmert vowed that Israel's response to the latest deadly barrage of Qassam rockets would be particularly harsh."

more

[Phx_Dem]

37. Hamas leader 'thanks God' for son's death

Hamas leader Khalil al-Haya fondly kissed the bloodied head of his son Hamza in a Gaza morgue Thursday, saying he was proud that his son had given his life for the Hamas cause and joined a long line of family members killed in the conflict with Israel.

Hamza died in an Israeli air strike Thursday morning as he led a squad firing rockets against Israeli towns, Hamas said.

''I thank God for this gift,'' Khalil al-Haya said. ''This is the 10th member of my family to receive the honor of martyrdom.'' Al-Haya has himself escaped attempts on his life, including an Israeli strike last May that killed two of his brothers and six other relatives gathered at a family home. Al-Haya was not in the building at the time.

''This is a part of our people's path and, God willing, our people will achieve victory,'' Khalil al-Haya said.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3512689,00.html

[azurnoir]

41. Yup I guess that makes it alright then Israel can

kill Palestinian kids at will they don't value life like Israeli's do:sarcasm:,

what no similar "quotes" from the parents of the 6 month old, wow I am truly surprised.

This what the 10th family member lost in the conflict, a response like that under the circumstances is truly not a surprise after so long an amount of fatalism does set in and the statement made by the father could be taken as an no matter how you hurt us we will prevail statement but to see would be inclusive of seeing Palestinians as human and in recent weeks I have begun to believe that for some "Israel supporters" here that is not possible.

[Vegasaurus]

44. There is no fatalism to this comment:

''I thank God for this gift,'' Khalil al-Haya said. ''This is the 10th member of my family to receive the honor of martyrdom.''

You don't "thank God" for the gift of the loss of your child's life, except if you think that killing Israelis is an "honor", which this father, and far too many other Palestinian parents, seem to believe.

[azurnoir]

48. You do not want to see it

and I do understand why

[Behind the Aegis]

45. Do you see similar reactions from the Israelis?

For that matter, when Palestinian civilians are killed do you see Israeli children passing out candy and sweets? Adults firing weapons in the air? Joyously taking credit for "the kill?"

[azurnoir]

47. No not candy

but do see Palestinians presenting Israeli bodies as war trophies or Palestinian children writing death wishes on missiles?

[Behind the Aegis]

49. Oh yes, have seen Palestinians presenting Israeli bodies as trophies...

...actually they waved them about like flags outside a 2-story window. And writing on missiles? No, haven't seen that, only children's shows where "bunny rabbits" call for children to come to martyrdom, kill Danes and Israelis, and take back occupied Palestine, including cities like Haifa.

[sepulveda]

103. jimmy carter's influence

"only children's shows where "bunny rabbits" call for children to come to martyrdom"

clearly, carter had an effect on them. they realize the power of the bunny!

[Phx_Dem]

51. Ignoring your sarcasm and snark for a sec

How does fatalism explain the father's comments?

I would say it's much more likely that his comments spring from an unconscious coping mechanism used to ameliorate the cognitive dissonance that he feels. In other words he needs to blame someone so his son's death was worth it. His comments reinforce that belief.

[azurnoir]

52. Different wording same idea

except that to me the fathers comments came also from a martyr point of view which by it's very nature fatalistic.

[Vegasaurus]

53. Untrue

One chooses to be a terrorist and martyr. Fate (if one believes in such) happens inevitably, by a force that has it "predetermined".

So, one is a choice, the other isn't. Thus, equating the father's reaction to his son's martyrdom as somehow "fatalistic" is incorrect. His son did not have to choose to live the life as a terrorist.

[azurnoir]

54. From the posted article I got the impression

the father was the terrorist and the son's death was not because of his or his fathers actions but "collateral" of the Israeli raid, as were the deaths of the other kids in North Gaza.

[Phx_Dem]

55. Quote

Hamas leader Khalil al-Haya fondly kissed the bloodied head of his son Hamza in a Gaza morgue Thursday, saying he was proud that his son had given his life for the Hamas cause and joined a long line of family members killed in the conflict with Israel.

edit: other than the father saying his son died for the "cause", we don't know.

[Ordr]

76. Israeli attacks kill baby in Gaza

Is this any different from a savage strapping a bomb to himself and murdering civilians?
Nonsensical violence goes both ways.

[Vegasaurus]

77. Did the IDF intentionally kill a baby?

No.

Does the suicide bomber intentionally kill as many civilians as humanly possible (and himself, in the process)? Yes.

Therein lies the difference.

[Ordr]

78. Did the IDF intentionally kill a baby?

More than likely not, but Israel generally hasn't been known to make every possible effort to ensure that civilians will be unharmed by their actions. I do, however, believe that Israel does have the right to defend against the groups who do intentionally target innocents.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

92. Is it Israeli extremists who are responsible? No. it's the elected government.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

[oberliner]

96. The baby was actually killed by Palestinians

Apparently, a Palestinian-fired rocket fell short of its target, killing the baby.

[azurnoir]

97. A link please

This is the second time I have seen you post this, do not know which post was first but neither had a link.

[oberliner]

98. Associated Press

From the AP story:

Shortly before midnight Friday in the northern town of Beit Hanoun, a 13-month-old girl was killed by shrapnel. Hamas blamed Israel, but residents said a militant rocket fell short and landed near the baby's house. The day's violence snowballed from that point on.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080302/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians;_ylt=AlPzokRQR7OpWdd7c7Dslfms0NUE

[Violet_Crumble]

99. Different baby?

The link you gave was about a thirteen month old girl, but the one in the OP was a six month old boy and the home he died in was next to the govt building that Israeli helicopters fired rockets at...

Also, if these are two different babies, the link you gave doesn't say definately that militant rocket shrapnel was the cause. Yet you seem to be certain it's what happened...

[oberliner]

100. The original link in the OP (from The Age) no longer mentions a baby

You are right, it's all very confusing. There seem to be a multitude of contradictory reports about numbers of casualties, children killed, ages of those killed, etc. If you find any more definitive info, please let me know.

It does appear that there was a Palestinian child who was killed by Palestinian rocket fire. Reports do not seem conclusive as to the age of that child.

That any children have been killed in this conflict is tragic beyond words.

[Violet_Crumble]

101. Yeah, the Breaking News section of The Age does change the content in its urls...

From what I can work out, there's two different babies who have been killed. I agree with your last sentence totally, and I only hope out of all this current chaos and carnage a ceasefire might hopefully emerge...

[azurnoir]

102. you tube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQEZ2ad8z20

I do not speak Arabic but the baby appears to be a boy and about 6 months

[Tom Joad]

94. The War on Children...Palestinian and Israeli

The war on children
Violence turns Israeli kids' lives upside down
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/24/INGBBN1VKM1.DTL&hw=Israel+children&sn=004&sc=458


Gaza kids who suffer post-traumatic stress
Children becoming assassination victims

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/24/INGBBN1VKM1.DTL&hw=Israel+children&sn=004&sc=458

I posted these stories back when they appeared. Not many seemed to notice. So it goes.

The point here is that the brunt of this occupation is felt by children on both sides, and we owe it to then to do everything in our power to bring real peace with justice. So, yes, it does bother me that US politicians seem content with supporting the status quo in the Middle East, more concerned with political expediency than doing what it will take to end the violence and the injustice that is at the root of the violence.

Not only should we mourn the 1,100 children (120 Israeli children and the 980 Palestinian children) who have been killed in the conflict since the year 2000, but also remember that for many more this impacts their whole life in ways that are not immediately visible.